newbie in need of help please!

A

allornunn

New member
*please note i am very new to the saltwater world, i have only cared for my koi pond going on 4 years now so im not completely lost but holy cow do i have alot to learn*

i have a small tank in my office i have been tending to in hopes to make a kind of "macro reef"...nothing crazy, only resident was 1 astrea snail. i decided i wanted to add a pair of dwarf seahorses. they are due to arrive tuesday next week. i wanted to get my water tested at our local LFS to make sure my tank is stable enough to house a more sensitive species and see if i might need to add any "bells or whistles" they might need upon arrival. somehow we walked out with a chocolate chip starfish and one small clown fish (bad idea bringing the kids and husband) but the guy at the store seemed very knowledgeable and said they would be fine with the seahorses. i keep seeing mixed reviews on whether or not they are compatible now and im soo lost, was this a mistake? do i need to take these guys back to the store???? my husband keeps telling me it will be ok since the starfish hangs at the surface on the glass but he also hasnt forked over $100s on the tank i solely invested in for my future babies!

very angry, confused, and in need of expert help.
thank you in advance
 
I think just starting out with saltwater it might be best to wait on the seahorses. See how the clown does.
 
Welcome to Reefcentral! First off I second SoloGarth. I am no expert as I am still learning about seahorses myself. However I have kept reefs for over 10 years now in addition to working in a LFS for almost have of those years. First off how small is your small tank? Secondly, if you cannot stop the order of your seahorses, then yes I suggest taking them back to the store and then find a new LFS that wont sell you a clown to put with your first pair of seahorses, just MO. I wont pretend to be an expert on dwarfs but I understand they need live food, so are you setup an equipped to offer than several times daily? Are you running a sump? Skimmer? Do you have hitching spots for them?

Sorry for the barrage of questions just trying to think of everything... I am sure some of the folks here will chime in as well!
 
I also have never kept dwarfs but I read quite a lot about them before deciding the daily hatching of live brine shrimp would be too rigorous for me. One thing I notice on forums from keepers of dwarfs was macro algaes often introduced hydroids which would kill the babies and even the adults at times. Most of the keepers switched to artificial plants. I am just passing that along fyi.
 
allornunn said:
*please note i am very new to the saltwater world, i have only cared for my koi pond going on 4 years now so im not completely lost but holy cow do i have alot to learn*

i have a small tank in my office i have been tending to in hopes to make a kind of "macro reef"...nothing crazy, only resident was 1 astrea snail. i decided i wanted to add a pair of dwarf seahorses. they are due to arrive tuesday next week. i wanted to get my water tested at our local LFS to make sure my tank is stable enough to house a more sensitive species and see if i might need to add any "bells or whistles" they might need upon arrival. somehow we walked out with a chocolate chip starfish and one small clown fish (bad idea bringing the kids and husband) but the guy at the store seemed very knowledgeable and said they would be fine with the seahorses. i keep seeing mixed reviews on whether or not they are compatible now and im soo lost, was this a mistake? do i need to take these guys back to the store???? my husband keeps telling me it will be ok since the starfish hangs at the surface on the glass but he also hasnt forked over $100s on the tank i solely invested in for my future babies!

very angry, confused, and in need of expert help.
thank you in advance
Click to expand...
Dwarf seahorses are best kept in small aquariums that start out sterile to lessen the chances of hydroids.
It's recommended to NOT have other fish in the tank, keeping it a species only tank. Chocolate chip starfish are also not a recommended addition to the tank just as it is for any knobby type starfish.
As for clownfish, I wouldn't even put them in with large seahorses as they often become extremely teritorial, especially as they age.
They will also quickly gobble up any fry that are born.
When it comes to seahorses, there are VERY few stores that are qualified to give information on seahorse keeping.
Between this site and the "org" site, you should be able to get all the information you need for keeping your dwarfs without having to rely on most likely false information from an LFS.
 
Seahorses for a first SW tank? Bad, bad idea. Slim chance of success. You need to do your research and not rely on the LFS advice. "Somehow" you walked out with a CC star and clown for your seahorse tank? Again, you are in control of what you buy and don't buy at the LFS. Making an uninformed, spur of the moment purchase in this hobby is not a good idea--for you or the livestock.

