New to the hobby in need of some help

2

240addiction

New member
My wife and I are looking for some advice on our new tank. We want to keep a reef tank. The purchases we have already made are now being second guessed because there are so many different opinions of how to do things. It seems like everyone has a different opinion and there is very little consensus on how to do anything since all tanks are different!

This is the current setup:
1) 65 gallon DSA reef ready tank (installed in CRT TV nook)
  • 20 lbs of caribsea arag alive fiji pink live sand and 40 lbs Natures Ocean Samoa #0 pink sand
  • 60 lbs of cured Real Reef Rock
  • Aqua Illuminations Hydra LED light with wireless director.
  • 2 x 850 GPH Hydor Koralia Evolution Aquarium Circulation Pumps
2) 20 gallon long sump with custom baffles
  • Order of flow skimmer (low, high, low baffle configuration), refugium (low, high baffle configuration), return pump
  • Sicce Syncra 4.0 pump
  • Vertex Omega 150 Protien skimmer (just sitting in the sump not actually running yet)
  • 19 watt CREE LED light with Home depot clamp on bulb reflector thing (for future use on fuge plants and PH leveling at night)
  • 2 x Colbalt Neo-therm heaters set to 78°F (100 Watt and 150 Watt)

Here is our timeline so far:
12/31/2013: We purchased the rock (still in the box from Real Reef Rock shipping) and sand and then had a few leak problems with the tank, so they sat for two days before getting into the tank.

1/1/2014 - 1/2/2014: Mixed the water - The tank was setup using Aquavitro Salinity salt mix and my own RO/DI water (new air, water, ice Typhoon III system (produces 0-2 TDS using H&M dual TDS meter)). Both batches of water were mixed to 1.0245 using DD H2 Ocean Salinity refractometer.

1/2/2014: Put the egg crate then the rocks then the sand and then the water in the tank. We epoxied most of the rocks together and will probably expoxy a few more just to be on the safe side. The non-live sand was washed, but not the live sand (the label said not to).

1/3/2014: I had to put in a larger Durso stand pipe Tee (1" to 1.25") to allow me to increase flow a bit more.

1/9/2014: I did a 10% water change. I missed that you are normally not supposed to during a cycle.

1/14/2014: I noticed that some Diatom Algae has started to cover all of the sand in the tank and I reduced the lighting schedule on my Hydra to about 4 hours during the day and nothing else. I was previously running it 24x7 (very low at night though).

We have been up and running for about 3 weeks and I have been doing water tests using my Nutrafin Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate test kits and checking PH using the Salifert kit. I have yet to see anything but traces of anything on these tests. Ammonia has always been less than .1 and nothing on both Nitrites and Nitrates. PH is hard to tell, but it's somewhere between 7.8 and 8.2 (it is always a dark brown-gray-dark green color).

The QT tank is 20 gallons. It has a LED Marineland light, HOB 150 biowheel filter (new wheel and filter (carbon was removed)), and 100 watt heater. It also has an air pump stone. The QT tank was setup on 1/14/2013 using 1.023 salt water and is being maintained at 79°F. I noticed ammonia up to 1.2 within 4 days and it has just spiked and appears to be starting to decline. I am also slowly raising the SG every day when I top off with RO/DI water. I did use a shrimp to help with the cycle, but the smell was too much after 24 hours and I threw it out.

Finally to our questions:
1) After reading some opinions on the Real Reef Rock, I am not sure there is enough surface area. We tried to place the rocks so that they have a lot of water flow and a lot of surface area. However, they are not nearly as porous as real rock and that concerns me. I was thinking about ordering some live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater. Do I need to get more rock? If so, do I need to get another 60lbs, or less? I understand that particular rock will have some un-wanted hitchhikers that could be placed in the QT to get rid of those unwanted hitchhikers. I hope to not find and any mantis shrimp or unwanted crabs but if they are QT I don't see a big deal. The review of the rock seems to be very good.
2) We didn't wash the live sand - is that going to mess anything up in the future? I think it's too late to do anything about it. The sand we got is pretty fine - is that ok?
3) What should be added to the refugium and when? I was thinking about a DSB and then maybe some live rock rubble and Chateo. I don't have a ton of room so I think it will have to be two out of the three. Which two should I pick, and when do they need to be added?
4) Should I expect the tank cycle if it hasn't yet? It has been a few weeks and still there has not been any ammonia. How much longer should I wait?
5) The pH is a little low. Will that go up, or do we need to do anything to help it along? The LFS suggested we buy something for it but then we read online that we couldn't use it on reefs.
6) INVERTS! We are just not sure where to even start. Some people love hermits and emerald crabs, but others say they are terrible. Are hermits and crabs really that destructive? Others say to avoid crabs and just get snails? If so, we have read about the turbo snails, but what other kinds of snails should we get? How many of each, and when to add them? I don't think adding them all at once is a good idea as there isn't that much food in the tank yet.
7) When is a good time to start the skimmer? Should I start breaking it in or wait until I am done with the cycle.

