newbie in the planning stage...lots of questions

[dwd5813]

A little background on me and my experience would probably be a good start to this.
My experience with aquariums has been in the freshwater area thus far. I am moving to Florida in a few months, and i recently broke down my tanks so that i can do some remodeling before selling my current home. For the past six years I have been running a 30 gallon community tank, a 55gallon mbuna tank, and a ten gallon has been run off and on as a QT tank when necessary. I have wanted a reef tank for a long time, and I have been lurking around in here, reading mostly, for a year or two. When I get to Florida, I want to set up a reef tank. I plan on using the thirty gallon for my main tank, because i believe that it can be drilled safely to accomodate an overflow. I plan on purchasing a 20g long to use as a sump, with glass dividers siliconed in to seperate it into a skimmer chamber, rubble/sand zone, and a return chamber.
the dimensions of the thirty gallon i have are 36"l x 12"w x16"h. i purchased the tank used, but i believe it to be an AGA. the dimensions of the tank i have in mind for the sump are 30"l x 12"w x 12"h: the AGA 20L. I feel that this combination of volumes between the display tank and sump will help stabilize the system overall, and make up for the fact that i am starting out with a display tank that is on the smaller side of things. I should mention that i understand that the 55 would be a better size for a newbie, but costs related to the system and the fact that i want a drilled tank do not allow me to use that tank for this project. (and i want to set up another mbuna tank)
i have a list of things i would like to have in this tank, and they are these:
fish:
1 stonogobiops yasha (yashahase goby)
1 pair true percula clowns

inverts:
1 alpheus randalli (randall's pistol shrimp)
the rest of the invert list i have is the premium reef cleaner package on Marine Depot Live:
10 cerith snails
5 nassarius snails
10 cerite snails
1 queen conch
1 sand sifting star
10 mexican turbo snails
10 blue leg hermits
10 mexican red leg hermits
1 cleaner shrimp

corals:
undecided on exactly which, but a colony or two of zoanthids
again, undecided on which, but some ricordea mushrooms
euphyllia ancora (hammer)
euphyllia divisa(frogspawn)

i plan on 60 lbs. of live rock, and 50 lbs of sand in the display, and i am not sure what will go in the sump yet.
as far as lighting goes, i am planning on a tek light t5ho fixture, i think the 3ft 6x39 is what i should be looking for.

so.......thats where i am at
my questions at this point are these(millions more to follow i'm sure)
1. is 234w of t5 enough? too much?
2. what bulbs should i use?
3. is the list that i gave of inverts too much? enough? the right ones?


well, i should let that digest for now i think. next up will be questions RE: skimmer, flow rates, return pumps, and more....

i hope to hear some feedback, and please understand that i recognize my newbie status, and welcome all types of constructive feedback.
Thanks very much

Michael

 

[THB]

Sounds good. A reasonable fish stocking list for that size. My only concern is that a queen conch will get very large over time and bulldoze the rock work, also I think it is the sand sifting stars that often starve after cleaning thru all the sand. Just a thought for you to consider and further research.

You are to be commended for thinking and planning this thru ahead of time. Good luck!

 

[thecichlidpleco]

I know that you got your list from marine depot, but make sure you look at the vendor section to find out about them if you plan to buy from them.

 

[axia55]

6x39w of T5 is going to be ALOT for that tank. I have 4x24w on my 28g BF which is 20" high and I feel that it is plenty!

 

[dwd5813]

thanks for the replies. i guess its safe to continue with some more questions and observations or revisions of my plan thus far. THB, i agree with you about the conch. i never really planned on one before, but i thought i would get some feedback about it, and as to the star, i am unsure i need that either. my plan is to have a bioload as small as possible, with the obvious exceptions of the fish i personally find necessary. i think the pair of clowns will add enough action to a tank this size to satisfy me. and i just wanna see the goby and shrimp hangin together. i would choose this over the clowns if i had to.
other concerns i have about the invert list is that there are simply too many, and i will have a slow die off as the majority of them starve. could i reasonably cut that list in half, eliminating altogether the conch and star?
thecichlidpleco, i was using their list as a platform from which to start, as i am months away at least from any purchase at all. that said, i appreciate your suggestion, and will be sure to research any vendor/lfs/source before making a purchase. thanks for your advice.