I would stop the delivery of the seahorses, take the cc star back to the LFS (they are not reef safe) and go with the clown. Gain some experience and do your homework before you tackle more advanced livestock like seahorses.
 
last night i put much thought into it and figured i would still have time to cancel the order in the morning for the seahorses since the breeder said he only ships mondays and tuesdays. of course with my luck this morning at 7:30 i got a call from the post office notifying me that the box had arrived. please, please understand this is not how i thought things would go. i went to the post office in tears and with so much anxiety i wanted to puke. i tried to act as fast as possible and got another tank so i can evict the clown and starfish out of my tank. i have looked up as much information as possible on the tiny plants i do have and they all show up as being safe or "threat level 0" for the ponies. yes i have a skimmer and yes 90% of plants in my tank are artificial and hitch friendly. i acclimated them SLOWLY over the course of close to 2 hours. i finally released them into the tank just a couple hours ago now. the bag had 100s of freshly hatched brine with them and yes i also have a bag of eggs to hatch. yes i have a separate 1.5 gallon bowl with an air pump so that i can continue to hatch eggs for them i dont mind the labor. at this time they are perched onto some of the artificial plants, breathing rate seems fine and i can tell they keep catching little shrimps as they swim by.... the evicted ones are still drip acclimating....anything else im missing?...please dont think bad of me :( i thought i would have this under control. i have been just besides myself all day. i would never want to hurt any of these guys on the basis of foolish wants for myself. any and all your help will continuously be greatly appreciated
 
im not sure how to post pictures but i would be more then happy to, i ordered 2 but 3 came. i would say they fit inside a penny size wise. the tank i have is an older tank ive had for years so i dont really remember but i want to say its 30 gallons or just under. my snail is still in there, is he ok to leave?
 
Well, relax a bit. Take a breath or two. In through the nose, out through the mouth...We have all been there to varying degrees. You will get past this and you will learn a great deal!

30 gallons is a bit big. Usually we are telling folks that they have too small of a tank! The 1.5 gallon would be better really. a 5 gallon would be better. Problem is that you would have to load up the 30 gallon with a ton of food to get enough density for the little guys. Way easier to provide the correct density in a smaller tank. The one snail will be fine.

Hatching brine fish daily can be a chore. They will need to be fed at least every day with shrimp less that about 24-36 hours old. So for vacations or long weekends, someone else will have to tend to the feedings. Something to keep in mind. I would get going on setting up the brine shrimp hatchery ASAP. You will also be needing more eggs. Look for decapsulated eggs.
 
any recommended/ reputable dealer? or should i trust my LFS, they seem to be great at what they know *rolls eyes* i will get the measurements on my tank and get a confirmed gallons size, i know theres a formula to find that out. i keep checking on them as if they were new born babies. ive gone thru a pot of coffee and cant stabilize my anxiety but at least they look content. i finished my contract with the national guard a little over a year ago now and havent "traveled" since, heck im lucky if i get a date night with my husband once every 2 months. you are very right they look like little specs in this tank so i would have to dump a ton of shrimpies in there to make sure they can get to them....will definitely want to put in an order asap for the eggs. although i dont mind downsizing,i dont want to move them anymore for today if that will be ok? i just dont want to stress them out any more then i might have already
 
Do you have test kits? I would absolutely recommend test kits. Dont rely on others to tell you your water quality as they aren't there at 11pm or 4am in the morning. I remember back when I first started looking at my tank wondering what was wrong and knowing the LFS wouldnt open for several hours...:headwally:
 
