Nudi Infestation

cadmanof50s

New member
Over the past few months I have lost several colonies of Zoas.

Thinking at first it was something in my water quality ....I have been focusing on keeping all parameters dead steady. Still kept loosing colonies. They would close up slowly and shrivel away to nothing.

The culprit is an infestation of Zoa-eating nudibranchs. I found one of these elusive slugs months ago and used flatworm-x as I was told that it would kill them off. But the Zoas kept going downhill steadily.


They have now affected every one of my colonies. I have been removing the individuals with a turkey baster ..but every night there are more. I'm guessing that for every one I remove there at least 4 more in hiding.

Is there something that eats these little pests? Is there a more effective treatment available?

Thanks in advance.

Vic
 
In hindsight you can now see how important it is to terminate pests like this before they get into the main display where they are very hard,maybe impossible, to totally get rid of.
For zoa nudies the answer is to dip them.You can use RO water at the same temperature as the tankwater or a disinfectant such as coral rx.This will only kill the adult/baby nudies.The eggs laid around the zoas wont be affected because they are enclosed in a protective jelly.You'll have to do repeat dips every 3-4 days to kill any hatches.
Even fish like wrasse spit the nudies out because they are very toxic.They resemble the zoas they feed on and ingest the poisons from the zoas as a survival plan.
 
i have a small case of the same problem. after i removed about ten of them my main colony is fine. the colony of zoas they came on though is still recovering and i found one on there yesterday. i also heard that flatworm exit from API will work and you can dose it directly to the tank. im trying to save money and doing manual removal. the only thing is they came on a colony of darth maul zoas and i really dont want to lose them cause they cost a lot.
 
I was able to dip mine (coral rx) and I found one on one of my colonies. I was able to pull him off and the only eggs I found were on two polyps that was able to cut off and flush down the sink.
 
example

example

In the first picture you will see the eggs under the front two polyps and in the second you will see the nudi.
 

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this may help some people , ive gotten dozens of reefers to use method and it works.

remember to dip all your corals , lfs cant be responsible for pests its up to the consumer.



adult nudis themselves are slow to eat, easy to find and cant grow to adult stages faster then we can pick them out or dip them.

now the eggs.....are virtually indestructable.....too hidden between and around polyp stalks for predators to find, and then too small once they start to feed for us to find as well.


basically remove all you can, youll find them at night and they are easy to spot.


dip all your colonies or frags , then manually inspect for any stunned nudis that may be holding on and pick off any eggs you see.


this needs to be done weekly for a few weeks or its a lost battle, you also should put your zoas either in qt or a acclimation basket while your doing the treatments, putting them back in your display just gives the adults new places to hide during the day.


add fish that scare and eat the nudis.....wrasses are your friend if your keeping zoas and palys.


zoanthid nudis only eat zoanthids, but remember most of what we call palys are actually zoas.



heres your routine in short:



day1/week1:


remove all zoas from your tank
remove all visible adults and dip the zoas
reinspect after dipping ...important to remove eggs(lots of different dips i use coral rx)
place in a qt tank or basket off your sand and rocks.


add a wrasse or a couple depending on your tank size.....yellow corris and melanarus is what i use and are preferred.


every couple of days look at them at night or early morning and look for any babies that you may be able to see.



day 1 /week 2

look for adults and remove
dip your zoas....remove any left over adults and eggs


every coule of days look at them at night or early morning and look for any babies that you may be able to see.


day 1 week three:


pest control should be close to be had now so time to do the final dip and thorough inspection.


remove all your zoas and dip them in a flatworm exit solution and followed by a lengthly dip in coral rx .

use a magnifying glass to inspect the polyp stalks for eggs under a bright light(halides work great)





theres alot of different approaches you can take but this routine works well , some people say freshwater and h2o2 work but i use both all the time and freshwater baths are a bit harsh and h2o2 does not compare to coral rx IMO i see nudis sliding around in h2o2 for long periods of time while the coral rx when blasted at them stuns them within minutes. its important to note coral rx stunns the nudis....it may kill some but not 100% all of them , you need to use a turkey baster and blow in between the polyps...be rough they hold on tight



when your looking for them at night time remember that zoa nudis can change color to match the polyps they are eating , during the day this makes it hard but at night you can lightly touch each polyp with tweasers and then the bright nudis are visible...use a turkey baster to suck them up also using a actinic light helps spot the bright nudis


on that last note , always dip your corals for pests , but with zoanthids they should have a qt period unless your absolutely sure no nudis or other pests are there , the polyps and the rocks make for great hiding places and since zoas dont eat live prey of size they can hide there safely.


good luck ,if you stick to it they arnt hard to get rid of.

hope this helps.


cheers

denny
 
Thanks to all who responded. Special thanks to Denny for the detailed recommendations. I will be sure to follow your suggestions.

Vic
 
I just found some of these buggers on one of my colonies. I did a quick dip and use a my "thing" to suck them up if I see them. Look for closed polyps and there are bound to be nudis around. I had happy colonies till these buggers showed up. I did an RO dip since I didn't have coral RX. I am going to try flatworm exit next.
 
Thanks to all who responded. Special thanks to Denny for the detailed recommendations. I will be sure to follow your suggestions.

