Nu2SW Clown
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pbetito
New member
While doing the best I possibly can and using techniques that are recommended by a professional for shipping, I understand your fears towards livestock. In the future if you believe that the livestock such as fish might be a bit of a risk, I reccomend going with a more sure bet like zoo's or dry goods. That should be a cure for being wary
I am trying to improve and add excitement to the raffle that so far seems to be working. While the methodology may not be perfect yet, I think the majority of the live stock was a hit and the creatures as a whole fared relatively well. For the time being I am going to stick to the advice of the professionals on bagging and transport, however I will keep a close eye on the health of the livestock and will change the techniques used if the situation deems it necessary. Paul
). Keep up the great work!
Wee-Reef Master
New member
I didn't even participate and thought it was a good raffle. Job well done!
FoothillCorals
Premium Member
"While I understand that you must be bummed at losing the fish, I think it is noteworthy however that when you buy over 75 live items you are going to lose a few."
I have a real problem with that statement. If you are trans shipping fish and corals then yes. If you are transporting them across town and you lose them, Then someone was negligent. It is also negligent to suggest that losses are OK that is B.S. I have been thinking about joining MARS but when I read some of the posts in here it makes me wonder. Seeing posts like "I usually lose some of the corals I bring home" or "It is normal to lose some of your frags"
Just because you guys are having this stuff given to you dose not mean it is OK if it dies. Money aside the animals should come first. Personally I wish the stores would stick to donating drygoods and not livestock. At least not fish. It turns my stomach when I think about all the fish and wild caught corals that are lost every day in this hobby because people did not care for it properly or research the animal first.
Sorry I just had to get that out. I have been in thins hobby a LONG time. I would also be more than willing to help you guys come up with some better methods of keeping your livestock healthy during your meetings, send me a PM if you would like some help.
I have a real problem with that statement. If you are trans shipping fish and corals then yes. If you are transporting them across town and you lose them, Then someone was negligent. It is also negligent to suggest that losses are OK that is B.S. I have been thinking about joining MARS but when I read some of the posts in here it makes me wonder. Seeing posts like "I usually lose some of the corals I bring home" or "It is normal to lose some of your frags"
Just because you guys are having this stuff given to you dose not mean it is OK if it dies. Money aside the animals should come first. Personally I wish the stores would stick to donating drygoods and not livestock. At least not fish. It turns my stomach when I think about all the fish and wild caught corals that are lost every day in this hobby because people did not care for it properly or research the animal first.
Sorry I just had to get that out. I have been in thins hobby a LONG time. I would also be more than willing to help you guys come up with some better methods of keeping your livestock healthy during your meetings, send me a PM if you would like some help.
Nu2SW
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10591118#post10591118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pbetito
While doing the best I possibly can and using techniques that are recommended by a professional for shipping, I understand your fears towards livestock. In the future if you believe that the livestock such as fish might be a bit of a risk, I reccomend going with a more sure bet like zoo's or dry goods. That should be a cure for being wary
Paul
While I thank you for your effort and trying to make the raffle better and more fun.
But a I have to disagree.
You want to Keep a close eye.... well what do you call loosing 2 clowns, 1 shrimp, and now that I count a total of 6 slimers.
when I got home the water in the bags were a hazard to the fish and corals. The water in my bag for the fish was nasty and turning brown full of waste. If it is a priority, then I would suspect the fish at the next meeting to be bagged in larger bags and the corals floating on styrofoam upside down.
Bruce suggested largers bags is he not a professional?
I would rather have the stores give more Gift certificates for the fish than have them die the night before, at the meeting or as soon as I get them home.
Heat packs costs dollars, styrofoam boxes the stores can give. They just throw theres away.
Im sorry but that is a poor excuse and find it very upsetting to see said that "It's ok if we loose a few, Alot more survived." wrong mentality in thinking.
No loss of life is ok....
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KMP
Wag More; Bark Less
you guys are on a roll.
i think everyone's made their point and everyone's input will be taken into consideration. next subject. then there's the "i was swindled" thread. when is enough, enough. next subject. has it occured to anyone that there is a bbq this weekend and you will all have to face one another. perhaps instead of tables a boxing ring would be more appropriate.
two meetings and i've yet to find someone to take my dues. at this point, i have to ask myself - why join. the experience and information sharing that i have always valued is dwindling in light of those overwhelmed with negativity.
i think everyone's made their point and everyone's input will be taken into consideration. next subject. then there's the "i was swindled" thread. when is enough, enough. next subject. has it occured to anyone that there is a bbq this weekend and you will all have to face one another. perhaps instead of tables a boxing ring would be more appropriate.
two meetings and i've yet to find someone to take my dues. at this point, i have to ask myself - why join. the experience and information sharing that i have always valued is dwindling in light of those overwhelmed with negativity.
