Normal testing perimeters during a cycle

[HelloOcean]

Hi guys!

I just got my 55 gallon up and running, and I'm a little confused about the cycle process. Yesterday I went down to my lfs, picked up ~58lbs of live rock, 40lbs of live sand, and about a cup and a half of sand from one of their established tanks. I've been slowly raising the temp, at about 85f right now, and I have about as much agitation on the surface as possible with my two power heads.

When I tested everything yesterday evening, ammonia, nitrates, and nitrates were all at zero. Testing just an hour ago, I got ammonia somewhere between 0-0.25, nitrates 0, and nitrites at 20. Using API. Salinity is 1.025, couldn't tell you the ph because my tester is coming in a few days.

So my questions are:
1. There's no way my tank could be almost finished cycling, is there?

2. Can anyone tell me or send me a guide as to what general ammonia, nitrate and nitrite spikes look like through a cycle so l have an idea as to what to look for?

I've done a decent amount of digging but can't find the answers to these questions.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Member No. 1]

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I've been slowly raising the temp, at about 85f right now,


I've done a decent amount of digging but can't find the answers to these questions.

Thanks in advance!

Welcome to Reef Central!

A. 85* is much to warm. You want to be in the 77-79* range
B. At the top of this very forum is a sticky that will answer most if not all of your questions.

CYCLING isn't the end of it: Water parameters: a quick reference
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2588686

 

[mcgyvr]

The point of (or need to) cycling a tank is to build up sufficient bacterial population so that toxic ammonia can be processed quickly..
When you buy locally sourced "live" rock the "live" means that its already populated with bacteria.. As such there will be little to no cycle.. The bacterial populations are already there...
The reason they have "live rock" sitting in bins at your local fish store is so that you can buy a tank/water/rock/fish and take it all home that day and instantly set it up and avoid the long cycling process..

So again... because you bought live rock (locally sourced) you won't have a cycle provided that you got that rock into a tank quick enough that little bacterial population was lost..

And yes.. why 85? Thats too hot.. Typically you should shoot for 78-80deg F..

 

[Rover88]

Hi guys!
Testing just an hour ago, I got ammonia somewhere between 0-0.25, nitrates 0, and nitrites at 20. Using API.

I have never with my API kit seen a 'zero' ammonia reading. Its never been straight yellow for me, even when testing RODI water. Also, API's 'Master' test kit isn't for saltwater, so it may turn cloudy and/or give you lies as a reading. They do make a specific saltwater one though that you might have.

Between yesterday and today there is very little reason your ammonia should have gone up. Unless you dumped an army of fish in, or there was a lot of 'die-off' from the live rock.

If the live rock was the sort covered in little goodies and critters, you might experience an ammonia lift from the die-off if there was a long hot drive or something of the sort. But if it was just rock that was culturing in a tub so that it was live, you won't.

Congratulations and welcome to Reef Central!

 

[HelloOcean]

Welcome to Reef Central!

A. 85* is much to warm. You want to be in the 77-79* range
B. At the top of this very forum is a sticky that will answer most if not all of your questions.

CYCLING isn't the end of it: Water parameters: a quick reference
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2588686

Thanks! I read on a few places that if you increase the temperature (some even referenced as high as 90*) That it would speed up the cycle. But you're not the first to question that so I've already decreased the temp by a degree and will continue through the day.

I have gone through that sticky a few times, and I found that it had a lot of great information in there regarding parameters, but I did not find anything about what I would expect to see in a cycle. I.E, is an ammonia spike anything above 0? Should I expect to see it go up as high as 4.0?

 

[HelloOcean]

The point of (or need to) cycling a tank is to build up sufficient bacterial population so that toxic ammonia can be processed quickly..
When you buy locally sourced "live" rock the "live" means that its already populated with bacteria.. As such there will be little to no cycle.. The bacterial populations are already there...
The reason they have "live rock" sitting in bins at your local fish store is so that you can buy a tank/water/rock/fish and take it all home that day and instantly set it up and avoid the long cycling process..

So again... because you bought live rock (locally sourced) you won't have a cycle provided that you got that rock into a tank quick enough that little bacterial population was lost..

