Newb looking to start 55G FOWLR tank

[carb850]

I started off looking at reef tanks but now I understand that to do one right, it would cost more than I want to invest at this time. That had led me to a FOWLR tank. Right now I'm starting with a clean slate but I'm thinking about going with a 55G tank because they are so common and I could pick up one pretty reasonable with a stand.

Filtration
I know the live rock acts as a filter, but what else is needed for this setup. Skimmer? Wet/dry filter? What are some of the prices and models would you recommend?

Lighting
Any lighting concerns with the live rock? I do not think the fish have any concerns but I would like something powerful enough to really show off the fish.

Live Rock
How much should I get? Could I mix in some percentage of man made rock?

Water needs
What source of water is acceptable for a FOWLR tank? What do we have access to in the Kanawha Valley? How much water will be added to a 55G over a month period?

Flow
I have read a lot about flow needs of a reef tank, but I have not read anything on the requirements of a FOWLR setup.


Anything else what I should know? I'm trying to get a good idea of what I'm getting myself into financially before I spend the first penny. I want to avoid buying anything twice and I want to minimize the surprises that I get on the cost of the setup and upkeep.

 

[mcox33]

Re: Newb looking to start 55G FOWLR tank

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9011616#post9011616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carb850
I started off looking at reef tanks but now I understand that to do one right, it would cost more than I want to invest at this time. That had led me to a FOWLR tank. Right now I'm starting with a clean slate but I'm thinking about going with a 55G tank because they are so common and I could pick up one pretty reasonable with a stand.

Filtration
I know the live rock acts as a filter, but what else is needed for this setup. Skimmer? Wet/dry filter? What are some of the prices and models would you recommend?

I would get as good a skimmer as possible, this will be as important as your filter, because it pulls gunk out of the water that nothing else can. There are several types. Hang on tank, in sump, not in sump but not hang on either. You will need to decide which type you prefer then ask for suggestions on which one to get of that type. Skimmers are not all alike. Some work better than others and you can generally find a decent one in any price range.

You would definately need a wet/dry filter on a FOWLR tank. Probably a couple of hundred for the wet/dry unless you can find a used one. Get the biggest one you can find/afford. The more fish you have the bigger the filters work load will be.

Lighting
Any lighting concerns with the live rock? I do not think the fish have any concerns but I would like something powerful enough to really show off the fish.[/B]

I would say get at least a 4 X 65watt PC fixture for light. 2 bulbs 10K and 2 bulbs actinic. That gives a nice color of light. Which will in turn show off the colors of your fish nicely.

Live Rock
How much should I get? Could I mix in some percentage of man made rock?[/B]

There are those on here who will say yes to this question. I say absolutely NO. It can still leach bad things into your water for years to come. Manmade rock can screw up your PH continually. I just would not do it in my own tank, to big a risk in my opinion.

Water needs
What source of water is acceptable for a FOWLR tank? What do we have access to in the Kanawha Valley? How much water will be added to a 55G over a month period?[/B]

I generally use tap water here in Nitro. Although I am starting to use RO water of late. But with FOWLR, depending on where you live you might be able to do so indefinately.

There are some who get their RO water at Wal-Mart, others get it from the LFS in Nitro.

Flow
I have read a lot about flow needs of a reef tank, but I have not read anything on the requirements of a FOWLR setup.[/B]

The saltwater fish tend to do better with a good amount of flow as well although it is not necessary to have as much as you would need in a reef tank. I would use at least 2 maxijet 1200 as a minimum just to help keep the debris susspended long enough to get to the filter. You don't want it settling in the tank.

Anything else what I should know? I'm trying to get a good idea of what I'm getting myself into financially before I spend the first penny. I want to avoid buying anything twice and I want to minimize the surprises that I get on the cost of the setup and upkeep.

You should still pick up a basic test kit for saltwater. You will still need to test for PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate.

You will also have to have some kind of Hydrometer or refractometer. Although with FOWLR a hydrometer is probably fine, the refractometer is more accurate.

I am sure others will chime in with more information. But this should keep FOWLR going until you decide to start adding coral.

Go ahead and get a good timer for your lights, you will appreciate it later on. It will turn your lights on and off for you so that the fish have their light cycle the same even if you can't be at home.


This setup should even be sufficient for some of the soft corals as well when you are ready for them.

 

[jmccown]

Welcome. Just a kind word of advice before you jump in. If you plan on entering the saltwater hobby, plan on spending some money. Everything is more expensive than freshwater. Don't skimp on your equipment, it will bite you in the long run.

