Newbie Researching Starting an 8g Nano Reef - Question Heavy Novel!

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Hey everyone! I've been interested in saltwater aquariums since I was a kid, and I think the time has finally come to give it a try. I know starting with a nano can be a royal pain, but I'm around often enough to do daily water changes if needed, along with whatever other maintenance comes up. I have a large selection of reptiles, and I can easily add another complicated tank to my daily routine. If you must bash me for starting the hobby with a nano, please bash away, but it'll honestly take a lot of you to dissuade me :).

I have read the crap out of these forums, and thank you all so much for contributing, because I have learned a lot! Do link me to any related threads, as I may have - and probably did - miss something important. And I'm sorry if I'm repeating a lot of constantly-asked questions. I noticed a lot of the threads are older and I know there have been some crazy advancements in nano tech lately. Like not garbage nano protein skimmers. So I just want to have the most up to date info from you pros as possible for when I get started <3.


Alright, here's the meat:
I have an old 7.9g Fluval Flora tank that used to be a planted pea puffer tank, but he's been upgraded to something new, and the tank is now sitting empty. The longer I stare at its husk, the more I know what I have to do.

I want to keep some beginner soft corals and maybe a polyp or two. I'll have a good varied clean up crew. I'm weird, and I enjoy snails and crabs a lot, so I may not bother putting a fish in. Below is a bit more detail. Feel free to stop reading there and suggest me some corals, snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.

The light that came with is trash, so I'm buying a better lighting system for it. I'm looking at something compact that can keep my newbie-level corals happy. Does anyone have any strong feelings about this one on Amazon?: "T Tocas White/Blue Aquarium Fish Tank LED 100-240v in 30cm". I am very open to alternate recommendations, but I have to say I love the price tag on this one.

The filter oddly still works, but I'll be modifying it. Hopefully by putting some live rock fragments in, as well as a small mesh bag of carbon. It's an inside-the-tank filter, and it has a pretty strong current to it. If it proves strong enough I won't buy something else to move the water. If it's not as impressive as I think it is, I'll add something to supplement the current in the tank. Is this practical or should I toss the thing and buy a new one? If I toss it, should the new one be inside the tank or hanging? Why?

I still have the tank lid, and I might use it, and I might not. Preferences? Should I just buy a hood? Do they make square hoods? The lid is solid glass with about a one and a half inch hole in the back-middle.

Everything else from the kit has been scrapped, so new purchases are as follows:
7-8lb Live Fiji Rock
API Saltwater Master Test Kit
Refractometer
Red Sea Coral Pro Salt
Aragonite sand, not super fine
Nano Aquarium Heater
Small Algae Magnet
Thermometer
And a light like the one I mentioned above.

Am I missing anything vitally important? If I'm able to do water changes constantly, do I need a protein skimmer? If I do, what are your suggestions?

The plan is to set that up soon and let it cycle. If there are no problems with that (such as temperature or salinity fluctuations that are unsafe for corals, or you guys telling me I'm an idiot) I'll go shopping for a clean up crew.

For that I'm thinking an assortment of the following:
nassarius nails
astrea snails
nerite snails
dwarf blue leg hermit crab
scarlet hermit crab
mini brittle star
lettuce nudibranch

I'm not a huge fan of the emerald crabs, but if anyone has a good reason to throw one in, I will. Also, the nudibranch. I ADORE these guys. Is it practical to throw a pair into my nano? If so, what happens if they run out of algae? Can I feed them something else? I've heard they'll just dissolve if they have no food left.

What would be the suggested total of each of those (or a selection of) for a 7.9 gallon reef?

If you guys okay everything listed so far, and nothing blows up in my face, I'll add some corals. I'm looking at these:
tree coral frag
cauliflower colt coral frag
spaghetti finger frag
leather corals
mushroom corals
colony polyps
starburst polyps
button polyps

I'm thinking of adding one or two at a time, up to a maximum of 5. Is that logical? Can I add 5 at once?

I would love to be able to feed my corals. In your experience, are any of the guys I listed receptive to feeding? Should I feed them? Can I feed them?

And if all of that makes sense to you pros, and I have no problems, I might add one lone fish. Here's that current list:
neon blue goby
greenbanded goby
some type of firefish

I am totally against putting something in that will outgrow the tank. I don't even want something that will be cramped and unhappy, so no "This is great in a 12 gallon" comments, please. Having said that, I am open to other suggestions, and arguments against putting what I listed in. I love gobies, so any more gobies to add are very welcome! Also, think of the corals! I don't want any nibblers.