I thought the raffle was a hoot, it certainly brought in an interesting crowd. I don't think a dry goods raffle would be quite the cherry on top to the evening. Thanks for taking the time to put it all together. I got a candy cane coral that is doing quite well. Also, thanks Steve for the green star. It attached to a small rock in my tank no problem and looks great.
shiveley
Active member
Man Nu2SW, you sure seem a bit bitter lately. It's a raffle man, and the items are, for the most part, donated. Just be happy that something like this even takes place. And honestly, no one is making you buy raffle tickets. These raffles are meant to promote the meetings, and to generate a little fun and excitement. Quit trying to disparage a very positive and entertaining aspect of these events.
I, for one, definitely prefer live stock to dry goods. I can get all the dry goods I want at my LFS, but the unknown aspect of what will show up at a meeting is half the fun for me. You never know what gem will show up. I just appreciate the fact the the club, as well as its supporting vendors, takes the time, initiative, and expense to put these things together. So, thanks MARS!
Just appreciate that the opportunity exists at all. It's a raffle, after all, and by its nature offers no guarantees. It's supposed to be FUN.
I, for one, definitely prefer live stock to dry goods. I can get all the dry goods I want at my LFS, but the unknown aspect of what will show up at a meeting is half the fun for me. You never know what gem will show up. I just appreciate the fact the the club, as well as its supporting vendors, takes the time, initiative, and expense to put these things together. So, thanks MARS!
Just appreciate that the opportunity exists at all. It's a raffle, after all, and by its nature offers no guarantees. It's supposed to be FUN.
Paul - once agin, thanks for all the hard work you put into being a BOD member. Although a few vocals people may make it seem like there are a lot of people criticizing, I can assure you that there is a silent majority that appreciate all your hard work and dedication to improving the club.
Minh
Minh
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Nu2SW
New member
shiveley,
I never once said that I didnt think the raffle is fun. I think it is. I was having a blast while I was there.
What you seem to be failing to understand that some of us are concerned about is the fact of the item's being handled the way they are.
Not that all things are being handled bad. But a Fish in a small 4 inch bag width wise, with a few ounces of water for TWO days is wrong and they should be in bigger bags.
If you think Im bitter because of that. Then that is your Opinion and you are entitled to it.
But I am not the only one who thinks this way.
Let me put you in a box just a little bigger then you, with only a little quantity of air and see how you feel after words.
Ill guarantee that you wont be happy. Thats what the fish go through.
Ive seen how those fish are shipped. THEY ARE shipped in BIG bags. Not those small bags. Be it that the store's dont want to spend the money for the big bags, just being lazy or not thinking straight.
It doesnt take much to just say " He this time can we use all big bags and lets see how it turns out."
And if all big bags (for fish) are used and there is no loss. I say stick to it, because it looks like success.
Im sorry I care about the fish, they dont need to die. It being "just a raffle" has nothing to do with it.
Mentality/thinking like that is what gets humans into trouble.
It's just an animal, it doesnt make a difference.
Im not trying to "disparage " anything. For you thinking that ,makes you fall more into that definition. For trying to make me look like a bad person trying to make sure the items are taken care off. Utterly rude!
:-(
I never once said that I didnt think the raffle is fun. I think it is. I was having a blast while I was there.
What you seem to be failing to understand that some of us are concerned about is the fact of the item's being handled the way they are.
Not that all things are being handled bad. But a Fish in a small 4 inch bag width wise, with a few ounces of water for TWO days is wrong and they should be in bigger bags.
If you think Im bitter because of that. Then that is your Opinion and you are entitled to it.
But I am not the only one who thinks this way.
Let me put you in a box just a little bigger then you, with only a little quantity of air and see how you feel after words.
Ill guarantee that you wont be happy. Thats what the fish go through.
Ive seen how those fish are shipped. THEY ARE shipped in BIG bags. Not those small bags. Be it that the store's dont want to spend the money for the big bags, just being lazy or not thinking straight.
It doesnt take much to just say " He this time can we use all big bags and lets see how it turns out."
And if all big bags (for fish) are used and there is no loss. I say stick to it, because it looks like success.