Yes, for 3 dwarf the 1.5 will be a LOT better. When adult, you could easily fit 3 to 4 on a silver dollar.
It will make it easier for feeding and cleaning as you can vacuum up the crap each day along with a 50% water change and keep water quality up which is critical for any kind of seahorse, much more so than for a reef tank even.
Make sure there is no intake for a filter/powerhead to suck in the seahorses.
Also, try to keep the temperature between 68°F and 74°F to help keep nasty bacteria at bay.
You will usually find the dwarfs don't hunt their food much, preferring to stay hitched until it passes by close enough to snick up. That means you need a pretty good density of the food in the container.
Feeding brine shrimp entails a lot of work in that you have to hatch (preferrably after decapping first) separate from the empty and unhatched cysts, (you don't want any of those getting trapped in the digestive tract of the seahorses) then grow them out for a day until they change into the second instar stage where they finish developing their digestive tract and can feed.
At that point, you enrich with a product like Dan's Feed from seahorsesource.com for at least 12 hours but better still, two 12 hour stages with new water and enrichment for each stage. (for bacteria concerns)
You then sieve out and rinse the portion you need for one feeding, rinse well, and add to the dwarf tank.
Feedings should be at least twice a day but the old food needs to be removed before the new feed is added each time as the previous feeding quickly looses it's enrichment, which in time will affect the dwarfs.
These are the hatcher/enricher bottles I use.
This is the page to Dan's Feed at seahorsesource.com
This is the dwarf forum where you can go to the bottom of the page and change the "30 days" to "show all" to peruse other hobbyists take on dwarfs.
 
update...

update...

ok so incase anyone is wondering.... i downsized to a 10 gallon tank i had in my garage, its the smallest i have but i am looking into investing into a smaller one soon.after disinfecting and air drying i added my already cycled water and about 20% RO, live sand,chunk of live rock but only artificial plants and coral for now. they seem very content. its a joy to watch them explore the tank and snack. i went to my LFS and bought more brine shrimp eggs, they dont carry decapsulated so its something i will have to order on my own. is there any opinions on that tom hatch 'n feeder? it seems like soo much less work then this "hatchery" taking over my desk. if its not as great as it seems, and i order decapsulated- do you just pour those in the tank??
 
i was also wondering, i feel like theres too many shrimpies swimming around. do they throw the balance of the water off? its been ok, i had a read once where my nitrate was at .1 but a water change cleaned it up....just wondering
 
and...sorry for all the questions...is there anyone else that sells enrichment for the BBS? if "dans feed" is my only option..about how long will his bag stretch?
 
allornunn said:
is there any opinions on that tom hatch 'n feeder? it seems like soo much less work then this "hatchery" taking over my desk. if its not as great as it seems, and i order decapsulated- do you just pour those in the tank??
Click to expand...
If you use ANY in tank hatcher, you will not be enriching the nauplii.
If you aren't using decapped cysts you will also be possibly adding nasty bacteria that brine cysts are KNOWN to have.
If you are looking for a less work hobby, dwarfs are definitely not it. Probably the greatest majority of those that start it, quit either because they get fed up with the work load, or slack off on doing what is needed and lose the dwarfs.
Decapsulatied should still be hatched, ongrown and then enriched before feeding to the dwarfs.
allornunn said:
i was also wondering, i feel like theres too many shrimpies swimming around. do they throw the balance of the water off? its been ok, i had a read once where my nitrate was at .1 but a water change cleaned it up....just wondering
Click to expand...
Because dwarfs don't usually hunt their food, but rather stay hitched most of the time and wait for the food to come close enough to be snicked, the food density in the tank needs to be fairly high to accomplish that.
I've never ever measured nitrate in my seahorse tanks.
All I care about is that NO ammonia is present as even the slightest amount can burn their gills.
Those "shrimpies" are brine shrimp nauplii and as they quickly loose their enrichment, any left over after a feeding should be removed before the next feeding for best chances of success.
allornunn said:
is there anyone else that sells enrichment for the BBS? if "dans feed" is my only option..about how long will his bag stretch?
Click to expand...
There are other enrichment options, just not as good as Dan's Feed, like culturing the multiple species of live algae to enrich them on as one species alone doesn't provide all the nutrition needed for the dwarfs.
Some people use Selco/Selcon emulsions but I prefer the more lasting powders and am too lazy to culture the multiple algae types.
As for how long it lasts, that varies with the number of feedings each day and the food density required for each set up.
 
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