Nitrate Reduction 101 with sugar!!!

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9349696#post9349696 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by archie1709
I wouldn't say it is "totally" irrelevant. You may wish to ignore certain things with it, fine. You argued that the reason for the sugar was the algae present due to run-offs. Fine. That's what the article said.

But it specifically said that sugars promote growth of certain bacteria that kills or weakens the coral. So it doesn't matter whether the sugar came from a spoon in your kitchen or the fleshy algae. You can argue "complex sugar this, complex sugar that, simple sugar this, mono-whatever that". The fact is that sugars present in the reef tank promots growth of bacteria that kills or weakens the coral.

Not directly related? Sure. But TOTALLY irrelevant? I dunno

\

OOOORRRRRR< it could be the high nitrates and phosphates in the runoff that is causing the corals to be more prone to bacterial infection. Thres no control here. The author of the study is making a supposition that his data doesnt really support.

 

[cweder]

Anyone get bleaching from dosing sugar or vodka? After my nitrates got to zero, my clams and mushrooms bleached out. I was only dosing 1 or 2 teaspoons daily for 500 gallons. I stopped for a while not being sure what caused the bleaching. I thought the lighting was too strong for the mushrooms but should have been fine for the clams. I also thought the flow was too strong but now I think my nutrients were so low the mushrooms and clams were starving. Starting again after two months and noticed the same thing. Now the nitrates are staying down without any further dosing after adding a deep sand bed refugium. I liked the dosing because I believe it took down phosphates very well along with the nitrates. Anyone else have any side effects.

 

[John Kelly]

Personally, I think everyone is dosing WAY TOO MUCH sugar than they need to be; maybe that's why this thread just died. The effects of 1 teaspoon in a 55g lasts for months. The long term effect of a single dosing is visible on hair algae as the algae slowly loses its "roots" or grip over time on the substrate that it is attached to. I haven't noticed an effect on bubble algae, but I do realize that the effects of a single dosing are much longer than people think. A little bit of patience is required for it to work; ....and not blasting a tank into an instant bacterial bloom.

 

[thriceanangel]

But I believe that the theory goes like this:

Add sugar which
Causes bacterial bloom that feed on the excess carbon
As carbon is consumed, and depleted- a matter of hours not days bacteria then consume nitrates
Bacteria dies off when nitrates are depleted (24-48 hours)
dead bacteria are skimmed out through protein skimmer

The added sugar and bacteria bloom is gone in a relatively short time, so I don't see how it affects the tank for a longer period of time, but feel free to explain why you believe that.

I think that this thread has dwindled because, like most threads that fizzle out, there isn't much more to cover. Either you believe that it works and isn't harmful, or you don't. It does remove nitrates, and it doesn't cause any harm, at least that has been anecdotally documented. The amounts that you dose will certainly vary from system to system. A good starting point is a half teaspoon per 50 gallons or so.

 

[jennmac415]

my nitrates continue to be at 0... I have been dosing a couple of months now... I am down to every other day and they stay at 0....they started way off the color chart, say 160 or so...long story...don't ask...you can find it somewhere in this looonnnggg thread...things are doing great! No bleaching or ill effects that I have seen...my skimmate does smell especially putrid though lol

 

[asnatlas]

I have about 900gal of total water volume... What would be a good daily dosage to start with ?? 1/2 tbs, or would I need more ??

 

[thriceanangel]

Um a 5 gallon bucket!

I don't know about large systems, but I'd think that the 1/4 teaspoon per 50 gallons would work fine as a starting point. Watch and measure from that point and adjust as you see what the NO3 does.

I think that you'd be fine with 1 tablespoon for sure, as that's what I dosed in my tank which was 100 gallons total volume, and I made it out intact although I was unnerved. But you might need more.

 

[John Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9867006#post9867006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thriceanangel
The added sugar and bacteria bloom is gone in a relatively short time, so I don't see how it affects the tank for a longer period of time, but feel free to explain why you believe that.

Because some people who initially dose a too high amount of sugar in the first couple of days, hoping for a visible bacterial bloom or not seeing their nitrates drop instantly, may not have a continually reoccurring nitrate problem. The initial dose is not relative to tank size, or gallons of water, it is relative to nitrate production at the source, which is usually an unknown source and at an unknown rate.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9249862#post9249862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thriceanangel
..........What I did was to initially overdose ( wrong way to go ) so I don't know how fast they decline from a high amount.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185324#post9185324 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thriceanangel
........My mistake was they dropped from 130ppm to 20 in a day. Everything in the tank what like "What The Freak just happened??"

