NEWBIE:Nano now or save more $ for later?

[Nzomniak]

Hi all!

Basically:
Are saltwater Nanos REALLY that hard to maintain? Even for COMPLETE newbies to the hobby?


And now, for those who wish to know some background:

Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve decided that I want a FOWLR tank, with the possibility of a full Reef if all goes well. :fish1: I've been reading and trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible, since I've never had a single fish in my life before. I've done plenty of furries, but NEVER fish. Not even like ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œI had fish but my dad took care of them.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ NO, NEVER!!

I've decided that I WANT and am WILLING and ABLE to do this ... but now I'm left with the $$ issues. I was thinking about a 40 or maybe 55 gal breeder. Add that up with all the stuff that goes with it (LS, LR, and all the other misc stuff needed to start a brand new tank from scratch) and it's big-time bucks.

Does anybody have any opinions on the Biorb? I've thought about this only because it's kinda cheap (in comparison) and will be at least SOME KIND of experience with fish. (I know, freshwater...) :hmm2:

I keep going back and forth between whether I should save up my money and buy a 40 or 55 gal breeder, and not know how the hobby is going to sit with me. Or maybe I should just buy a NanoCube to start with? But I know that Nanos are difficult to keep properly maintained (they are not good for newbies). I am ANXIOUS to get started, and am leaning towards getting a NanoCube (to save money up-front), but am afraid that it may be too difficult for a newb and I may kill some fishies, and be turned off with the hobby because of a bad decision. :thumbdown: ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œOnly bad things happen when you rush!ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚

Is a Nano really that hard for a newbie to keep? Does anyone have any suggestions as to what is the best way to get introduced to reef/fish keeping?



I'M COMPLETELY OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS!!



:is begging for guidance:

 

[shag26272]

a nano isnt harder than a larger tank, you just have to watch conditions constantly, If you have enough time to test your water and maintain frequently it isnt all that hard, BTW im up to about 600 bucks spent on my nanocube 6 gallon in the past month, A 55 gallon wouldnt be any more, plus a FOWLR in a nano is kind of lame because you are very limited on fish choices

 

[petermai]

try and save up for a bigger tank. more water = more stable water condition. stick to ebay and craigslist and you'll be looking at a 55 gal up and running for roughly...$300 without LS and LR. just remember, this is a costly hobby so choose wisely.

 

[kappaknight]

The first time around I spent a few thousand just on a 30G and 55G. This time around I'm trying to do it smarter on a 75G. I'm not saying I won't end up spending thousands anyway, but hopefully over a longer period of time.

Basically, I'm going to try to buy a used setup from fellow club members or Craigslist. As long as the tank can hold water, it doesn't really matter if it's new or used.

In terms of getting live rock and sand if you didn't buy it from the same guy who sold you the tanks... you could possibly get live sand for free or cheap and you can get live rock for pretty cheap if someone from your area is moving or getting out of the hobby.

I haven't seen too many people trading fish yet but down here in ATL, a lot of people do frag trades and frag give-aways.

Hope that helps.

 

[Andrew]

I would start getting the equipment you need now for a larger tank and slowly get everything you need and research alot and then once you have all the equipment you could start the tank.

 

[AustinVines]

Charlene,

I am in the same boat you are in, except that I keep going back and forth from a 12g nano or something more like 180-200g But I want a full reef tank and am more interested in keeping corals than fish in my nano. Since you want a FOWLV, a 55g may be the best way to go since you probably won't get much enjoyment out of a tiny tank that cannot sustain more than one or two fish.

I know the advice is to buy as much tank as you can up front since you will want a larger one almost immediately, so if you decide on saving, go for an even larger tank.

 

[fambrough]

I strongly recommend not to do a 12 gal FOWLR nano. I also strongly recommend that you do not get a traditional 55--it has very limiting aquascaping possibilites due to narrow width. If you want to stay "small" as I did, go with a tank platform of 36" x 18". This is the 40 breeder 50 and 65 gal platform (only the height changes). This may postpone the pains and costs of an inevitable upgrade.

