New saltwater toxic?

[pelagic]

Hello all, I've raised a thousand ocellaris clownfish, on and off, since 2014. The last couple of years have not been real successful. Mortality after hatch has been 100% by morning. I've been trying various solutions to this. One of them is using saltwater from the parents' tank, sometimes a 50/50 mix with new saltwater. Survival rate has been better but most die in three days and only a dozen grow to maturity. Using only new saltwater lately results in 100% fatality by next morning of hatch. I have aeriated the new saltwater for several days and the pH was within 0.3 of the parents' water. Their water was 8.5 and the new saltwater is 8.2 I tried adjusting the new saltwater up to 8.5 and a massive precipitate resulted so I have been staying with 8.2 pH.

My question is, what is it about new saltwater after aeriation, temperature adjustment, several day wait, etc. that could be toxic to larval fish? About ten years ago Tim Hovanec of Instant Ocean argued there is nothing wrong with IO salt. I have only used IO salt the last few decades.

Thanks for any input!

 

[brandon429]

Fascinating, can't wait to see responses. That one stumps me.

 

[griss]

Could it be a bad batch of salt? Has all the salt you're having issues with been from the same batch, bucket, bag?

I used Coralife for decades and suddenly, I was losing corals, having algae issues, etc. I was also having trouble with extremely low alkalinity in the tank. I testing a newly mixed batch of water and it was sky high in Ca and super low in Alk. I switched to a different bucket (different batch number as well) of Coralife, mixed up a batch and tested...this batch also had super high CA and low Alk. I've since switched to IO and have not had any issues.

Do you typically stir/mix up the salt mix before adding it to water? My understanding is that salt mix can settle with some elements concentrating near the bottom of the container and others nears the top. I keep my salt in buckets and roll the bucket around before using it the first time and periodically prior to subsequent use.

 

[Uncle99]

what was survival rate to metamorphosis before the last few years?
And the survival rate post meta?
How are fry transferred and what nutrition is available immediately?

 

[pelagic]

Hi Brandon429, I give the critters all the help I can but there is a lot unknown.

Gris, I am using the same salt in six tanks of other fish and they are doing okay. Seems like it is just larvae that have trouble. I use IO salt in the 200 gallon box, the bags lay flat so settling doesn't seem to be a problem as I use the salt from one end of the bag to the other.

Uncle99, when I had better luck, I could raise 35 to 135 larvae to full size out of batches of about 900 eggs. Survival rate post-meta has been good then and now. I pull the flower pot of eggs the night of hatch, they are exposed to air briefly, but I never had a problem doing this back then. I feed rotifers using algae paste the morning after hatch if any are alive.

Tim Hovanec's IO and larvae talk was in 2005, my how time flies.

Used saltwater seems to work better. Instant Ocean isn't quite instant for me.

Another problem I'll post is about a tank I set up using rock I stored in water from a previous tank I took down. Using the same salt that works in five other tanks, I can't get much of anything to live in that tank. Two royal grammas are alive, one eats, the other never eats and both stay the same size! All other fish and corals I try are not happy so I take them out to another tank. It is just a tank, water, salt, circulation pump, heater, LED lights and Remora foam fractionator.

 

[Uncle99]

Hi Brandon429, I give the critters all the help I can but there is a lot unknown.

Gris, I am using the same salt in six tanks of other fish and they are doing okay. Seems like it is just larvae that have trouble. I use IO salt in the 200 gallon box, the bags lay flat so settling doesn't seem to be a problem as I use the salt from one end of the bag to the other.

Uncle99, when I had better luck, I could raise 35 to 135 larvae to full size out of batches of about 900 eggs. Survival rate post-meta has been good then and now. I pull the flower pot of eggs the night of hatch, they are exposed to air briefly, but I never had a problem doing this back then. I feed rotifers using algae paste the morning after hatch if any are alive.

Tim Hovanec's IO and larvae talk was in 2005, my how time flies.

Used saltwater seems to work better. Instant Ocean isn't quite instant for me.

Another problem I'll post is about a tank I set up using rock I stored in water from a previous tank I took down. Using the same salt that works in five other tanks, I can't get much of anything to live in that tank. Two royal grammas are alive, one eats, the other never eats and both stay the same size! All other fish and corals I try are not happy so I take them out to another tank. It is just a tank, water, salt, circulation pump, heater, LED lights and Remora foam fractionator.

And just to check, when the fry are transferred, do you use an air stone to lightly fan the eggs until they hatch?
I use a screen that only fry can get through and a pinpoint white light that turns on after dark so the fry all run to the light. Then the parents are transferred to the next tank, the screen is pulled and fry stay in the original waters.

Doesn’t seem like any process issue as obviously you have a ton of experience and like your suggesting, maybe a contamination when water changes or foods added.

 

[brandon429]

What about source water

Any chance membranes are letting fractional impure water pass that you use to make up all new saltwater when that was tested? In old water that source water will have sat a long time and converted or diluted x irritant

Perhaps it's below threshold for corals/ inverts tox but fry will be the ultimate chloramine / bad thing pass thru leak test

Can you rule out source water issues