# of bartlett's to form a harem

[eaglesrx]

I've been trying to research this question for a while. There seems to be different opinions out there on the minimum number of bartlett's to form a harem. Obviously, this depends on size of the tank and number of other fish. I've looked in 2 of Scott Michael's books for this appropriate number and have been unable to track it down.

So, my questions are:
1. What is the minimum number of bartlett's anthias you need to form a harem in a 180g tank, ideally, minimizing the risk of aggression and conversion to multiple males?

2. Is it better to have an odd number of anthias or an even number? Does this make a difference?

I've seen numbers of as little as 3 anthias (starting out with 3 females). However, I'm not sure if I should go with a number of 1 anthia per 50 gallons (therefore, 3.6 bartlett's in a 180g ->I'd probably just do 3) Or maybe more of a lyretail number of 9 anthias per 180g.

Thanks for the help,

 

[sunfish11]

I would go with a minimum of 4. It is just enough to hopefully take the full pressure off of any one fish. I have 4 lyretails and they have done great over a year now together.

 

[eaglesrx]

thanks sunfish; Have your lyretails turned to males or do you only have 1 male so far?

I was thinking about lyretails also, however, I've heard that they're a little trickier to get to eat flake food. What do you feed yours and how often?

thanks,

 

[sunfish11]

I bought one male and three females. Less conflict that way. When you start with all females they will fight to find out who is most dominant and the winner will go male. Some of them might get hurt or die in confined spaces while they go through the fighting stage. Two of my females had begun a dorsal spike when I got them but the presence of the male checked that and they have remained the same.

I feed them twice a day. They like any meaty food except squid and clam. They also like cyclopeeze and rotifers. Two of mine eat flakes and two never got the taste for them. One even eats nori when the tangs eat! I soak their food in Vita-Chem or Selcon before feeding, even the flakes. They love it when my shrimp have babies in the tank or when the mysids swarm. They will eat very very small to quite large chunks of meat. Their mouths open pretty large for a small fish. I feed them ocean plankton, brine, mysis, formula I, formula II, and a homemade reef blend called Rods Food.

Lisa

 

[eaglesrx]

hey thanks lisa. Your success is really putting me on the fence on the lyretail/bartlett's issue. I'm planning on getting a midas as I've heard they naturally swim with the lyretails (also heard though that they'll swim with any anthia).

One other question if you don't mind me asking. Do you have an open or closed canopy? Of course, I'm worried about the risk of jumpers and would to hate to have a fish jump on me if it's doing well in the tank.

Any thoughts on which anthia has a higher risk of jumping?

thanks,
Phu

 

[eaglesrx]

anyone else have some info??

 

[2crazyreefers]

I tried 4 in my 180 along with my six line, ended up with 1 due to fighting and jumping. Well I put 5 more in and after 6 weeks 1 was getting beat on then decided to jump 2 days ago. Now another is getting beat on and hides except feeding time. I am sure he will be gone next. I think there is a pecking order which I hope STOPS quick. I run a open top and all eat flake food just like the others I had. If I keep loosing them thats it for these guy's. Dont want to put anymore through this and loose more money either. Also I put in a pair of Dispar a couple weeks ago which got beat to death within days. Good luck

 

[eaglesrx]

hey thanks 2crazy. What type of anthias did you have, lyretails or bartlett's??

 

[eaglesrx]

bump

 

[SDguy]

I have both bartletts and lyretails. They are both very hardy. I think as long as you pick healthy ones to begin with (or buy from a good online source) you should be fine.

 

[eaglesrx]

Hey SDguy, thanks for the info. I remember seeing your posts on previous searches here. Love the colors on your bartlett's!! I think from some of your posts on anthias, the bartlett's are a little easier to get eating flakes. However, I can't remember how many you had in your tank and for how long. Any info. would be great!! thanks!

 

[SDguy]

I added three of each soon after setting up the tank. I recently added a very small female lyretail and bartlett as well, so I have four of each now. The lyretails are pretty much status quo...male occasionally chases females, larger females occasionally charge smaller ones, but that's it. The bartlett are weird. Two males, neither adopting a terminal male look. The largest harasses the female A LOT and way more than the other male. I think the lyretails intimidate the bartlett, keeping them from gaining full terminal male appearance.....

Since I added the small fourth bartlett, the large male has been looking better, flaring fins and all....waiting to see how this all plays out. It's rather interesting.

Overall lesson though, I would not mix the two species if I had to do it over again. Your tank is bigger though. I agree that bartlett take flake/dry food more readily, IME. However, I personally don't think dry food is a good staple for marine fish like anthias...totally JMO though...no data

 

[sunfish11]

Do you have an open or closed canopy?

I have an open top.

 

[SDguy]

I too have an open top....not jumpy like wrasses.

 

[jdircksen]

I added 3 bartlett's to my 75g 6 days ago. I think I have 2 males and 1 small female. The males hang out in the front of the tank, the female stays in the rocks until feeding time. After feeding time, she swims with the males.

One of mine jumped within 15 minutes of being put in the tank. I added egg-crate and so far don't mind the look of the egg-crate.

Their diet depends a lot on what they at at the LFS and how long they were there. Mine are eating frozen cyclop-eeze, frozen reef plankton, and small sized flakes. They did not like the frozen brine or larger sized flakes. Unlike my other fish, the anthias won't take a big piece of food and take small bites.

I want to add 2 more females, but my tank is young and I want to be sure these guys are ick free.

 

[jdircksen]

 

[eaglesrx]

thanks jdircksen and thanks to everyone so far. I think I'll go with 4 bartlett's (1 male, 3 females) to minimize the aggression. I'll plan on feeding with flakes in the morning using the autofeeder and then frozen foods in the evening. Hopefully, my planned DSB and skimmer will control the bioload!! I guess no watanabe angels for me if I want to keep the bioload down (plan on adding my mated pair of ocellaris, then orchid dotty, purple tang, and then a midas blenny).

Has anyone ever heard of keeping an odd number of anthias? I can't remember where I read that piece of info. Didn't see it in Scott Michael's books.

Thanks,
phu

 

[LBForce57]

For those that have attempted to keep a harem of anthias, what is your feeding schedule, and how aggressive do the fish seem towards each other? In the recent Coral magazine there was an article about cromis aggression in large groups and the relationship of aggression to the frequency of feedings. From what I understood, it seems that smaller, more frequent meals through out the day greatly reduced fighting.

I’m just wondering if anyone has tried to do frequent small meals throughout the day with a food timer or something. Or if this would even work with anthias.

Just a thought

Chris

 

[sunfish11]

Eaglesrx, make sure they will actually eat the flake before you start dumping them in the tank when you aren't there. Sometimes it looks like they eat them but they spit them back out.

 

[eaglesrx]

thanks for the info. sunfish. I actually haven't set up the 180g yet. I'm very early in the planning stages. However, I'll definitely see if they'll eat the flakes first. My orchid dotty would also eat flakes, and then spit them right back out for the first month. Eventually, he started eating them. However, an orchid's much easier than a bartlett!!!