Now....time to pick rock

[allendehl]

My next step in my first tank setup is to pick the type and amount of rock. I found a great thread about live rocks vs dry for a new tank and there seems to be no consensus.
From what I was able to pick up, dry rock is cheaper but does not come with many good critters live rocks could bring and also, as they are "virgin" they tend to grow unwanted algae hard to clean up.
Live rock in turn is expensive and could bring bad stuff along with the goodies. Though cycling is faster and seems to reduce the risk of algae invasion.
Many people say they would never start a tank with live and others say live is the way to go.
( did I get it right?? )

Now, I am in a shopping spree for my first tank ever (Red Sea Reefer 350 (75Gal) ) and need to make a decision on what to do. Tank is being shipped in 3 days, so I still have time to learn and carefully pick my choice.

Being budget conscious, I was thinking in getting 50Lbs of rick from reefcleaners.com (https://www.reefcleaners.org/aquarium-store/florida-reef-rock-50lbs-free-shipping) and probably 3 or four pounds of live rock to add some life to my tank from the beginning. Would this be a good idea?

Any tips on being proactive and prevent or minimize the algae invasion everyone talks about in the first few months of the tank with dry rocks?

Thanks lot!

 

[mcgyvr]

-You got it right..
-Sounds like a good plan (reefcleaners/live rock)
-keep nutrients low to avoid fueling algae..

Don't be afraid of the "ugly stages".. Let them happen..
Just don't run lights FULL blast and just keep up with those water changes to keep nutrients (nitrates/phosphates) low..
Get a decent clean up crew from reefleaners again too after the tank has cycled. I'd recommend getting a quick crew from them at about half your tank size unless algae is really taking over..
Get 2 mexican turbo snails from your local fish store or other supplier if hair algae gets more than say 1/8" tall or so..

 

[allendehl]

-You got it right..
-Sounds like a good plan (reefcleaners/live rock)
-keep nutrients low to avoid fueling algae..

Don't be afraid of the "ugly stages".. Let them happen..
Just don't run lights FULL blast and just keep up with those water changes to keep nutrients (nitrates/phosphates) low..
Get a decent clean up crew from reefleaners again too after the tank has cycled. I'd recommend getting a quick crew from them at about half your tank size unless algae is really taking over..
Get 2 mexican turbo snails from your local fish store or other supplier if hair algae gets more than say 1/8" tall or so..

Man, you to the rescue again!

I'm glad I am learning something, this hobby could be a bit overwhelming the more we read.
I have a protein skimmer on its way to start with the tank, would it help keeping nutrients low?
I had to laugh at the idea that I could buy a "cleaning crew" all designed and picked for my tank. My wife would love to be able to to the same with the house...and being able to afford it. So you mention "about half my tank size" what do you mean by that? In the order form they ask for the tank size...is that what you mean?..just enter half of it? They also have a section for Strength..would medium be a safe choice?

Thank you one more time!

 

[Clowning_Around]

3 days, take your time with your decisions, you'll most likely be living with those decisions for quite some time. But yea what you've posted sounds fine. I do suggest however, if you have LFS options, to check out the types of rock in person to see which type you like the best before pulling the trigger on the purchase from whichever source. You'll even notice sombre are lighter/ heavier than others amongst other characteristics. But important to note is the lighter ones take up more volume which singe consider the best bangfor the buck for surface area but if you want limited space taken yup by the rock itself, you may want a type with more nooks and crannies in its surface...

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[RobZilla04]

Dry rock is cheaper but it will leach out whatever nutrients are trapped. Phosphates come to mind as the most problematic. Once I upgraded from 55 to 90 I added some new dry limestone and had a green hair algae bloom. Now I have some curing in a separate bucket.

 

[ahuaia]

Yes he means half the size of the tank the problem with the cuc they recommend for your tank size is it's usually way to big witch leads to some of the cuc dying witch would release unwanted nutreaints that could course an algae bloom like. So start small with your cuc and add as needed. I would recommend some astraea snails as well there very good at cleaning algae and are hard for crabs to kill. Good luck with the new tank.

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[JTL]

I have Reef Saver rock and have no phosphates and no hair algae. I think it was only $2.5O lb at RC. It also is pretty easy to stack, but the larger pieces are heavy. I ordered 70 lbs for a 100g tank an it was too much.

 

[allendehl]

Thank you all!!

Rob, they claim to clean the rocks very well to reduce risk of leeching phosphates and they do have a reputation around here so I hope that won't be a problem.

ahuaia, that clears my question on the size of the crew! It makes total sense.

JTL, the rocks they have now are "Florida Reef Rocks" are the Reef Saver any different?

Also one more question, I've read that many LFS have ricks they sell as "live" but they not necessarily are that good . Is there any of the known vendors online that sells good value life rocks?

 

[mcgyvr]

Man, you to the rescue again!

I'm glad I am learning something, this hobby could be a bit overwhelming the more we read.
I have a protein skimmer on its way to start with the tank, would it help keeping nutrients low?
I had to laugh at the idea that I could buy a "cleaning crew" all designed and picked for my tank. My wife would love to be able to to the same with the house...and being able to afford it. So you mention "about half my tank size" what do you mean by that? In the order form they ask for the tank size...is that what you mean?..just enter half of it? They also have a section for Strength..would medium be a safe choice?

Thank you one more time!

A skimmer removes organic material BEFORE it can turn into nitrates,etc... so yes it "can" help but a skimmer alone isn't that efficient so its certainly not the only method..