As you witnessed yourself, the nitrates have a tendency to drop fast and far. This is where the "effect over time" enters in. Drop your nitrates too far without much of a source and you may end up making the same observations as cweder (quote below) and others have. The test kits may show "0" nitrates, but how close can sugar dosing take nitrate levels to true "0"? How long nitrates remain at or near that level is relative to the source and it takes time to establish an estimated rate of nitrate production at the source (or sources). That is why I believe it is better to work slowly and dose lightly over a period of months instead of seeking instant gratification.
Cweder is not the only one who has witnessed the following observation:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9855172#post9855172 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cweder
Anyone get bleaching from dosing sugar or vodka? After my nitrates got to zero, my clams and mushrooms bleached out.
......I think my nutrients were so low the mushrooms and clams were starving. Starting again after two months and noticed the same thing.

 

[robitreef]

Has anyone tried this that had dinoflagellates taking over their tank? By robbing the nitrate, have you seen a reduction in the dinos?

 

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9868453#post9868453 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robitreef
Has anyone tried this that had dinoflagellates taking over their tank? By robbing the nitrate, have you seen a reduction in the dinos?

Sugar Did nothing to kill the the dinos in my tank.
Clean tank did the job for me when i said clean is to clean everything out if you have sand bed clean it or replace it if you have BB pick the rocks and clean under them or better yet elevate the rock so you can clean under it often.
That and total light out for six days work for me after fighting with dinos for a year.

 

[thriceanangel]

I've always maintained that I dosed way too much at first. And that if you see a visible bloom, it's too much. You're right in that it depends on the NO3 source. That is why I recommend a starting dose of 1/4 tsp / 50 gallons- then wait and test before changing the dosage. That amount sure should not deplete the tank of all nutrients, but should in fact give you an initial drop, and then a slower decline over time. Usually you will see levels plateau off at some point and you may need to up the dosage then.

Conversely, if you see a bacterial bloom, it's too much- add aeration and skim like crazy, and keep a close eye on pH & ammonia. The bacteria will settle when they die as detritis and will actually cause your NO3 level to rapidly rebound. But I seriously doubt if anyone dosing this amount would ever experience this

 

[bohannbj]

This whole thing is a simple process called glycolysis. It is a chemical reaction that uses the bonds in glucose to fuel ATP (cellular energy) production. It is the first step in photosynthesis and the only process for anerobic respiration. This will help feed all things in your tank, not just anaerobic bacteria. If you really want to make the process work, get real glucose.

 

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9881930#post9881930 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bohannbj
If you really want to make the process work, get real glucose.

I would guess that if you did dose glucose, you would not need as much since more "pure" ??

Where would one be able to get glucose cost effectively, locally or even web ??

 

[yeniraki]

you dont need pure glucose, even vodka works. Organic carbon like alcohol, fructose etc would work perfect aswell
Any body find a solution for cyano bloom? Adding bicarbonate helped but although slower they are still growing. I wish I had a pH monitor.

 

[bohannbj]

You are right asnatlas. I would just check online. I think I saw some at wally world. By the way, fructose is very different and grape vodka is fructose too, and potato vodka is a polysaccharide instead of a monosaccharide.

 

[sharonbm76]

After almost 3 years with 50-80ppm nitrate I start to dose sugar.
after 4 days the skimmer works harder, I think it is good sign.
I will keep dose for another week then I will monitor the nitrate again.

 

[nemo2007]

Yeniraki, my cyano production is not enough to feed a lawnmawer blenny in my 55G tank.
Keep this fish, very..very..very effective to clean the cyano...

 

[Reefmack]

Hi all. I've been reading this post off & on (most of my RC reading time is at work, in between things). Save me a bit of time so that I can avoid having to go through all 20+ pages - what would be a safe place to start with the sugar in a 34 g. tank - I'm thinking about 1/8 tsp.? Does it go in daily, every other day, weekly?

My nitrates were only 5 on my last test a week ago, but 0 would be nice.


Thanks.

 

[thriceanangel]

I really wouldn't bother. Nitrates at 5 is acceptable, and some may say more ideal than 0. If you did I would do like a 1/16 tsp and do it daily or every other day. But I wouldn't dose sugar unless I was over 20-30ppm nitrates.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9354982#post9354982 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Kelly
....or, the corals are affected by the change in water clarity.

Water clarity isnt an issue. Even with dirty tanks adding carbon. The difference is never more than 5% increase in light levels. If that was enough to kill corals, you'd never be able to replace bulbs without shading,etc.

I've never shaded lamps when getting new bulbs.