+ New To The Hobby

[Ethics]

Hey guys,

I've become really interested in Salt Water tanks recently and would love to give them a try.

I figured I'd start with something small to get familiar with everyhting, and if I find myself wanting more I can always upgrade.

I was thinking a 5, maybe 10 gallon tank.

I would like to keep a few corals in there, maybe a fish or 2 as well.

Now I don't know a single thing about salt water, I've been reading through the topics, and will continue through the following days to get some better knowledge onthe topic, but meanwhile maybe you guys can help answer some of the question I have.

For a 5 Gallong Tank, what equipment would I need, what supplies, to get me started.

Do I cycle the tank for a month like a freshwater tank?

How expensive will it be to get a 5 gallon reef tank going?

Those are just some of the questions I could think of now, I will post more as I come across them.

Thanks,
Mario

 

[sir_dudeguy]

hey, i posted this in the other thread of yours, but i'll put it here for convenience lol.

oh, and WELCOME TO REEFCENTRAL!!!

actually, if this is your first saltwater tank...5 gallons isnt really a good idea. Yes it is much cheaper, but its also much harder to maintain the correct levels in smaller volumes of water...so instead of starting w/something small to get familiar w/the hobby, try and get as big of a tank that you can. This will make it much easier. I would say try the bigger tank first, and then if you have success, try a smaller one down the road.

but it can be done of course, and if you're careful and keep up on it, you shouldnt have too many problems

to answer your questions tho...

All you will really need for a 5 gallon is about 5-10 pounds of live rock. This is your filter. NO OTHER FILTER IS NEEDED. Many people getting into the hobby think that they have to have some really fancy filter...i say nay...imo filters are more often bad than good...the media (stuff that you put in them) can build up nitrates fairly easily and cause lots of problems...where live rock doesnt, and its a completely natural way to filter...

so all you need for filtration is live rock and FLOW. i'd say get a powerhead that pushes out about 100 gallons per hour...that will give you 20 times the total volume turnover per hour, which is a good range to be in. But in a tank this small, imo a better bet would be to get bigger hob filter that pushes out about 100 gph and just run it empty....something like an aquaclear hang on filter would work good...the reason i say get the hob filter isntead of powerhead is because the return on it will give a much wider flow than a single powerhead, which will give a more concentrated flow, and in a tank so small, the flow wont spread as much which will give you "dead" spots (spots w/no or little flow)

Plus if you wanted you could make the HOB filter a small refuge for some chaeto algae and to help grow pods (little white bugs). Just put some live sand in the bottom of the hob filter (an inch or so will do) and then put a few pieces of live rock rubble, and some chaeto algae...the pods will grow in all 3 of those, and the algae will consume a bit of the excess nitrates which is good.

Or if you dont wanna have a fuge, you can use it to run carbon in. Or like i said above, you can just run it empty

For cycling...no you dont gotta wait that long....IF you use live rock...CURED live rock. If you add 5-10 lbs of CURED live rock, your tank will be instantly cycled pretty much (the rock is whats cycling...not the water. All the good bacteria grows on the rock and not the water) You would just have to wait a few days to make sure everything stays stable before adding stuff. Then after about a week with live rock in, i'd say you can add a bunch of corals and maybe a fish.

If you get UNCURED live rock, then it will cycle itself...but it will take about a month, because uncured rock is just regular rock, but it has "die off" (bacteria die off) on it that will take about 3 weeks or so to grow back.

Lighting on this tank will be a piece of cake, but i wouldnt worry bout that till you get all your stuff planned out...lighting for now is the least important thing imo.

hope this helps, and ask more questions...make sure to get it right the first time, cuz smaller tanks give less room for newbie errors.

mike

 

[oddiseus]

Just an FYI I just started a 20 gal. and I have almost $1000.00 invested in it. Dont let this price tag scare you though. My 55 gallon only cost me about $400.00 Of course It didn't have all the neat lil toys but it was succesful nontheless. So it can be done. And yes starting with a bigger tank is going to be easier.

 

[RocketSeason]

If your wanting something tiny (like a 5 gallon) you can find special Nano Tanks that will meet your needs. They are very in-expesive (especially for Salt Water) and you can raise a few corals in them and maybe even add a fish or two.

It's accually a good way to start. Just to see if you like the hobby before you go spending thousands of dollars on larger, more complex systems only to find that 6 months down the road, your burned out.

Just know that small tanks are high maitanence. Be prepared for constant monitoring and water changes.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

It's accually a good way to start.

i dissagree...like i said above, smaller tanks are harder to keep everthing in balance, which imo wouldnt be a good starting point for a newbie. But that being said it can still be done w/out too much trouble, but it takes a high maintainence to keep it running successfully.

IMO, the BEST thing you should invest money in for a tank this small is an auto topoff unit. that way the salt level never fluctuates due to evaporation (which will happen)

 

[wav3form]

People start at different levels of comprehension. You can be new to the hobby and be a success at smaller tanks if you do the research and progress carefully. If they have experience keeping freshwater fish successfully, this only helps. It is a good way to get into the hobby but maybe not good for everyone.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

yea i agree. you really have to research BEFORE goin out and getting a bunch of stuff (which you seem to be doing lol)

 

[Ethics]

Thanks for the amazing advice guys.