I aquired almost all of my equipment over time as items appeared on sale from major internet sales companies. I saved substantially and still had brand new equipment (lights, pumps, wavemaker, heater, refractometer, etc). It is costly as a hobby, there's just no way around that unless you have talent with DYI, not to mention equipment and time.

I am extremely pleased with my results, a dymanic and interesting 40 breeder. Still, after rock and livestock, I'm in this over a grand. Remember that even this size is limiting if the fish are your major interest. I have found that fish quickly take a back seat to the live rock, macra algae and corals. But that's just me.

Best of luck,
Ben

 

[AquaReeferMan]

I started small and I just keep going bigger. Dont waste your money. Save up for a big tank and do some research in the time being.

 

[Pandora]

Charlene; are you more interested in fish or corals? Because you mentioned the FOWLR option. If you were to do a nano that was say, 10-12 gal, then you're extremely limited in fish that you could keep at all... only 1 or 2 small goby type fish would be appropriate, and even then you'd be pushing it if you wanted a stable environment. If, on the other hand, you wanted to start with a few easy corals, and don't care that you only had one fish in that sized tank, that wouldn't be a bad way to go... and there are newbies that start out this way, and you'd get a lot of guidance here and on nano-reef.com.

In general, the problems with nanos have been outlined above.... larger the easier to maintain water quality etc, I'm sure you've heard. It's not so bad if you are a fastidious person and don't mind doing tests on the 10 gal a lot, and on top of this, don't really care for fish or always-moving inhabitants, and just focus on small corals. The problems come with beginners feeling limited in what they can keep. I started out with a 10 gal & a 55 gal in SW (after having had tons of FW aquariums throughout my life). I personally wish I had just started out with the 75 I had now, or larger... not so much because of difficulty in my case, but because of the feeling of not being able to keep many things. And also, as fambrough mentioned, the depth of the 55 (front to back measurement) is somewhat narrow, and not ideal for aquascaping LR.

 

[theplatypus]

I started small and now its time for an uprade.
Used skimmer and pumps $150
Used MH fixture $300
New pump for CLS -$90
Live rock from tank breakdown $150
Southdown sand $15
Used sump $30
Custom acrylic tank $325
Used RO/DI - ?

Right around $1200 for a 70 gallon setup.

 

[The Reefer91]

i would save up for a bigger tank. it can cost a lot, but if you spend alot of time pricing, you can save alot of money. me, i'm starting a 125g reef tank. due to pricing, i can get away with spending about 3 thousand dollers over like 3 months.

 

[crazyfingersmike]

I was a newbie that started out with a nano. Everything went very well, and I learned a lot. BUT... here's the issue.

As a newbie, there are things you don't know, that you'll learn along the way. It will be hard to adjust to that new knowledge and make changes to your nano setup. Over the long term, your nano will become difficult to maintain, only because some of the things you do early on will have effects on the system that won't come to light for a year or more.

What happened with me, is that I started out slowly, and as good as a newbie possibly could. My tank was in great shape, and easy to maintain for quite some time. 6-12 months with no issues.

But as the tank started to age, I started to battle hair algae and nutrient problems. All of my snails were dying. The health of my livestock wasn't the greatest (but nothing died). What I learned was that the reason for this was due to 1) curing the live rock in the tank. Nutrients leached into the sand, which would only become problematic a year or more down the line, after the system reached its stability level.

I learned that all of those *must have* pieces of equipment that didn't seem very necessary in the early stages, are really necessary for long-term success. You can get by without a skimmer for quite a long time, but at what expense? At the expense of high levels of nutrients leaching into every nook and cranny of your system. At the expense of those nutrients coming into balance with the system, causing nutrient problems down the line when your system expects those nutrients to be there for harmony and balance to exist. Then those nutrients become a problem when the nuisance algaes start to propagate on them. And those nutrients become hard to remove because they aren't seen by test kits because they are in equilibrium with the system.

Another issue is flow. In a nano (especially those cubes), water flow is hard to create and maintain throughout the system. There's so much actual free water space, that all these "dead areas" are created. Those areas become low in oxygen, light, and flow. They become perfect breeding grounds of lots of nuisance things.