I appreciate your opinion and any advice you can offer. I have read a lot, but it becomes overwhelming when there is no specific formula for anything.

Here are some pictures of the tank and sump.




Thanks,

Paul and Jo
 
1) If you decide to get Live Rock I would suggest only 15-20 lbs more for your tank. IMO it looks really good with the rock in there now. I also tend to like less rock and more open space.

2) You shouldn't rinse live sand...if you used regular aquarium sand you would want to rinse it to get the dust off but its not necessary to do so.

3) Refugium is up to your discretion. I would suggest sand and some live rock before the cycle is complete b/c otherwise it will cause a mini cycle. I would put chaeto in after the cycle or near the end.

4) the test usually don't lie but if you are unsure you can try adding a frozen grocery store shrimp in to spike the ammonia...When fully cycled the ammonia might spike slightly for a day or two and then turn into nitrite followed by nitrate and final into nitrogen. The chaeto will help with nitrates.

5) I wouldn't worry about ph unless its below 7.8. The more important tests for a reef tank are Magnesium, Alkalinity and Calcium. You however don't need to test these until you get coral in your tank.

6) Once you get algae and ammonia and nitrites are at 0 will want to get a CUC. I like hermits and they have been model citizens. They are great algae cleaners but some other you will need Nassarius, Turbo, Astraea, Cerith.

7) I would start the skimmer when you start to see algae.
 
Wow, that's a lot to take in all in 1 post. I'll answer what I remember since I'm on my phone.


For your cycle, I would recommend live beneficial bacteria like sechem's stability. I think you kick off the cycle with the shrimp but I would get more beneficial bacteria before you stock the tank. Don't stock all at one time because you'll find yourself in the position where you have met your limit and you'll want to add more.

For pH, I would check your alkalinity. Its a buffer to keep your pH stable.

I would go ahead and keep the skimmer on.

If you get a clean up crew, start off with a few of each like Turbo snails, hermits, ceriths, nerites, astras, etc. As your tank ages you'll get specific creatures to rid particular things.
 
240addiction said:
4) Should I expect the tank cycle if it hasn't yet? It has been a few weeks and still there has not been any ammonia. How much longer should I wait?
Click to expand...

Follow Question:
Did you ever toss a frozen shrimp into the tank to give the live bacteria something to feed on?
 
I like your tank setup!! Using the TV nook was a killer idea.

I agree with nlgill13 on all questions. Starting the skimmer sooner will help prevent or minimize algae/diatoms, but the important thing right now is to establish a full colony of beneficial bacteria and the skimmer removes their food too.

You didn't ask so I'll ask, is that enough light? It seems like a narrow band of light, you may want to increase the coverage at some point so you have happier corals. Just so you know this is coming from a dude who only has softies but the reason for that is that I have a small light like yours seems to be; I plan a major lighting upgrade before I get into real reef stuff.

You have really done your homework! Don't fret; no matter how much you prepare you will make some "mistake" or another. It's part of the fun! This hobby can be unpredictable even after reading all the books and forums and blogs out there. Don't stress too much! :)
 
Oh! I can see from your original post that your TV is going to be right there too. Might be a little distracting, especially when you upgrade the aquarium lights. But other than that, I think it's a cool use of the space and you've really thought out the possible pitfalls! Reaching behind the tank isn't essential, but safety is. As long as you're able to easily reach the power supply and there is no chance of salt creeping into the sockets or dripping onto anything electrical I think it'll be fine--and neat-looking!
 
