I have had a 120 gallon reef tank with sand (aragonite / Red Sea) set up since May 08. I have been having a nitrate problem ever since I could remember. My nitrites, PH, AK and ammonia are all in check. I cut back on the feeding. I ran DE-Nitrate thru a phosban canister. I did massive water changes. Nothing was / is working. I then added an RO/DI unit which did positive things for my tank but, not for the nitrates. I was told (by the LSF) that the reason why I have a nitrate issue is because of the sand in the aquarium. Reluctantly - I removed the sand (that was hell). I still have the nitrate problem. Now I am being told that I should remove my bio-balls (3 gallons) over a period of 3-4 weeks. I have about 200 lbs of live rock in the tank and the sump. Should I remove my bio-balls? I do not know what else to do. I am always up for a challenge ... but, I have had enough. I am not ready to give up. Can anyone offer any resolution?
NITRATE issue that I can not solve
- Thread starter RSOMOGYI
- Start date
kraze3
New member
There are many things that could be contributing to the problem. Start with the basics like removing those bio balls. If you ahve any filer socks, or pads give them a thorough cleaning. WHat are your nitrates reading right now? If they are very high a decent size water change will bring them down some. A few of these changes over time will help to drop the numbers. Are there any dead spots in the tank were waste can be building up? How many fish do you have and how much do you feed.
As Denbf58 said above cheato in the sump will deff help. There are other actions that can be taken to help such as adding a RDSB to the system. FIrst start with the easy stuff.
As Denbf58 said above cheato in the sump will deff help. There are other actions that can be taken to help such as adding a RDSB to the system. FIrst start with the easy stuff.
I have no filter socks. The filer pads are changed daily and washed in the washing machine with bleach(no soap) and air dried.
My nitrates are near/over 200.
I have been doing about 30/50 gallon water changes, just recently I changed all 120 gallons when I removed the sand. I didn't change out the sump water which would be 35 gallons.
I really do not have any dead spots as I do try to move the position of my powers heads time to time, to change the flow. I have 8 fish in the tank. I do not overfeed. I am careful with thefeeding.
My nitrates are near/over 200.
I have been doing about 30/50 gallon water changes, just recently I changed all 120 gallons when I removed the sand. I didn't change out the sump water which would be 35 gallons.
I really do not have any dead spots as I do try to move the position of my powers heads time to time, to change the flow. I have 8 fish in the tank. I do not overfeed. I am careful with thefeeding.
I want to get someone else on this board to try a tank build with NO sump, just a canister filter with the eheim substrate and some seachem matrix rocks in the canister.... my tank is thriving and requires little work...
Are your bio balls the colored plastic type? or the tiny rock type?
Are your bio balls the colored plastic type? or the tiny rock type?
fitlerreef
New member
Bioballs are extremely efficient at aerobic filtration: they are designed to hold bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Nitrate removal only occurs through one of three mechanisms: 1) anaerobic bacteria conversion to nitrogen gas (this occurs in the denser parts of live rock, but not at all in bioballs); 2) nutrient export, through mechanisms such as algae growth; 3) water changes.
There is no chemical media for saltwater tanks that can export nitrate.
I would suggest the following:
1) slowly remove your bioballs. This will move the aerobic filtration to your live rock, where anerobic processes can keep up better to convert out the nitrate.
2) keep up with 20% water changes or so until the bioballs are gone. Then, perform larger water changes using procedures as recommended by folks like Melev.
3) Check your phosphates. I would guess that they will also be very high, unless you're using a phosphate removal media - like PhosBan.
4) If your phosphates are high, add a ferric oxide removal media - either in a reactor or just toss something like chemi-pure elite in your sump.
5) check your skimmer. is it working properly? it should be removing some dissolved organics that would otherwise end up as nitrate.
6) consider adding some ionic media, like Purigen, Bio Chem Zorb or Chemi-Pure elite. This will NOT decrease nitrates, but it will help you to keep nitrates at a lower level by adsorbing some organic compounds that would otherwise be converted to nitrate.
7) if at all possible, get some macro algae growing in your sump. this uses nitrate as "food" and therefore exports nitrate from your tank.
I hope this helps.
There is no chemical media for saltwater tanks that can export nitrate.
I would suggest the following:
1) slowly remove your bioballs. This will move the aerobic filtration to your live rock, where anerobic processes can keep up better to convert out the nitrate.
2) keep up with 20% water changes or so until the bioballs are gone. Then, perform larger water changes using procedures as recommended by folks like Melev.
3) Check your phosphates. I would guess that they will also be very high, unless you're using a phosphate removal media - like PhosBan.