Im sorry I care about the fish, they dont need to die. It being "just a raffle" has nothing to do with it.
Mentality/thinking like that is what gets humans into trouble.
It's just an animal, it doesnt make a difference.
Im not trying to "disparage " anything. For you thinking that ,makes you fall more into that definition. For trying to make me look like a bad person trying to make sure the items are taken care off. Utterly rude!
:-(
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Nu2SW
New member
while I may, what you call criticize and others may also. I can assure you that we also appreciate the hard work.
It's called taking pre-cautions and just making sure the live stock is being handled and bagged correctly. Giving it the best chance for survival.
What about all the times, I have heard many of you talk about a LFS in sacramento that also sells puppies and cats and other animals. How you talked about how they are not treated right. How there cages are dirty with feces.
So should someone not try to correct that or turn a blind eye to it??????
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shiveley
Active member
okay, i'm the one being rude. sure, well, I'll just let the recent tone of posts speak for themselves.
though I feel that I must say that I never said or implied that I didn't care about the welfare of the animals being made available at the raffles.
there's a big difference between making a helpful suggestion and outright complaining...
though I feel that I must say that I never said or implied that I didn't care about the welfare of the animals being made available at the raffles.
there's a big difference between making a helpful suggestion and outright complaining...
MrMikeB
New member
I think the matter at hand is pretty clear and I firmly believe Paul has acknowledged the fact that there is still work in progress regarding short term care for livestock. It is Utopian, and rather naive IMO, to think you will get zero loss, so expectations to the contrary is simply without merit. These specimens were not just picked up locally a couple hours before the meeting and driven across town, Paul went to the Bay Area for many of these. Furthermore many specimens were new arrivals at the LFS when they were acquired, so previous health issues are a bit tough to gauge as we all can relate to.
Bottom line, Paul I think you are doing a wonderful job. I agree there is room for improvement in anything we do (hell why do you think we have meetings?), and I am sure you are working out the bugs. I do not feel it fair you should be subject to ludicrous accusations that you are being negligent and somehow this negligence is representative of the entire club.
Bottom line, Paul I think you are doing a wonderful job. I agree there is room for improvement in anything we do (hell why do you think we have meetings?), and I am sure you are working out the bugs. I do not feel it fair you should be subject to ludicrous accusations that you are being negligent and somehow this negligence is representative of the entire club.
pbetito
New member
Thank you all for your support and kind words. Foothill corals, I know you care about the creatures but to expect zero loss is insane. These items were not ALL donated by the way, most of them were bought with a MARS budget. I also spent close to 75 dollars of my OWN money so to assume that I don't care if there is a loss because it is free is insane. The person I have helping me is very well qualified. Thanks for your offer to help but at this point I am going to stick with the professionals.
There is not a store that does not suffer losses when buying and moving that many animals. Being that I have worked for a huge wholesaler in the past I have seen it first hand. There were 75 different animals and we lost 4. I wish it was less but it certainly is not the end of the world. As far as the SPS frags Doug and I were a bit worried about their health but we only had a small window of time so we took our best shot that they would be ok. Since you seem worried about the frags of the green slimer I can put you at ease: The colony they came from is live and well!!!! They were aqua cultured and felt no pain Thanks again for the awesome donations DOUG!!!!
As I have said before, I am doing what is best for the animals and will change tactics if there is a problem. IMO things are going well so far but we will continue to monitor it closely. If you have a need to discuss anything call me at home at 916 972-1921! I look forward to the next raffle and seeing all of you at Swap sale. Until then may the fishes swim strong and healthy and may their owners sleep peacefully :lol:
There is not a store that does not suffer losses when buying and moving that many animals. Being that I have worked for a huge wholesaler in the past I have seen it first hand. There were 75 different animals and we lost 4. I wish it was less but it certainly is not the end of the world. As far as the SPS frags Doug and I were a bit worried about their health but we only had a small window of time so we took our best shot that they would be ok. Since you seem worried about the frags of the green slimer I can put you at ease: The colony they came from is live and well!!!! They were aqua cultured and felt no pain
Thanks again for the awesome donations DOUG!!!!As I have said before, I am doing what is best for the animals and will change tactics if there is a problem. IMO things are going well so far but we will continue to monitor it closely. If you have a need to discuss anything call me at home at 916 972-1921! I look forward to the next raffle and seeing all of you at Swap sale. Until then may the fishes swim strong and healthy and may their owners sleep peacefully :lol:
