no luck lately

[Kathy55g]

After tremendous success raising a batch of 550, I have had nothing but bad luck. Next nest was significantly smaller, about 150, but they mostly lived, and are doing well.


Next nest was even smaller, and most of them looked lifeless in the snagger, and died shortly after. I have only 11 survivors....but they are very cute, and I love them. 14 days old .

Last night, another nest hatched, this time a larger nest, and again, lifeless bodies in the bottom of the snagger. Very few swimmers this morning. They look thin and without reserves. Not swimming with enthusiasm. When I added rotifers and phyto this morning, it seemed to kill off more of them. I checked pH and salinity, temperature still matches the broodstock tank. There is no ammonia yet. Something is wrong.

My broodstock tank has recently recovered from a massive red cyano outbreak. I wonder if there is a toxic residue left that is affecting the larvae. I did a 90% water change during the egg incubation period, but perhaps it was too late. I don't have much hope for this batch.

Any thoughts?

 

[Kmiec123]

How long has that pair been producing Kathy?

 

[mwp]

Any dietary or other changes besides the Cyano outbreak? What did you use to control the cyano?

Matt

 

[Kathy55g]

They've been producing wonderful nests since March of last year.

Diet is the same.

To control the cyano, I put a sump for the 20 gallon broodstock tank with additional live rock (there is a lot in the broodstock tank) a trickle filter and cheato, added a protein skimmer, a PURA filtration pad and a 100 micron pad. Then I started siphoning the cyano daily and changing the 100 micron pad daily. That is what produced the most dramatic change. It took about 3 weeks. Not really sure it was the husbandry that did the trick. Cyano goes in cycles, I've heard, and it may have run its course.

 

[Kathy55g]

The thing that gets me is they have the strength to swim to the light and enter the snagger, but 30 minutes later, they are lifeless in the bottom of the box. The snagger is not killing them, as I've used it successfully for all other hatches in my system. Well over 1000 fish have survived the snagger.

I looked at some of the dead ones under the scope. They appear to have no yolk at all. Perhaps it is something in the parent's diet that has gone bad. I'm going to redo their food stocks.

 

[mwp]

Maybe temperature has changed? Are they taking any longer to hatch (i.e. on day 9 instead of 8)? Raising my percs tank temp definitely helped with hatching (and probably egg development too). I noticed that Batch VIII eggs on my percs weren't quite as vibrant orange as prior batches...diet definitely plays a role...

Of course, I'm just playing devil's advocate here...you have much more experience under your belt!

Matt

 

[Kathy55g]

They actually hatched a day early. They looked ready so I put the snagger in, but the last batch took a day longer to hatch.
It's a tad warmer in the basement, and the temperature was 1degree higher in the tank than last time.

This would have helped them have a larger yolk, IME. It did not.

The dozen or so live ones are not yet eating well. I think this one may be a wash.....

 

[Elmo18]

Hi Kathy!

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.

What are you feeding the parents at this point?

Best,
Ilham

 

[Kathy55g]

Ocean Nutrition formulas 1 & 2, dry and frozen, cyclopeeze, mysis, spirulina brine shrimp. Alternating. They get fed at least 2 x per day. Once to saturation.

 

[Kmiec123]

I Defiantly am not a pro, just trying to help with a thought...I belive I read of pairs taking a natural break, I just have no idea if they just don't spawn or start with weak ones. I guess anyone with familiarity to breaks can add in. Wish I had more to help Kathy. Best of luck..Carl

 

[billsreef]

Can you alter the lighting on their tank? I'd suggest reducing the photo period and trying to rest the pair, while feeding them plenty. You also might want to try one of the larger sizes of otohime in the diet of the adults.

 

[Kathy55g]

Carl, it is Winter, and in Hoff's book they say that their success rate decreases with the season. You may have something there.

Thanks Bill, those are good suggestions.

 

[mwp]

Kathy, do you supplement those feeds at all (i.e. I rotate between soaking frozen feeds in Selcon, Reef Plus, or a dusting of Vibrance II)?

Matt

 

[Kathy55g]

Nope. Not yet.

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

Kathy

I would conclude that the broodstock feeding needs to be revised. Meaning adding any of the additives available in the US to boost the vitality of the parents. IMHO specially the missing or smal yolk sack referes to poor nutritient levels of the parents.

 

[aomont]

Kathy, regarding parents feeding have heard/read two comments: 1) Feeding the parents couple hours before spawning increase larvae quality (maybe rearrenging feeding schedule can help); 2) Astaxanthine in the female diet increase its content in the eggs and inprove hatchability and larvae quality (not that hard to try since you´ve being doing it for the juveniles)

Anderson.

 

[Kathy55g]

Well, there were about 20 still alive yesterday morning, though thin, and appeared not to be eating, despite clearly adequate rots and phyto.

This morning they were all dead, day three, coincident with a red cyano bloom in the larval tank, a thing I have never seen before.

The only other time I have seen larvae fail to eat rotifers was when my clownfish egg supplier treated his tank, in the presence of the nest, with chemi clean to eradicate, you guessed it, cyano.

 

[Kathy55g]

One of my local clubs is leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth, so I'm going to post this in hopes it will make me feel better.

There, just look at the fish, Kathy.

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

Kathy,

did you breed already fish same time last year? If yes and you had no problems then forget. If not maybe yiu should consider seasonal water quality problems? In some areas we have that in Europe, but of course have no clue if there are similar cases in the US.

 

[Kathy55g]

Hi Peter,
Actually, I did not have a breeding pair this time last year, but my friend did, and gave me the eggs on a tile. I had pretty good luck with them this time last year. Water quality in St. Louis is usually pretty good year round, with some fluctuations in ammonia, but I use a DI system for the broodstock and larvae that takes that out.