Vic

your welcome , they are easily beat with some persistence:)

follow the directions and i guarantee you will be rid of them, we have done alot of research and trial and error with zoa nudes and found this to work best , its alot of work though so not the easiest to do.

keep in mind all new zoos should be qt'd or at least visually inspected and dipped for pests, ideally a qt is best for a few weeks:)

good luck and let us know how you made out:)

cheers

denny
 
I just found some of these buggers on one of my colonies. I did a quick dip and use a my "thing" to suck them up if I see them. Look for closed polyps and there are bound to be nudis around. I had happy colonies till these buggers showed up. I did an RO dip since I didn't have coral RX. I am going to try flatworm exit next.

remember the dips do practically nothing to eggs(all dips) so at the least inspect for egg sacks and remove when found, its half the battle right there:)

fish cant be relied on to take out eggs(most wont)so manual removal is best.

cheers and good luck

denny
 
you poor soul.
I had a bout with these beast about 9 months ago,I agree with what everyone here has said as far as treatment goes,its a matter of determination and keeping up with the nightly searches and removing them as you find them and keeping an eye out for the eggs.I believe once you remove all the adults the chain is broken,then its just a matter of combing your tank every night and removing the babies.you must burn thier image into your mind so you can pick them out quickly by the shape of them.and now you will become a firm believer of dipping corals,it took me about 2 months to completely get rid of my infestation.and then another month atleast before I could get a good night sleep.
good luck my friend.
mike
 
Denny's advise is spot on.

A comment on the FWE treatment - IME, you need much higher dose than you'd use for planaria. More like 4 drops per pint. Are any of you having success at lower dosages of FWE?

Regarding FW dips - if you wait til the zoas are all closed up, it is much less traumatic and very effective against nudis, but not eggs. You can kill polyps if you dip them while still open. Especially the pricey ones... FW and peroxide together is too much.

Last, a theory I haven't tried but want to (whenever the inevitable infestation comes about) When treating with Berghia for Aiptasia, you cannot have peppermint shrimp in the tank because they will eat Berghia nudis. While they are different species of nudis, I've always wondered if p'mints could be a successful zoa nudi predator - monti nudis as well.

If you are a serious collector, quarantine is a must, but having a predator in the tank is great backup for control.
 
As far as dips go, I like Bayer. It's cheap and easy to get. Zoas seem to be able to handle a very strong dose without issue and it kills pests quickly.
 
this may help some people , ive gotten dozens of reefers to use method and it works.

remember to dip all your corals , lfs cant be responsible for pests its up to the consumer...cheers denny

I'm curious, does the dipping and quarantining procedure for new corals differ from trying to eliminate an infestation of a display tank? I mean, little nudis and eggs might be missed in a visual inspection, and eggs will survive a dip, should this be a 3 week process as well?
 
Denny's advice is dead on. I had a two month fight with those little monsters when I first entered the hobby a couple of years ago. They are extremely hard to get out of a display tank. The adults do the damage, but the eggs are where you will lose the battle. Inspect very carefully for eggs...they normally do not blow off with a turkey baster. You may need to almost scrap them off. Make sure you do this outside of the tank.

I also had very good luck with a Yellow Coris Wrasse. Mine was a beast and really help me turn the tide in my advantage. I've heard the Green Coris Wrasse works as well.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. I know it was a learning experience for me. dip, quarantine (if possible), and inspect very very very closely. I use a magnifying glass after I dip.

Happy Reefing
 
I'm curious, does the dipping and quarantining procedure for new corals differ from trying to eliminate an infestation of a display tank? I mean, little nudis and eggs might be missed in a visual inspection, and eggs will survive a dip, should this be a 3 week process as well?

yes you should do the whole treatment again for new arrivals , a quick qt can be pretty simple to set up and not cost to much.

personally i would leave a qt running permanently but i know not every one can do that so in the case where a qt cant be set up i would at the least dip and inspect very well for eggs and adults. the larger the colonie the better chance of it hiding pests , same for fresh wild corals.

remember , if your a hard core collector i would have a wrasse/guard dog on duty just in case.


my strongest recommendation is to qt all new corals zoa or not , doing this will save you alot of head ache.

with over 10yrs collecting zoas and over 150 diff types and thousands upon thousands of polyps......nothing goes in my tank without a qt process......NOTHING


good luck everyone with your battles ,if theres any questions please feel free to pm me or post them i will be happy to help if i can:)

cheers

denny
 
Denny's advise is spot on.

A comment on the FWE treatment - IME, you need much higher dose than you'd use for planaria. More like 4 drops per pint. Are any of you having success at lower dosages of FWE?

yes you do need to use more then you would for flatworms, i overdose by quite a bit , i find the FWE is very effective but dip lengths are not as long as a coral disinfectant.

i had good success with 100% H202 and adults but the healing process took to long and i found certain zoanthids especially the small polyp zoos would take a long time to open again.

diluted h202 wasnt of much use , killed a few but some were untouched at all.

i didnt want to recommend a dosage for the FWE as i find i change it from time to time depending on the type of zoanthid in question, but on average its a double dose.
 
regarding the peppermint shrimp , i have never witnessed a pps eating a nudi but have heard they will eat berghia's.

as far as zoanthid nudis im not sure if the toxins play a role with them or not , i may have to trap some in a basket with some adults and see how it goes.

that said i wouldnt be surprised if they did eat them , i would imagine they would only do it as a last resort though , so much more tasty things in a reef then nudis.

i know what my next project is hehehe:P
 
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