Thank you so much for any input! It's a pleasure to finally join you all in this awesome hobby! (And thanks for reading my novel of a post)

-Ashley

Edit: One more question! Live sand or not? Is that overkill? Is it a good idea? Thanks!
 
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1. No fish in <10g. My opinion, but honestly it'll be hard enough keeping parameters balanced in that small of a tank without the daily addition of food for a living breathing moving creature.

2. That clean up crew? Almost already too big with just one of each of those. This isn't a huge tank full of rock, and they eat a surprising amount of algae. In my 29g cube I only have 6 astreas and 6 blue leg hermits, and I have no algae in sight. Definitely no nudibranchs. If you really wanted to have them, you could supplement algae sheets for food (nori from the local asian market), but it's just more nutrients to have to remove. They're tough to keep alive in a large tank with a lot of algae, super finnicky. Also I don't think nerite snails are appropriate, I think they're the ones that will stay at the water surface all the time and are cold water. Also, no emerald is good. I would even venture to run a tank with no crabs, but it sounds like you find them interesting, so you can add some.

3. I would recommend keeping it super simple and get a PAR38 bulb if you can find one, mostly because others have gone with these bulbs and had great luck. I'm not sure about that fixture.

4. Make sure that your tank is designed for full-aquarium use. If it's a "flora" tank, it might have been designed as a terrarium, and those have thin glass and aren't for fully filled aquarium use. I don't know much about terrariums, but it's just something that's come up before.

5. Live sand - yes, but don't buy a 20lb bag and throw most of it away. Get dead sand in whatever quantity you want/need, and then get a handful of livesand from your LFS or from a local in your area who has a successful tank. A half of a sandwich bag size is plenty.

6. Coral list is pretty easy to keep, I just think you'll run out of room. But hey, I can't talk because I'm 98% out of room (check my thread). They don't need to be fed. Just weekly water changes and a good light. You should be able to add them all at once if they're small, and I would recommend buying small. Should be easy and cheap to come by too since they all grow pretty prolifically. You can probably get them all for free from locals who are growing them prolifically. I think I either gave kenya tree frags away free, or for $5 or something when I had it in my 120g tank (I had a HUGE colony).

7. A shrimp or probably even a pair will be fine, but they are sensitive to salinity changes, so heads up on that, which brings me to my next point:

8. Use the refractometer, and monitor your salinity levels constantly. in a small tank like that, your salinity levels will bounce all over the place unless you have an auto topoff. It's not necessary if you're going to be on top of adding topoff water all the time manually, but remember, smaller water volume means faster change in salinity due to evaporation. The glass lid may help with this though, but then you have to be careful about the heat.
 
Well, I won't give you crap about starting out with a nano, but I would suggest at least starting out with a 10 Gal. You really limit yourself a lot when you drop down below that. Plus you can pick up a nice 10G pretty cheap.

Regardless, I think you're doing a good job reading up a bunch and asking questions before jumping right in.

Reef gave you some really good advice, but I would caution about one thing. Seeding your tank from a LFS or another reefer can be a little bit of a crap shoot as you could get some nasty hitchhiker eggs/larvae that you can't see in the sand. Keep in mind a lot of LFS's have much easier access (and budget) to remedies for reefing annoyances.

I actually just started up a 10 Gal nano myself to keep my hermits and shrimp in while I'm dosing my main tank to get rid of some nasty LPS eating critters. So it's still pretty fresh in my mind.

Oh, and one thing, I know you said you'll be around, so you can top off the tank manually, but I'd recommend picking up an ATO system at some point. You don't have much water to start off with, so salinity swings will just happen without one. It may not seem like much to only need to add 8 oz. of water daily to to the tank, but imagine how much more stable it would be if it topped off at 1/4 of that. (plus it does get annoying having to remember to add water daily.......at least for me it did)
 
Thanks for the feedback!

Since I find the corals and cuc interesting enough, I'm totally fine with not adding a fish.

I'll toss the nerites off the list and maybe skip the starfish too to bring that size down a bit. I think I might get that stable and then add the nudibranch if I still feel I need him. Is it true they're one of the species that can nuke a tank when stressed?

I should be able to find that bulb no problem, as well as a big handful of live sand from a trustworthy source. I hope. Guess I'll find out if I get a breakout of something nasty >_<. Thanks for the heads up!

I'll be starting with teeny coral frags for sure. The shrimp will likely be a later addition, if they go in at all.

My one major concern is salinity fluctuations. I'll have to be like a hawk in monitoring that. Can you suggest any ato systems that are good for such a small setup? I haven't looked into those at all yet.