1) After reading some opinions on the Real Reef Rock, I am not sure there is enough surface area. We tried to place the rocks so that they have a lot of water flow and a lot of surface area. However, they are not nearly as porous as real rock and that concerns me. I was thinking about ordering some live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater. Do I need to get more rock? If so, do I need to get another 60lbs, or less? I understand that particular rock will have some un-wanted hitchhikers that could be placed in the QT to get rid of those unwanted hitchhikers. I hope to not find and any mantis shrimp or unwanted crabs but if they are QT I don't see a big deal. The review of the rock seems to be very good.
Don't worry about the rock. You have plenty. The old one pound of rock per gallon thing is obsolete.
2) We didn't wash the live sand - is that going to mess anything up in the future? I think it's too late to do anything about it. The sand we got is pretty fine - is that ok?
No will not harm anything either way. You don't rinse live sand.
3) What should be added to the refugium and when? I was thinking about a DSB and then maybe some live rock rubble and Chateo. I don't have a ton of room so I think it will have to be two out of the three. Which two should I pick, and when do they need to be added?
That refugium will be too small to really do anything other than look cool and have some copepods and stuff running around in it. Rock rubble and Chaeto are cool. DSB is fine. I don't see any reason you can't run all three. With the sugar fine Oolitic sand you don't have to go super deep and will still get a little benefit from it.
4) Should I expect the tank cycle if it hasn't yet? It has been a few weeks and still there has not been any ammonia. How much longer should I wait?
There has to be an ammonia source to start the cycle. You can do the dead shrimp thing which will take quite a while or you can be a gangster and buy a bottle of Bio-Spira and toss it in with a couple peaceful damsels like blue/yellow tails or talbot's.
5) The pH is a little low. Will that go up, or do we need to do anything to help it along? The LFS suggested we buy something for it but then we read online that we couldn't use it on reefs.
Your LFS will suggest you buy something for everything. That's their job. Do some reading in the chemistry forum here and have your mind blown. But seriously, at this point no need to worry about PH or try to chase numbers. Perfect numbers are not as important as stability. A box of baking soda for a coupe bucks at the grocery store will take care of your ph but please read about that before doing it.
6) INVERTS! We are just not sure where to even start. Some people love hermits and emerald crabs, but others say they are terrible. Are hermits and crabs really that destructive? Others say to avoid crabs and just get snails? If so, we have read about the turbo snails, but what other kinds of snails should we get? How many of each, and when to add them? I don't think adding them all at once is a good idea as there isn't that much food in the tank yet.
You're best cleanup crew will be yours and your lady friends regular maintenance routine. Keeping your phosphates and nitrate as close to zero as possible more will do more for you than any critter.
The whole clean up crew thing is highly overrated and most LFS and people will tell you to get a ton of them and in the end they starve to death, kill each other, and kill or knock over your corals. I stick to true reef hermits like the scarlet reef hermits, and halloween hermits and only one or two of each for your size tank. Stick with true reef snails like Astrea and better yet Trochus. Avoid Turbos or margaritas. Once your a week or so into your algae bloom cycle add a few snails. I usually keep one emerald crab in my reefs. I buy them when they're small and give them away or back to the LFS when they start getting beastly. They are good algae eaters but will be problematic if they get big and don't have enough to eat. Two or three Nassarius snails are great for eating left over food as is a smooth legged serpent star. The serpent stars are awesome fun to watch and great for eating leftover food. Your instinct about not adding everything at once is spot on. Spread out the love over time. Delayed gratification is a lost art.
7) When is a good time to start the skimmer? Should I start breaking it in or wait until I am done with the cycle.
I'd start the skimmer as soon as you start your cycle. You can also start your weekly or bi-weekly water change routine then

Good Luck!:wave:
 
Microcosmos said:
You didn't ask so I'll ask, is that enough light? It seems like a narrow band of light, you may want to increase the coverage at some point so you have happier corals. Just so you know this is coming from a dude who only has softies but the reason for that is that I have a small light like yours seems to be; I plan a major lighting upgrade before I get into real reef stuff.
Click to expand...

We were planning a second Aqua Illuminations Hydra later to offer full tank coverage.
 
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