now for more questions......
topic 1: the dreaded drill. the tank as it stands has no holes in it. assuming i can find a glass shop to drill it, or round up the nerve to try it myself, where should i put the holes? and how big should they be?
this directly relates to
topic 2: going with the flow. since i am using a sump, and i plan for a skimmer, what would you guys say i should shoot for in terms of flow through this sump? i was originally thinking about 300gph, turning over the display's empty volume ten times an hour, but as i read more about sumps it seems that this may be too much. thoughts?
also, it makes sense in my head(which doesnt say too much lol) that the skimmer can not possibly have a flow rate higher than the amount of water it recieves..... so my question there becomes how much flow to send through the skimmer. i figure that if i can get a ball valve between the pump and the skimmer, i can tweak it as needed. again...thoughts?
for example, the AquaC EV120 comes with a recommendation of the mag 5 for a pump.
I am expecting my return pump to fight about 4 ft of head pressure, maybe slightly more as i add unions and such, and if i figured it right, the mag 5 was the pump i was gonna use for my return. i would get, by my calculations, just under 300 gph. now, in my mind it seems that if i am returning at 300 gph, i will be sending 300gph through my overflow, and thus making 300gph available to my skimmer. if i have a mag 5 for my skimmer pump at 0 head, it will run dry real quick unless i throttle it back with a ball valve, but then i reduce the performance of the skimmer significantly, no? i guess the real question buried in all of that is how to acheive a balance between overall flow through the sump and skimmer flow? i should say here too, that i am also trying to figure the best way to balance the flow in the display tank so that i can cater to the variations in flow requirements between the euphyllia and the zoos and mushrooms. thus far i am leaning towards a set of powerheads on a wavemaker, but if i can get away without it, it would clean up my display tank, where space is at a premium already.

well, i have just about spun my own head off, so i am gonna stop and ask for feedback again. if your heads arent spinning too bad, and you make sense of the questions i buried in there, feel free to make observations, recommendations, or just ask questions. i'm sure there was a clearer way to phrase all of that, so thanks for bearing with me.

 

[dwd5813]

what are you keeping in your tank axia? i was thinking that the six time fixture was kinda much, but i think i will probably be hanging the fixture above the tank so i will be able to make some adjustments that way. that said thanks for the input and i open the floor to anyone with furthur comments or suggestions in this or any other area of my plan.

 

[THB]

I looked at the invert list again, and you definately do not need 10 turbos. They are like bushhogs eating agae. I think that actually one or two would be enough for a tank your size. Iwould keep the 5 nassarius though. They do such a great job stirring the sand bed by popping out at meal time. I would probably cut the hermits numbers by half as well. Better to add a few more cleaners later if necessary than to risk starvation and die off, as you said.

 

[dwd5813]

new plan for inverts:
randalls shrimp (1)
cleaner shrimp (1)
turbo snails (2)
nassarius snails (5)
cerith snails (5)
cerite snails (5)
blue leg hermits (5)
red leg hermits (5)
also, another question. if i had a pair of the yasha gobies instead of just the one, would the one randall's shrimp be good, or would each goby "want its own shrimp"?
i dont know enough about this relationship yet...... off to lurk, i mean research.

all kinds of room for advice in this thread folks, please dont be shy. thanks

 

[THB]

I have read that a mated pair of shrimp gobies would be symbiotic with one pistol shrimp. You may have to purchase a group that has been collected together to assure success. Or at least see that a group bond has been formed in the lfs tank, because if I understand correctly it is not a given that a bond will form if they are bought seperately and placed in the tank together.

New invert list sounds good.

 

[dwd5813]

yeah i have been reading that the relationship is not a guarantee. sorta like how you could have a tank with several anemones and your clown could be hosting in your frogspawn. no guarantees. anyone have a good source of info, or multiple sources, for the yasha goby? so far i havent been able to come across very much besides the article on this site, and vendor descriptions.
THB, thanks for the encouragement and advice on the inverts. do you have any opinions or advice on the sump flow / skimmer topic?

i say again that i welcome comments and suggestions from anyone. i would like to get as many responses as possible. thanks folks

edit: i just reread my post about the sump and skimmer issue and realized how unclear that seems. maybe i can clear up my questions a bit.
1. how much flow is recommended through a sump?
2. what percentage of that flow should be going through the skimmer?
3. what size hole will i need to have in the tank in order to ensure the desired flow rate through the overflow?, and where should i put it?

there are more, but i dont want to take on too much all at once, if i havent already.
thanks again

 

[dwd5813]

^^

 

[ExarKun]

Hey dwd5813,

Just responding to your post in my thread about my tank info. I probably should update my profile

I have the exact same tank as you. I really like the length of it but am dissapointed with the 12" depth. Even with only 30 pounds of LR I don't have much for open sand. If I had to do it over I would probably go for a 29 gal cube.