What's different about starting with a larger tank? Well, to be honest, I can only theorize because my first tank was a nano, and my second was a larger tank. By that time, I already had 2 years experience with the hobby. But my guess is as follows:

Larger tanks allow you to fit more of those necessary pieces of equipment. They're easier to clean. You can more easily change your setup as you learn things. It's easier to create more flow. etc etc etc

As far as money, I keep a careful eye on my spending. It cost me almost $1000 to set up my nano, and about $500-700 in maintenance for 2 years. It cost me almost $1000 to set up a 40 gallon tank, stand, hood, 20 gallon sump, 150W light system, skimmer, pumps, LR, sand, etc.; and so far, only about $100 in maintenance (but I haven't had it running for that long yet).

Anyway, to make a long story well, even longer, what I'm getting at is that you will be better served to save your money for an extra month or two, keep doing your research, and start with a tank in the 30+ gallon range, something that you can either start with a sump or add a sump to later.

 

[ste6168]

well, alot has already been outlined in the longer posts so i am not going to type very much, but i just wanted to cast my 2cents. I started out in this hobby with the 75g that is in my signature after much debating wether to get a 40b, a 55 or what. Finally decided 75g was a nice starting size and convinced my parents to let me get it. I LOVE the tank more than anything (except my girlfreind) and i have only spent about $1500 on EVERYTHING, buy used - looke for deals - trade what you will get for better stuff. You see how it works once you jump in. Anyway Now that i have my 75g i am looking to get a nano (not a nano-cube particularly but something small) to play with in my dorm room at school (my tank is at my parents house). I would say you should start out with a bigger tank like 40b, 50, 65 for 3 foot or better yet if you want the 4 foot then get a 75g, you will not be disapointed.

 

[porkbullet]

So I started this hobby with a 10 gallon tank that had held FW neglected fancy guppies and a crawdad I pulled out of a lake. I got sick of looking at a boring FW tank and before I threw all of it out, a friend convinced me to try SW in it just to see if I liked it.

I had been told for years to not even bother with SW unless I could afford at least a 55 gallon tank by multiple sources. I finally threw caution to the wind and took the plunge, a newbie SW hobbyist with a 10 gallon nano.

This has been my experience over the last 15 months.
- Testing constantly: This is simply not the case for me. I tested a lot at first as I got the tank up and running, but in the past year, I have maybe spot tested (just cause I felt like it) maybe 3 or 4 times.
- Massive water fluctuations and nuissance problems: This hasn't really happened to me.... yet. I say yet, because with respect to other posters here, my tank is still relatively young. But so far, I really haven't had any problems like that. I had some aiptasia, bought a peppermint shrimp, no more aiptasia. Simple things like that are what seems to have kept my tank going.

As far as money, I think you can find examples of people who have spent 3x as much money on their 10 gallon nanos, than other people may have spent on their 40 gallon tanks. It all depends on how much you want to do yourself, deals you can find, etc.

So, to answer your original question: Yes, a newbie can definitely be successful with a nano tank. It takes a fair amount of research and a healthy dose of common sense, patience, and discipline, but I think that's true for any size tank in this hobby.

I will tell you this in closing. If money is your ultimate concern, you are better off waiting. I am planning on getting a bigger tank now because I have enjoyed my 10 gallon so much. So take that into account. It might be less money short term, but long term, I am paying more than if I just started with a big tank to begin with.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[colettem]

I personally wouldn't recommend a biorb - an enormously fun part of a tank is looking at all the tiny organisms on the live rock - like fan worms, pods, crabs if you have them etc. With a biorb I don't think you can even look at the fish properly without going dizzy!!

 

[Nzomniak]

wow, thanks so much guys for all of the responses! Sorry it's taken me so long to repost.

I guess ya'll have convinced me to just wait it out, and go for a bigger tank. dammit ... I was really wanting to jump in and pick up <i>some</i> kind of tank right away.

The thing is, I can't start acquiring any equipment until I decide on the size of the tank right? I mean, I hate to buy something with a 55 in mind then later actually end up with a 75, and have to rebuy that piece. Does that make sense?

*sigh* patience sucks!! :spin2:

 

[capefear]

go big as you can

 

[mg426]

i think I would save for a larger tank. Not only for all of the reasons stated but I will just bet you are gonna want one anyway!!!!!!!!