4) If your phosphates are high, add a ferric oxide removal media - either in a reactor or just toss something like chemi-pure elite in your sump.
5) check your skimmer. is it working properly? it should be removing some dissolved organics that would otherwise end up as nitrate.
6) consider adding some ionic media, like Purigen, Bio Chem Zorb or Chemi-Pure elite. This will NOT decrease nitrates, but it will help you to keep nitrates at a lower level by adsorbing some organic compounds that would otherwise be converted to nitrate.
7) if at all possible, get some macro algae growing in your sump. this uses nitrate as "food" and therefore exports nitrate from your tank.
I hope this helps.
Jerm77
New member
I am in agreement with fitlerreef.
here is an article on nitrate in the reef aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm
while their are denitrifing products on the market, I wouldn't use them as most would probably report little success. I am not really sure how well some of the sulfur denitrators work either.
you do need some type of nitrate export. regular water changes, macro algae (i.e. cheto), or bacterial. you can try a little more advanced approach like organic carbon dosing(i.e. sugar, vodka, or vinegar)
before you try carbon dosing - I suggest you read and understand what you are about to do. ask questions and get some answers. and don't overdose. especially on the vodka
here is a thread on sugar dosing.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=898931
here is an article on vodka dosing
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/
I believe I have had success with vodka dosing. but, I do have a sand bed and a small RDSB. this may have facilitated the growth denitrifing bacteria. but before carbon dosing in my past aquariums, I was never able to achieve 0 nitrate.
here is an article on nitrate in the reef aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm
while their are denitrifing products on the market, I wouldn't use them as most would probably report little success. I am not really sure how well some of the sulfur denitrators work either.
you do need some type of nitrate export. regular water changes, macro algae (i.e. cheto), or bacterial. you can try a little more advanced approach like organic carbon dosing(i.e. sugar, vodka, or vinegar)
before you try carbon dosing - I suggest you read and understand what you are about to do. ask questions and get some answers. and don't overdose. especially on the vodka
here is a thread on sugar dosing.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=898931
here is an article on vodka dosing
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/
I believe I have had success with vodka dosing. but, I do have a sand bed and a small RDSB. this may have facilitated the growth denitrifing bacteria. but before carbon dosing in my past aquariums, I was never able to achieve 0 nitrate.
My sand bed was only about at the max 2 inches. My nitrate reading was about 200. The bio balls are plastic spheres on the larger size. (almost half dollar size)I will have to check my phosphates. I am missing that information. I have added purigen to the sump in a bag about 2 weks ago. I have a Bermuda skimmer that is skimming well. I really do not want to go without the sand. I would like to add it back in again. I will have to read up on this dosing. I will start to remove my bio-balls (slowly). These things seem like a bad idea from the start. Thanks for the support ... What is a remote deep sand bed?
Are you bio balls active or passive in your sump? Removing them may help- but putting some seachem matrix rocks (similiar to bio balls) in an active filtration (water gets pushed THROUGH the rocks instead of near the rocks) will reduce nitrates.
I have some in a canister filter and it burps nitrogen every 15-30 minutes or so...
I have some in a canister filter and it burps nitrogen every 15-30 minutes or so...
I tested my water again this morning.
Phospate .25
Nitrate about 120+
This waw using my API Reef testing kit.
I will start removing my Bio-Balls.
What is Passive and Active Bio-Balls?
My filtration is set up as such:
This is how the water flows.
(I have this all in a 5 gallon bucket.)
Course filter pad (not treated)
Fine filter pad (not treated)
egg crate (white plastic square
Bio-Balls
Egg crate
space
The water then flows out the sides of the bucket and into the sump - In the sump I have about 25-30 lbs of live rock.
(I have this all in a 5 gallon bucket.)
I have a small pump in the sump that circulates within the sump.
It flows as such:
UV Light
DE-Nitrate
Carbon
back into sump
Phospate .25
Nitrate about 120+
This waw using my API Reef testing kit.
I will start removing my Bio-Balls.
What is Passive and Active Bio-Balls?
My filtration is set up as such:
This is how the water flows.
(I have this all in a 5 gallon bucket.)
Course filter pad (not treated)
Fine filter pad (not treated)
egg crate (white plastic square
Bio-Balls
Egg crate
space
The water then flows out the sides of the bucket and into the sump - In the sump I have about 25-30 lbs of live rock.
(I have this all in a 5 gallon bucket.)
I have a small pump in the sump that circulates within the sump.
It flows as such:
UV Light
DE-Nitrate
Carbon
back into sump