I'm going to be getting more LR soon I'd like to have about 40-45 pounds. My tank just doesn't look very full right now.

When I was looking for lighting I was going to get the 4x39w T5 fixture from reefgeek.com. The price with bulbs was around $400. My project manager (read wife) said I needed to cut cost so I ended up getting the Corallife 2x96w PC fixture from Marinedepot.com. I showed a 50% savings, managament is happy.

While researching the T5 I came across this informative thread for bulb types and placment:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=679852&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

It's a really long thread and has been split a few times, however most of the information you need is in the first few pages.

I'm running a HOB AquaC Remora Skimmer with a MJ1200 ph. It's only been running for a week and hasn't really broken in yet so I can't give you a good review yet. So far it's a little noisy but, once broken in it's suppose to quite down.

As for a flow in a skimmer and flow in a sump I don't think the two are related. If you set up the skimmer like a closed loop; i.e. intaking from the sump and returning to the sump, the 2 flows won't affect each other. If the sump flow is less than the skimmer flow you will just be running the same water through the skimmer again so to speak. Does this make sense? I have heard that it's best to set the skimmer up in the very first compartment of the sump, right where the water from the DT comes in.

I have a 100w titanium heater from drsfosterandsmith.com I think. No complaints there, keeps my tank at a comfy 79°.

I also have 2 MJ1200's for flow. If I had to do it over I'd get the MJ900's they are much more effecient and you don't lose to much in terms of flow. Or I'd just go with a closed loop pump and a SCWD. The ph are really bulky and take up a lot of room. Plus they look ugly.

HTH!

 

[dwd5813]

exar, thank you so much for sharing that info. i hope your tank is doing well. is there any reason besides pacifying the project manager that you chose the pc lighting over the t5? i havent yet read that thread for lighting, but will go there as soon as i am done with this post. my current, i think final, plan (thanks go to waterkeeper and axia 55) is for the tek light t5 fixture, 3ft, 4x39, with geismann 6000k midday bulbs(2), pure actinic(1), and actinic plus(1). i look forward to the read and hope i can come up with an arrangement plan next.
as to the flow issues i was having the current plan is for 250gph through the sump.
my current skimmer of choice is the ev120 listed above, which according to the manufacturer has a flow through rate of 225 gph. my sump design plan is to have a drain emptying into a skimmer chamber, flowing through a set of baffles into a larger middle zone, through another set of baffles and into a return chamber. i see more clearly now that the skimmer will just take whatever is available. your CL comparison was helpful, exarkun.
as for the rest of the flow, i am still up in the air (insert funny statement about empty tank here) about how i will get that done. a CL would be nice, and i guess if i am drilling for the overflow, i may as well drill for the CL at the same time.
more! i would love to hear more thoughts and/or have mistakes in planning or thinking pointed out. thanks for everything thus far folks

 

[dwd5813]

i forgot my other question, as if there were only one more :lmao: what size hole do i need to drill to be able to accomodate the desired 250 gph flow? should i make it so that i could accomodate more? (see, told ya there was more) for the sake of clarity this is the type of project i am planning. thanks to travis for that thread.
edit: this is actually different from exactly what i am doing. i want to place the hole on the bottom and use a durso standpipe , but you get the idea, i'm sure. by the way, thanks to richard durso for that site, it is great.

 

[dwd5813]

^

 

[THB]

I am not at all knowledgable about drilling, but there are some amazing project stories in the Do It Yourself forum. Have you posted there?

 

[dwd5813]

no i havent posted there, but that is a good idea.

 

[dwd5813]

this calculator was shown to me in the diy forum. thank you very much, shannahan 14.

 

[dwd5813]

can someone recommend a good brand of pumps to use for my skimmer and return?
i am thinkin of the mag 5 for skimmer and mag 5 or 7 for return.
very interested in comments, reviews, suggestions, etc
thanks
edit: unless someone can show me a good reason not to, i am going with the AquaC EV120 for a skimmer. also the flow rate i am looking for at 4ft head, or a couple inches more, is 250gph.
i also plan on a .75 inch pipe for the drain, so i should be able to accomodate 300gph through the overflow, as far as i can tell. thanks.

 

[jpitch]

What made you choose 6000 k lighting? Normally people choose that low K for growing out macro-algae in there sumps. I think generally people favor the 10000-20000 k range. With your preferrence to soft corals and the amount of lighting you're going with you definately have enough to accomodate a higher k rating and not suffer in terms of growth.