And yes.. why 85? Thats too hot.. Typically you should shoot for 78-80deg F..

Thank you for the info! That is exactly what the live rock was. Sitting in bins at the store, but I also bought "live sand". And I was under the impression that there would be a lot of dead bacteria in there, considering that it was bagged and been sitting on a shelf. Is that not the case with live sand? The drive was very short and both the sand and the rock went into the tank almost immediately.

The 85* was to try to speed up the life cycle of the bacteria to decrease the amount of time a cycle would take, but considering that might not even be necessary now... :rollface:

 

[HelloOcean]

I have never with my API kit seen a 'zero' ammonia reading. Its never been straight yellow for me, even when testing RODI water. Also, API's 'Master' test kit isn't for saltwater, so it may turn cloudy and/or give you lies as a reading. They do make a specific saltwater one though that you might have.

Between yesterday and today there is very little reason your ammonia should have gone up. Unless you dumped an army of fish in, or there was a lot of 'die-off' from the live rock.

If the live rock was the sort covered in little goodies and critters, you might experience an ammonia lift from the die-off if there was a long hot drive or something of the sort. But if it was just rock that was culturing in a tub so that it was live, you won't.

Congratulations and welcome to Reef Central!

Thanks for the welcome!

No fish in the tank yet. Rock was in the tub and the drive was short and the rock went straight into the tank. But the "live sand" was in a bag, sitting on the shelf, which I expected to have a decent amount of dead bacteria in it. Maybe that's incorrect?

I know API isn't great, but after everything I bought I didn't have the extra cash for a decent kit, but that's coming with the next pay check! I didn't get the Master Kit, I bought the individual tests that are labeled as "salt and fresh water", soooooo... most likely not getting an accurate reading. Thank you for the info!

 

[Rover88]

Yeah, I haven't upgraded yet. I only need to know pretty much 'is there Ammonia?' or 'is there not Ammonia?'.

What I did was I took something I KNOW had no Ammonia (freshly mixed salt mix in RODI) and looked at the color. So long as my real tests look about the same color as that, I'm calling it good.

I haven't tested Ammonia in my tank since cycling, so I'm not worried!

Live sand is.... well, most people call it a waste. I've never used it. I figured live rock was good enough, my sand was all dry.

 

[mcgyvr]

But the "live sand" was in a bag, sitting on the shelf, which I expected to have a decent amount of dead bacteria in it. Maybe that's incorrect?

Going back to my first post the key word there was "sufficient" bacterial population.. While there can certainly be a decent amount of die off in a bag of "um" live sand sitting on a shelf typically there is likely "sufficient" bacterial population on the live rocks that the little amount of die off from the sand isn't a problem..

The fact that you are now measuring some nitrates may be that the bacterial population IS sufficient and the die off and ammonia generated by it was quickly converted to its lesser toxic form of nitrate so that shows that there was enough bacteria.. Now as long as you don't go crazy your tank will likely not have any cycle as it has sufficient bacteria already..
That bacterial level is still building though but you have enough to not see the typical ammonia/nitrite spikes one would associate with a cycling process...

 

[Lsufan]

Mcgyver pretty much covered everything but to answer your question about actual numbers is hard to say. Did u introduce any ammonia source or where u just relying on dieoff from the rocks & sand? The ammonia will go as high as the ammonia source will take it, so there is no exact number. Usually the higher the ammonia gets the longer the cycle takes. U can always add a source of ammonia to see what happens, but I don’t think it’s really needed unless u aren’t certain about the liverock.

I agree with mcgyver that u more then likely won’t have a cycle using all live rock. It’s hard to say for sure because Not all live rock is created equal. A lot of lfs buy dry rock & cure it themselves so they can sell it for $8 lb. So if the rock was dry when they received it & it has only been curing in their bin for a week or two it wouldn’t be fully cured live rock & u may see a cycle. If it has been sitting in the bin for a couple months & has plenty of bacteria then u may not see much of a cycle if any at all.

U definitely want to get that temp down before u start killing all the little critters that come in the liverock & cause a cycle by doing so. U want all those little critters to survive so u don’t have such a sterile tank like if starting with dry rock. That’s one of the reasons to pay more for cured liverock