As to "half the tank size" on the reef cleaner size they list their quick cleanup crew by tank size.. I'd suggest picking one thats about half as many gallons as your tank.. I think they go overkill on the clean up crew and many tend to starve from my experience. I would also recommend a snail only crew as hermits tend to just be bullied and eat snail,etc...
Not sure about this strength section to are referring to..
When tank is cycled.. Go here.. click add to cart.. enjoy..
https://www.reefcleaners.org/aquarium-store/quick-crew-37-column

As to your wife.. cleaning crews are easy to get too and are just a phone call and a checkbook away too... From my experience avoid the Polish based crews as they don't wear deodorant and end up leaving your house smelling worse than when they started.. :lmao:

edit.. Florida reef rocks are great.. Nice and light and porous..
Tampa Bay Saltwater has the BEST live rock.. Its pricey though due to overnight airport-airport shipping but if you want "live" in more than just bacteria thats where to go..

 

[allendehl]

As to your wife.. cleaning crews are easy to get too and are just a phone call and a checkbook away too... From my experience avoid the Polish based crews as they don't wear deodorant and end up leaving your house smelling worse than when they started.. :lmao:

At the rate I'm eating through the checkbook I foresee only one cleaning crew around my house for a while and it ain't from AngiesList

Thanks lot!

 

[rtparty]

The biggest issue with reef saver style rock (no matter the source) is it is NOT porous at all compared to good rock like Pukani or Fiji. Bulk Reef Supply has an amazing video on the different rocks that were analyzed by a third party to see how porous each rock type was.

The more porous it is, the more surface area bacteria has to colonize. I highly suggest Pukani or Fiji from BRS. I also like running Matrix to further increase my bacteria load for my tanks.

 

[allendehl]

Well, I guess I can setup the dry rock with an empty tank. Then I need to place the order for the live ones once I have it running and find a way to squeeze them and make them fit?

How you guys handle the mixed setup?

 

[JTL]

The biggest issue with reef saver style rock (no matter the source) is it is NOT porous at all compared to good rock like Pukani or Fiji. Bulk Reef Supply has an amazing video on the different rocks that were analyzed by a third party to see how porous each rock type was.

The more porous it is, the more surface area bacteria has to colonize. I highly suggest Pukani or Fiji from BRS. I also like running Matrix to further increase my bacteria load for my tanks.

It is not a sponge if that is what you mean but it is very porous. There are lots of holes small and large. I have had lots of rock over the years and this is as good as any of it, in fact I also have some other live rock mixed with the Reef Saver and I think some of the that is more dense. I would never be concerned about a lack of surface area with this stuff. The fact that is doesn't leach Phosphates for months and years is a huge plus imo.

 

[hubtech]

It is not a sponge if that is what you mean but it is very porous. There are lots of holes small and large. I have had lots of rock over the years and this is as good as any of it, in fact I also have some other live rock mixed with the Reef Saver and I think some of the that is more dense. I would never be concerned about a lack of surface area with this stuff. The fact that is doesn't leach Phosphates for months and years is a huge plus imo.

Not that i'm telling you anything you dont know but "live rock" can be any type of rock. saying "live rock is live rock is live rock" however isnt' correct. Example, a 5lb chunk of Pukani LR will have much more efficient filtration than say a 5 lb chunk of limestome that is also "live rock".

Also, holes are different than pores or an internal pore structure which is what pukani for example has so much of.

 

[rtparty]

It is not a sponge if that is what you mean but it is very porous. There are lots of holes small and large. I have had lots of rock over the years and this is as good as any of it, in fact I also have some other live rock mixed with the Reef Saver and I think some of the that is more dense. I would never be concerned about a lack of surface area with this stuff. The fact that is doesn't leach Phosphates for months and years is a huge plus imo.

I've used it as well, many times over the years.

The numbers from BRS don't lie. The reef saver style rock is very dense internally and does not have a network of tunnels. I fought hair algae just as much with reef saver as I have with any rock.

I personally find the whole fear of Pukani and other rocks leaching phosphate to be exaggerated. I'm over 6 months in on my tank and don't fight algae problems. I've had the "uglies" here and there but that's normal for any new setup.

The key is properly cleaning Pukani and other forms of "dead" rock. Taking your time and doing it right will save loads of time and headaches down the road. Some people don't have the time or patience and that's okay too. Many ways to skin a cat

 

[JTL]

We obviously have different opinions. If you like Pukani go for it, but to imply that Reef Saver rock is not going to support sufficient bacteria is false. You must know that very small holes, like those of a fine sponge, will eventually fill up with all sorts of things, calcium comes to mind, and will be useless as a bio filter. The bacteria needs a certain amount of O2 to survive. I would prefer larger holes so water can pass thru yet have interesting shapes, and look natural, and not throw off PO4.

 

[hubtech]

We obviously have different opinions. If you like Pukani go for it, but to imply that Reef Saver rock is not going to support sufficient bacteria is false. You must know that very small holes, like those of a fine sponge, will eventually fill up with all sorts of things, calcium comes to mind, and will be useless as a bio filter. The bacteria needs a certain amount of O2 to survive. I would prefer larger holes so water can pass thru yet have interesting shapes, and look natural, and not throw off PO4.

I dont think anyone said anything about the rock not being sufficient. It will be fine.

 

[JTL]

It was implied.

 

[hubtech]

or inferred. good luck. pick whatever rock tickles your fancy!

 

[mcgyvr]

oh.. that rock tickles...
Don't hear that often