I've decided I will try the smaller 5 gallon tank. The reason being I'm very short on space in my room. 4 Other tanks occupy all of it.

Here's a list of things to buy...

5 Gallon Tank

Aquaclear hang on filter (not sure what size I need for a 5 gallon, any suggestions?)

topoff (not really sure how this looks so I was hoping you guys can point me to exactly what it is so I can do some research. I buy all my stuff form here...

http://www.bigalsonline.com/

Could anyone find a topoff for my 5 gallon there?)

5 - 10 pounds of Live Cured Rock (hopefully my store sells it)

Question

When you get the rock, can you break it up into pieces to fit the tank, or do you have to look for smaller pieces in the store?

Salt Water Test Kit

Question

Did I miss anythign else. do I need a filter, and what kind of lights would you suggest, I noticed on the smaller hoods their usually the round bulbs, I will have to look for a strip light correct? and what kind of strip light will I need.

That all I can think of for now, you guys have been a great help.

-----------------------------------
Edit

An additional Question...

This may sound dumb, but when you purchase liverock, will stuff grow out of it?

-----------------------------------

Thanks again,
Mario

 

[sir_dudeguy]

you list looks fine to me. For the HOB filter, i'm not sure which AC model is the right one, but try to get something w/about 100 gph.

as for the rock, you sure can break it up and do whatever to it that you wish.

for the light, i'd go w/one of those coralife mini fixtures...theres prolly one thats around 24 watts total or something...go to drsfosterandsmith.com (i think thats what its called...if it doesnt work do a google search for them)
anyways, they've got all those mini lights i think.

as for the topoff, i dont know which ones are a good kind... just go for one thats cheap i guess...it wont hvae to be anything special. Or you could just make one...they're supposedly really easy to make.

I dont have one on my 55, but if i was gonna get a small tank like yours i would def. have one...otherwise you'd have to top off like 4 times a day to make sure theres not much of a swing lol.

hth
mike

 

[oddiseus]

For ease of learning and space availability why don't you just go with a 10 gallon? They are not that much bigger and you will find lights that fit easier as well as more room for landscaping, HOB filters, or even a skimmer if you decide to go with that later. Also If something goes wrong you have 5 extra gallons of forgiveness. Besides 10 gallons are only like $11 dollars at most big box pet stores like petco. Lol I alos noticed your list was missing salt the key ingredient. I would recommend buying the 5 gallon bucket of instant ocean that is usually the best deal, however its like $50, Compare that to a whole bunch of $20 boxes. As far as test kits go I would make sure to get a quality kit. Dont get one that has lil tablets they usually suck and give false readings. For water movement you might need a power head I recommend going with a Maxi Jet maybe a 400. This should get you going. Good luck and remember be patient. When your ready to start your cycle use a coctail shrimp from the grocery store as opposed to a live fish or animal. You willactually see the shrimp decompose as the tank cycles. Have fun and Welcome to this wonderful hobby.

 

[Ethics]

Thanks for the great answers.

Next week im going to stop by the store and pick up all of my supplies, probably on a wed or thurs, I will post pics up of what I got any any further questions I may have before putting everything together.

Another question I have is, I see alot of people using Skimmers, would you reccomend one for a 5 gallon, and what exactly do they do.

Money really isnt a issue here, but space is thats why Im going with the 5 gallon, is there any other equipment that would make my life alot easier.

Thanks,
Mario

 

[sir_dudeguy]

When your ready to start your cycle use a coctail shrimp from the grocery store as opposed to a live fish or animal. You willactually see the shrimp decompose as the tank cycles

i dissagree.

if you have live rock already, why would you put a shrimp in there? that will only cause problems if you've already got live rock.

theres no need to bring in a shrimp

 

[oddiseus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7895439#post7895439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sir_dudeguy
i dissagree.

if you have live rock already, why would you put a shrimp in there? that will only cause problems if you've already got live rock.

theres no need to bring in a shrimp

Live rock isn't going to come completely cured. Also if the tank hasn't been cycled why add live rock. If you did you would just accelerate the die off and you willl see the same spikes as if a shrimp were introduced. Besides you can't SEE the effects of the cycle on live rock as opposed to a shrimp. So IMO as well as many others I believe that a shrimp is a good way to go. I would hold off on the rock for a bit and add those as soon as there has been a cycle that way you have better chances of saving anythng that might come on the rock.

 

[kass03]

If I were you I'd either go with either a 10 gallon or my choice would be a nano cube tank such as a 12 gallon aquapod or similar.
They already have everything you need except a heater and by the time you buy all the equipment seperately it will prolly cost you that much anyway.

I just set up a 10 gallon fresh for my kid. Got the tank for like 9 bucks and it still cost me $80 total for just a cheap hood, tank and the filter.
You need much better lighting such as power compacts for any corals.

