Nam Nguyen
Member
here you go. one full tank shot on 1/23/1011:
my new coral from yesterday
)
that's it.
my new coral from yesterday
)
that's it.
No need for additives???
- Thread starter Verti
- Start date
Scooter902
New member
Wow nice tank. I really don't know how you do it. My alk will drop a point a day if I don't dose. I wish I didn't have to dose my tank. Do you get any growth? Are you running a calc reactor and just not dosing any additives?
Brian Chong
New member
i could see it being possible with your tank Nam but not an sps dominated reef tank
My first tank was mostly lps and soft with a few sps. not as nice as Nam's but it was ok. never dosed. just used ph buffer in top off and weekly water changes.
My first tank was mostly lps and soft with a few sps. not as nice as Nam's but it was ok. never dosed. just used ph buffer in top off and weekly water changes.
Nam Nguyen
Member
maybe im lucky buddy. i just let it go and take it easy. i dont want to test it because when i test if i see something wrong i need to spend money on all kind of stuff. yeah i run carbon and GFO. i dont have big money for calc reactor. actualy from very being i dose A-B by the time it out im stop intill now.
Brian Chong
New member
What is gfo? i dont add anything except alk cal and mag with a dosing pump. i try to keep it simple as possible and minimize any margin of user error as much as possible. that with good flow and 10% weekly water change is the key to my success. i test once a week or more and adjusting for the growth of my corals takes a few seconds by dialing a number on my dosing pump.
this hobby is saturated with useless snake oil promising instant fix and all kinds of great colors. makes sps keeping intimidating for the beginner.
d0ughb0y
Active member
here you go. one full tank shot on 1/23/1011:
my new coral from yesterday
that's it.
looks good.
I take it all you did since say sept 2009 till today (from the last picture to the picture today) is water change using reef crystals only, I want to know what your tank's current calcium level is. that information will tell us at what calcium level a tank can still look good.
thanks
Nam Nguyen
Member
sorry i never test so i dont have the test kit like( calc, kalswasser, mg, or something like that) i will let you know if i can find someone to ask for one test on my local reefer.
allsps40
New member
This is a poor reef practice. I bet if you tested your water things would be off.
DustinB
New member
You can't really say this without any account for actual usage of a given tank. When I started my 90g I went 6 months without ever needing to dose anything, doing 15% water changes every 2 weeks.
After a while, as I started collecting more and more SPS and it started growing fairly well, only then did I really start having to dose. Now after almost a year I'm consuming about 1.4dKH/day.
One thing you have to keep in mind is the salt being used. For example, the salt I was using(reef crystals) has elevated cal/alk/mag. If you have a very small uptake then it is very likely water changes alone could take care of it. Though any fair amount of stony growth will eventually require supplementation.
d0ughb0y
Active member
As long as there is consumption, it does not matter if your water change salt mix has elevated ca/alk/mg, it will run out eventually. you can do the math.
as a hypothetical example.
say you have 10 gallons using a mix with 10unit element X.
for a 10% water change, you are changing 1 gallon with fresh 1 unit element X.
so lets say the consumption is less than 1 unit, say 0.5 unit.
so after one week, the tank will only contain 9.5 units of element X.
when you do the water change, you remove 1 gallon, leaving 9 gallons with 8.55 units of element X (90% of 9.5). Then you put in your fresh 1 gallon with 1 unit, so you now end up with 10 gallons at 9.55 units only. Hardly replenishing the original level of 10 units.
No matter how small the consumption, sooner or later, just doing water change will reduce the element to about the contents in the amount of the water changed.
Now what I am trying to see from Nam's case is, based on the hypothetical scenario, if all he does is just water change, and eventually the tank will only contain 1+ unit of element X, and since the tank consumes 0.5 units, that it continues to thrive. That is why I want to know the current CA level in his tank.
d0ughb0y
Active member
I would not say poor reef practice off the bat.
you can see plenty of examples of people following the "norm" with a lot worse tanks. I would consider mine worse that his. how would you compare yours?
I would just say, his practice is different from the "norm", and perhaps the norm may be proven wrong (or at least introduce a simplier alternative way), which could potentially change the hobby.
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d0ughb0y
Active member
BTW, I did notice when I compare the before and after FTS, that there was hardly any growth. The size of the colonies are about the same (it does not look like it got pruned since the patterns are very similar). depending on how you look at it, this can be good or bad. but the fact that it did not deteriorate is worth noting.
if the alk goes down, then the tank would lose the ability to buffer ph to around 8. maybe that is the case. hence parameter values for the tank will answer some questions.
if the alk goes down, then the tank would lose the ability to buffer ph to around 8. maybe that is the case. hence parameter values for the tank will answer some questions.
Brian Chong
New member
Not providing or testing for the elements that are needed for these corals to grow and thrive is poor reef husbandry whether yours looks worse or not.
Brian Chong
New member
as you were, cor:irregardless if yours looks worse
d0ughb0y
Active member
I am just trying to find a logical explanation how water change only is able to keep the tank from deteriorating (we are assuming all statements and claims made so far are true).
Nam does provide the needed elements to some degree.
its like if you need $5 everyday to buy lunch, you will be able to buy lunch if you have $5 in your pocket or $420 in your pocket. What we consider normal is to carry 420, but maybe just putting 25 in the pocket once a week will work?
Brian Chong
New member
if you wanna have lunch at a roach coach be my guest, i prefer having my lunch at a steakhouse
A farmer from bali once said approx. 80 or 90 percent of the corals in the wild arent colored up as nice as the ones in our tanks. sure they will live with a less than optimum level of elements but they wont be the same as acros growing in a tank with 8-9 alk, 400-460 ca and 1300-1500 mag
A farmer from bali once said approx. 80 or 90 percent of the corals in the wild arent colored up as nice as the ones in our tanks. sure they will live with a less than optimum level of elements but they wont be the same as acros growing in a tank with 8-9 alk, 400-460 ca and 1300-1500 mag
Brian Chong
New member
btw, nams corals have been acclimated to whatever his levels may be and thats the reason he feels his tank is doing well. But when we talk about keeping an sps tank, they have more stringent requirements when it comes to alk ca mag.
DustinB
New member
You are still assuming you are replacing the water with new water containing the same levels. I don't have time to work the math right now but let's take reef crystals for example. Say you want to maintain a calcium level of 420ppm. Reef Crystals apparently contains 490ppm. While the uptake would have to be very minute, I would guess the higher level makeup water could compensate for that.
Now to say if that small of any uptake is truly possible for any extended length of time is a matter in itself. Though I can attest it did take me almost 6 months before I was at a level that I needed to dose. This was after I started getting a fair amount of stony corals that started to grow. Before this was mostly softies and a couple LPS.
Just thinking out loud...
allsps40
New member
BTW, I did notice when I compare the before and after FTS, that there was hardly any growth. The size of the colonies are about the same (it does not look like it got pruned since the patterns are very similar). depending on how you look at it, this can be good or bad. but the fact that it did not deteriorate is worth noting.
I was thinking the same thing in fact it looks like the exact same pic as the other. There should have been some change since 09, corals growing, things moved around, the clam should be a lot bigger after over a year things like that. It is a very nice looking tank dont get me wrong. Here is a pic of my tank in 09 and one a few weeks old.
You can see the major changes in the corals and in well everything in over 2 years. I have moved corals around some in same place, some died, others I parted with ect. When my tank was new I had no need to dose. After about 9-12 months the need to dose ca and alk became apparent as my corals where starting to really grow. Oh and I had already been dosing 2 part for a while when the first pic was taken. I now dose kalk, it is easier imo.
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