As for a beginner, I strongly recommend starting out with fish only. I, too, still consider myself a beginner. I've been at it more than 2 years now and have learned tons about this hobby. I started out with a 75g and am now in the process of establishing a 380g tank that is currently FOWLR. Future plans entail this tank becoming a mixed reef. All in due time. The most important virtue with saltwater is PATIENCE. READ, READ, READ all you can about the hobby. You'll love it once you get into it. These guys on here are great. Taught me a lot. If you do a lot of stuff DIY, then you can save money. I've done a few DIY projects that have turned out great. But beware, this hobby is definitely addictive. Glad to have you aboard.

 

[firefish2020]

Well your doing things right, your asking lots of questions. In general a reef tank is no different than a fish only with live rock. You save on lighting as you don't need as much and you save on water flow (pump costs) as you also will not need a lot provided you use a low amount of live rock. You will want a skimmer and you will want a sump. Bought or built a sump will provide you with far more surface removal and filtration than most are willing to let happen naturally.

When I help set up customer tanks and they want to go the cheap route these are the the things I tell them they need to get started.

<b>Filtration</b>- Sump is best.

<b>Skimmer</b>- any good affordable skimmer you can find. The ESU SuperSkimmer series is probably the best affordable option at this time.

<b>Water Flow</b>- 10X the tank volume per hour is recommended for most reef tanks however this is just a rough generalization. Flow determination is dependant upon several variables that are unique to every tank. If you have a lot of rock stacked against the back wall you will need supplemental flow to insure proper circulation and lack of dead spots behind your rock. For your tank I would think about 500-600 Gph would give you all the flow you would need.

<b>Heater/controller</b>- One of the least expensive pieces of equipment and most neglected is the heater. Heaters are not infallible and WILL FAIL one day. I recommend and use a temperature controller for tanks. Almost every horror story I hear about tank failures starts with. "My heater went out..." Think of it as an insurance policy.

<b>As for rock</b>-
I do not use man made rock because of the advice of a very wise man who told once me it was potentially dangerous and there was no way he would ever do it. I did not take his words lightly as he was one of a handful of the best environmental scientist in the Us. He produced many papers and graphs of the content of cement and how all of it was different and you never know what "could" leach out of it or when.

That said there are many options out there for rock, you can use simple dry base rock usually around $2 Lb. I wont tell you how much we have in live rock in our tank, I will tell you we did not buy everything at once.

Remember, you don't buy a reef tank you grow one. It takes many years for a tank to mature. They all start as fish only, some just stay that way longer than others. If you ever wish to turn it to a reef you will only need to increase your lighting and water flow. This should answer a few of your questions, feel free to ask more.

Also remember this, every tank like every person is an individual. Some may look and act alike at times but no two will ever be identical. What works for one may not work for yours. You will find many who disagree with a certain approach and others who swear by it. I invite you to make your own choice based on the information you are given. In short try it before you join the ranks of promoting it or belittling it. As long as you are willing to tank your time and go slow I see no reason why you can not have the tank you are wanting.

Welcome Aboard.

Ron Lanham
CVRC President/Co-Founder

 

[wvdaisy]

Carb850, you should come to the CVRC meeting later this month. You can talk one on one with many experienced aquarists.

 

[fishmon]

All I can add to this goes with something already said.....read, read, read, and then remember "paper can't refuse ink" nor can this wonderful internet refuse what is typed. In other words read many different authors and many different posts as you will find different answers w/ each. Then after your headache goes away, look at the most common denominators and what is working for other aquarists around here. This is a wonderful hobby, just look at peoples tanks that are giving the advice, I know too many people who can talk a good game but as has been said here before "The proof is in the puddin'" Good luck and enjoy!!

 

[carb850]

Thanks everyone for the comments so far. I'm sort of working out a parts list of everything I need just to get a rough idea what the initial setup will cost me. Once I complete it, I would like for you folks to critique it for me.

Oh, one question that I have yet to ask is about calcium supplements. Would I have to add calcuim to a FOWLR setup? If so, about how often is this done? Is a calcium reactor needed or just overkill without growing hard corals?

 

[fishmon]

no

 

[anniecas]

I have a 46 gal black bowfront with glass top and lights for sale if you are interested. $125.00. I upgraded to a 90 gal.

 

[mcox33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9025314#post9025314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carb850
Thanks everyone for the comments so far. I'm sort of working out a parts list of everything I need just to get a rough idea what the initial setup will cost me. Once I complete it, I would like for you folks to critique it for me.

Oh, one question that I have yet to ask is about calcium supplements. Would I have to add calcuim to a FOWLR setup? If so, about how often is this done? Is a calcium reactor needed or just overkill without growing hard corals?

