New to hobby, new to Ich

V996

New member
First, this forum is a treasure chest of info, been lurking for several months since we started our first tank, so thank you to everyone who contributes. Not a very positive first post but here goes:

Short version: 116g set up about 4 months ago with no expenses spared, chiller, dosing pump, etc. After numerous coral purchases, the wife wanted anemones for the clowns, so we set up a 42g (maybe a 45?) that just finished cycling this week and just yesterday received it's first residents, rock flowers and one BTA. Everything has been done by our lfs, as we knew batter than to attempt any of this on our own. Things went great until they didn't. Ich outbreak killed all fish in the 116 but 3 clowns so I went to the lfs, picked up a quarantine tank, filled with live water and moved the 3. They're being treated with copper right now, fingers crossed, 2 days in.

The plan: Move the 3 clowns to the 42g anemone tank once they're finished with quarantine and leave the 116g tank fallow for a LONG time.

There's still a high fin goby that has somehow survived in the 116g and as of this morning shows no sign of ich. He will be impossible to catch. This has been such a painful experience to fail at caring for these fish, we plan to leave the tank fallow for possibly the next 12 months, but that may change based upon what I'm reading regarding clams doing better with at least a single fish to help add ammonia to the tank, the whole clean up crew now needs to be fed, etc. The fire and cleaner shrimp I'm actually feeding brine and mysis with a syringe which provides me some consolation after losing most of the fish. The other issue is two of the clowns are paired and the small lightning maroon male is being pushed around by the pair, so the 3 together in the 42g was never the plan, but will have to do for now.

The question: If the goby survives the entire year, does it allow for the propagation of Ich? I guess my question is can the parasite survive with only the single host, lifecycle after lifecycle without killing the single host? The ticking clock matters more for my sanity than it does for the purchase of another fish. Trust me, after this ordeal I'm in absolutely no rush.
 
Welcome to the forum. Glad you got the QT process going. Yes, you do have to get the goby out. He can continue to be the host although he’s living through it or showing some form of immunity. Try a fish trap next to his favorite hiding spot.

Depending on the dimensions of your tank , it might be easier to start over after disinfecting everything.

Also, BTAs should be introduced after 6months when the new tank is maturing.
 
Welcome to the forum. Glad you got the QT process going. Yes, you do have to get the goby out. He can continue to be the host although he's living through it or showing some form of immunity. Try a fish trap next to his favorite hiding spot.

Depending on the dimensions of your tank , it might be easier to start over after disinfecting everything.

Also, BTAs should be introduced after 6months when the new tank is maturing.

Just ordered the fish trap and will give it a shot.
Regarding the BTA, I've come to realize a fish store sells fish. We've made several mistakes by not being patient. That ended this week, but unfortunately the BTA is in the 2 week old tank now.
Tank likely won't be broken down at this point. See pic
 

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Agree about needing to remove all fish, including the goby. Then the fallow period can start. 6 weeks is sufficient for velvet; 76 days for ich.

Treat with copper in QT for 4 weeks.
 
Agree about needing to remove all fish, including the goby. Then the fallow period can start. 6 weeks is sufficient for velvet; 76 days for ich.

Treat with copper in QT for 4 weeks.

Apologies for the inability to follow direction, but I'm curious by nature. :hmm5:
Trying to wrap my head around the stages of ich and the possibility it could persist in the tank, say for a year, if there is a single living fish in the tank.
Again, I'm new to this and don't want this thread to spiral into the debate I've seen in other threads regarding whether or not ich is ever-present in all fish. I believe that's been covered here thoroughly and I do appreciate everyone's contribution in those discussions.

I'll make the assumption that the parasite isn't smart enough to harm but not kill the single fish in order to perpetually cycle, so if the single Goby were to live for 6 months and show no signs, but could somehow be a "carrier" or "immune" to ich, then this suggests a stage of ich that can lay dormant in perpetuity on a host fish that is immune to it, and then begin it's cycle once another fish is introduced to the tank...
Of course, if my Goby gets ich and dies, that's the end of the experiment.
 
I'll make the assumption that the parasite isn't smart enough to harm but not kill the single fish in order to perpetually cycle, so if the single Goby were to live for 6 months and show no signs, but could somehow be a "carrier" or "immune" to ich, then this suggests a stage of ich that can lay dormant in perpetuity on a host fish that is immune to it, and then begin it's cycle once another fish is introduced to the tank...
Of course, if my Goby gets ich and dies, that's the end of the experiment.

The parasites feed on the fish without regard to whether or not they kill the fish. What is likely to happen is the goby will serve as a never ending "œreservoir" for the parasites, but isn't enough of a food source to allow them to explode in population. So, the parasites remain in the tank at a low concentration. However, once you introduce more fish into the tank the food source increases and the parasites multiply to a lethal concentration.
 
The parasites feed on the fish without regard to whether or not they kill the fish. What is likely to happen is the goby will serve as a never ending "œreservoir" for the parasites, but isn't enough of a food source to allow them to explode in population. So, the parasites remain in the tank at a low concentration. However, once you introduce more fish into the tank the food source increases and the parasites multiply to a lethal concentration.

At this point, this is (hopefully) a 12 month experiment so I may better understand ich.
Within a matter of 2 weeks, the parasites killed 10 fish, including 3 neon gobies (I think that's what they were called) that were supposed to help clean it up. I suppose it's possible that the same parasites in the same tank could have difficulty finding the only fish left in the tank, but from my anecdotal experience in this tank, they're very efficient at finding fish.
I suppose I'm hung up on the semantics of it. If the goby is infected with the parasite which allows it to perpetuate even at a minimal rate, then it is not "immune" and will likely die over time. If fish can indeed be immune to this, then every parasite in the tank should be dead in 60 days regardless of if the immune fish is there or not.
So I'm guessing your answer to my original question is that there is not a mysterious stage in which ich can "live" on a host without infecting and killing it, but rather the tomites (I think) can be very inefficient at finding fish leading to the death of most of the tomites. The possibility of one single tomite finding the fish is enough to propagate the cycle but at a very slow rate, allowing the fish to possibly survive while sustaining minimal damage each cycle. Sound right?
This seems possible. Given how quickly it wiped out the whole tank, not likely, but it does seem possible.
 
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