You can't stock fish in saltwater like you can fresh so a 5 gallon is pretty small if you want a fish especially when you fill it with live rock.

Most people start with the live rock so if there is any die off it cycles along with the tank.
If you put a shrimp in and then wait to put the rock in if theres die off it will take longer to cycle.

IMO you do need to cycle the tank or at least wait to see if it does cycle after adding the rock.
It needs to be tested for ammonia and nitrites.

You should really read up alot on here before just jumping in.
As you see theres also alot of different opinions on how to do it.

kass

 

[oddiseus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7895635#post7895635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kass03
If I were you I'd either go with either a 10 gallon or my choice would be a nano cube tank such as a 12 gallon aquapod or similar.
They already have everything you need except a heater and by the time you buy all the equipment seperately it will prolly cost you that much anyway.

I just set up a 10 gallon fresh for my kid. Got the tank for like 9 bucks and it still cost me $80 total for just a cheap hood, tank and the filter.
You need much better lighting such as power compacts for any corals.

You can't stock fish in saltwater like you can fresh so a 5 gallon is pretty small if you want a fish especially when you fill it with live rock.

kass

I am total agreement with Kass. 10 gallon would definately be the way I would go. Like I said real estate. Thats the key especially for a noob. You don't want to end up hating your 5 gallon due to lack of possibilities and then lose heart in the hobby that would be a shame. I say go with a 10 might be only a few inches bigger but way better.

 

[Ethics]

Thanks guys, I will see what size can fit on my shelf, I know a 5 gallon will fit, but a 10 might have problems, which is why im leaning towards the 5 gallon.

I will let you know the measurments I have to work with, and we can see what can fit.

As for the cycling, I will read up some more on it to see exactly which method I will follow, and ask more questions when I have all the equipment in place.

Mario

 

[sir_dudeguy]

Also if the tank hasn't been cycled why add live rock.

because live rock is what cycles the tank. of course there will be a bit of die off, but if you get cured rock from an lfs and take it home and get it in the tank, there will be minimal die off, and in a few days to a week, the bacteria on the rock will have a chance to grow back and be cycled. Also, the water isnt what cycles...its the bacteria on the rocks that cycles (the bacteria also grows on every other surface i think, but the rock is the main thing). The bacteria on the rock i believe just breaks down amonia into nitrites, and nitrites down itno nitrates. This is the cycle process.

If you get cured rock, you're basically getting cycled rock, and adding a shrimp will only cause nitrate problems, and probably amonia as well, idk.

If you did you would just accelerate the die off and you willl see the same spikes as if a shrimp were introduced

yes and no...again, the water isnt whats being cycled...its the rock...so adding live rock to "un-cycled water" wont have any affects on the live rock.
And you wont see the same spikes form rock as you would with a shrimp. If you get cured live rock, the "cycle" will only take about a week or so, and you will see only minimal spikes if any at all. If you cycle with a shrimp it WILL cycle, yes...but it can take a month or so to completely cycle, and you will see WAY more of a spike than if you cycle w/cured live rock

If you get uncured live rock, it will also cycle itself, but it will take more than just a week...probably closer to the same as a shrimp would and probably with the same spikes.

there were a couple of polls in the "new to the hobby" forum about a month ago. They were both on what people prefer to use to cycle a new tank. Cured live rock got BY FAR more votes than ANY other method, including shrimp. There were actually quite a few people saying something about "dead shrimp is the old/outdated method of cycling"

hth
mike

 

[sir_dudeguy]

and yes, please ask about cycling in the newbie forum...see what response you get.

 

[4MB]

What kind of shelf is it? A 5 gal can get kind of heavy once you add water, sand, rocks, lights and whatever else.

My mother started a 5.5 gal and its totally a mess because she isn't very diligent keeping up with the water changes or if she does, she does too much and strips it of benefinicial bacteria.

In comparison of my 30 to my 10 the 30 is amazingly much easier. I started with the 30 and after a month or so inherited a 10 gal so I started that. The 30 has matured and stabilized (looking pretty good too) and the 10 is fighting through the slime algae stage and it is a pain keeping up with water changes and not taking to much beneficial bacteria. Stripped it once luckily I just threw some water from the 30 in.

The 30 the levels have been very easy to maintain which makes me excited to build a house and get a 125 or 150. IF I would have started with the 10 I think I would have just thrown it out the window.

 

[kass03]

I agree with Sir dudeguy about the dead shrimp not being a good idea.
I would start with live rock. Another method is adding a pinch of flake food every day.
To me you need to add the rock anyway so might as well start with it and have less of a cycle. Look for rock that's been at the LFS for awhile.

I just set up my aquapod 6 weeks ago using live rock and sand from my 150 gallon and it never cycled at all.
I still tested and waited before I added alot of corals to be sure.
Well I only waited about 2 weeks lol but that's because I could put them back in my other tank if it did cycle. A newb does'nt have that option.

4mb the benificial bacteria live in the rock and sand.
The reason it is'nt good to do a large water change is because it can change the pars too much and stress the animals.

kass