I am not sure if anyone adds calcium to a FOWLR or not, but believe me as long as it is FOWLR a calcium reactor would be over kill and they are very expensive to setup by the time you aquire all the equipment. I have about $1000.00 in mine and haven't even set it up yet. I should have all the parts though

 

[carb850]

I thought I read that the coralline algae of the live rock needed calcium, but I could very easily be wrong on that. Also would the 4 x 65 watt PC hood be enough for the coralline growth?

 

[carb850]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9026470#post9026470 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anniecas
I have a 46 gal black bowfront with glass top and lights for sale if you are interested. $125.00. I upgraded to a 90 gal.

email/pm sent.

 

[mcox33]

Actually doing your scheduled water changes will keep enough calcium added to grow the coraline on the rock. Some people do use a coraline jump starter, although I have never needed to. Someone gave me some coraline they had scraped from the glass of their tank. I did put it in the tank and it worked to seed my tank. I have heard of people using Purple Up and have heard that it works although I have not used it personally.

But I don't think you need to add calcium until you start adding SPS and perhaps some of the LPS might benefit from supplementing a little calcium.

Instant Ocean salt mix generally has plenty of calcium for coraline growth.

 

[carb850]

Good deal on the calcium. The thoughts of needing to add a calcium reactor almost had me scared away.

This entire time I have been hardline on getting a pre-drilled tank for a sump setup, but now I'm starting to think more about a overflow box. Seems like it would be easier to clean out the overflow box and easier to replace too. What do you folks recommend and why?

Oh, the overflow box method might be better cheaper too as I'm more likely to find a used tank that way.

 

[firefish2020]

NO OVERFLOW BOXES EVER AGAIN

Oh sorry about that, but if I have learned anything it's this. I will never own another overflow box again. If an overflow tube clogs you will have a flood, you will constantly be checking your U tube for air bubbles or snails. Oh and the gurgling will drive you mad. Get a Reef ready tank they are only about $50 more than a non-drilled and the peace of mind will be worth every penny.

As for Ca reactors that's something you can worry about in the years to come, most add things like that as there level of experience increases.

 

[carb850]

Not disagreeing, but if the down-flow tube on a RR tank would clog would you still not flood?

BTW, here is a rough price list of things I found so far.

$240 - 75G RR Tank
$55 - Accessory kit for overflow
$150 - Black Pine Stand
$130 - H2O RO/DI system
$200 - PC T5 48”-216watts w/lunar
$30 - Light Timer

I'm stumped on the sump. LOL Seriously though, pricing out the sump is confusing me. Not sure if I would be looking at a sump or refugium. I know I would need a skimmer, heater, and pump, but I'm not sure what else. Oh yeah, need some power heads too but I was concentrating on the filtration on my research. Any suggestions or corrections?

 

[mcox33]

Never had an overflow box. Just an water spill waiting to happen as far as I have seen.

everytime a snail decides the pasture is greener inside the pipe than out. LOL

I just don't want to be constantly using a wet/dry vac when I could be looking in my tank. LOL

 

[mcox33]

Well for a sump there are so many ways to go. Some use an aquarium and add baffles to that. ( Just silicone them in place.)

Some use a wet/dry system. Some end up taking out the bioballs some don't.



Some use A Refugium,

Others use a biowheel.

Not sure what else, others might be using.

First you need to figure out what system you want.

Then plan on replacing it many times over, I know I did. But I am probably going to go with the wet/dry system without the bioballs here in the next few weeks.

I got to catch up with Jason. I need a custom sump. (Please Jason)

Anyway I have used the wet/dry in the past. Now I am using a tidepool 2. I like the drawers and the wheel. But I want a new sump.

I do have a wet/dry I am not using. Actually it is brand new. I got it for my Brother in law then he changed his mind and used a different type of filter. Let me know if you are interested.

Just some more research to figure out what type you want. LOL

 

[jmccown]

Definately get a reef ready tank. You'll be glad you did. I have a really nice wet/dry I would sell if you are interested. It's a pro-clear model 200. I used it on my old 90g reef tank and it done a wonderful job. Let me know if you're interested. It would fit nicely under a 75g stand. Should leave just enough room for an in-sump skimmer. Plus I have an overflow box if you needed it in case you didn't go reef ready tank.

 

[fishmon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9068171#post9068171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carb850
Not disagreeing, but if the down-flow tube on a RR tank would clog would you still not flood?

All current overflow system built in to tanks (excluding perfecto aquariums as far as I know) have some type of grating/screen over the drain tube to eleminate the clogging problem.

As far as sumps/refugiums go get the biggest you can fit/ afford making sure you have room for all your accessories and use the K.I.S.S. method on any you go with.