This is the aquarium I want to repurpose:
http://www.amazon.ca/Fluval-10512-Flora-Aquatic-7-9-Gallon/dp/B004AJCE0Q

The crappy backdrop never went in, because it's really quite ugly, so the aquarium is just a glass cube right now. That image gives you a look at the weird filter too. It just comes with sponges.

Is a 7.9 gallon really that different from a 10 gallon? In western Canada finding a cheap aquarium can be pretty tough. I can get a Top Fin 10g for $80, which isn't bad, but I've heard they can be pretty poorly constructed. Everything else is pricey. The Flora I was planning to use was $200.


Also, Alberta is stunning, but it's freakin' freezing outside already! There's frost everywhere. I get so jealous of you lucky Americans! You're not freezing to death over half the year, you've got access to way cooler marine fish and corals... not fair! :lol:
 
Alright so I did some ATO research, and I'm thinking the Tunze Osmolator. It has that nifty internal dial to turn the flow right down, which will be good for such a small tank. Opinions?

Now, a really stupid question: If I'm using the ATO, and I have it set to top off to where the salinity is perfect, how often will I have to add salt? I'm assuming there's some loss of salt content as it clumps on the filter and whatnot, but with the ATO it should be quite stable for a decent amount of time, right?

Also, strong opinions either way on getting a protein skimmer?

Thanks again for putting up with me!
 
My very first tank was an 8g Bio-Cube. Ran it for 2yrs before upgrading.
I still have several corals from that tank, 6yrs later [emoji2]

Best advise I give...Keep It Simple!!
 
You never add salt, as salt doesn't evaporate.

If you never do a water change, your salinity only increases as fresh water evaporates and salt is left behind. When you add topoff water of pure water ONLY, it brings the salinity to where you wanted it/where it started.
 
I had a 6g setup with two damsels and two clown fish and didnt have issue,just dont over feed. Also i never did water change, i just top it off. I remove the sponge filter n i place small live rocks it. I would say it did good since pink coraline algea grew.
 
You never add salt, as salt doesn't evaporate.

If you never do a water change, your salinity only increases as fresh water evaporates and salt is left behind. When you add topoff water of pure water ONLY, it brings the salinity to where you wanted it/where it started

Makes sense. That's so cool that no salt is lost at all. Thanks!

MizTanks, seems like good advice to me!

aznflyfisherman, sounds like your filter was a lot like what I'm thinking of doing. Glad to hear it worked out for you!
 
After 4years I finally did a full water n using ro water n planning to have fish n corals this time. Remove some live rock to make room for corals.

image.jpg
 
I hope things are working out for you so far. If you haven't seen my thread go ahead and check it out in the nano forums, Fluval Edge 6gal Reef conversion. It is a little more advanced of a setup than I think you are planning but it sounds like the concept is fairly similar with mostly coral and other inverts. I do however disagree that there are some really cool nano fish available to the market that have great potential in smaller tanks. But if your interest lies with inverts I think going that route is just bueno. I have a friend that has a 3x 40 breeder aio that is dialed in where he doesn't do any feeding or water changes but still manages to grow an insane amount of coral. He just adds what needs to be added to the tank to keep things healthy. On the 6gal, that is what Im trying to accomplish, low feeding until the system basically takes care of itself producing food stock. We are also doing very little water changes because it is such a small tank. The big difference from your tank and the 6gal is the sump. With an extra eight gallons for plant growth we can strip most nitrates and PO4 from the aquarium. It would be like having an 80gal refugium on a 60gal coral tank. Maybe you should consider adding a sump to the aquarium if you have the room, and using proper balance of nutrients with just a return pump and light. You could be surprised at what will thrive with very little additions of food. Just my two cents.
 
Thanks for the input, Griffin! I've been keeping a close eye on your thread. I would love a sump but I'm going to give it a shot without one, as I am a little tight on space where I want to put the aquarium. If it goes downhill fast I'm prepared to switch things over to a more complicated yet traditional set up and I'll likely use your thread to help me with that.

I actually picked up a ten gallon on clearance, so I'll be going with that instead of my old 7.9g. So I'm back open to small goby suggestions!
 
have you seen griessingeri gobies? Fairy expensive but an absolute show stopper with a nano tank. I think if they are the only fish wth peaceful corals/inverts they could be very active. Most will argue that they are shy and rarely seen but with a proper setup you could have great success. Also if you want something a little more dynamic an ORA pygmy spotted filefish might be cool, but prepare yourself for possible nipping at corals and inverts. We are trying one now in the 6gal and checking its temperament. When it gets larger its being moved to my 180gal macro tank.
 
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