On reefkeeping methods and trends in the hobby

[Turtlesteve]

Over time I find myself becoming more distanced from the "consensus" approach on maintaining reef systems. While I do not actively post much anymore, I like to lurk and read about new advances and where the hobby is going. However, my own experience is leading me to simplify, and to be more skeptical of "trends" in the hobby. I'm posting to see if anyone else out there has similar experience (or not) and to hopefully start a productive discussion.

As some background I have newly returned to saltwater after a long break (I've got about 10 years experience in the hobby, and don't pretend to be an expert on anything). I've resurrected my old 90 gallon, which will be mainly SPS focused with a few LPS and zoanthids. After some consideration of past experience, I decided to simplify my setup greatly. The new system is skimmerless and the equipment list consists of two pumps, LED lighting, heaters, and auto-topoff. I decided to keep a small sump (while not doing much now it gives me flexibility). I started the system with dry rock and a thin sand bed (about 1/2").

So far, this system is much more stable than when I had it loaded up with accessories, and is less maintenance. The one caveat is that I'm only at the 6 month mark - but so far, so good. Current livestock is about a dozen corals, 6 fish, a maxima clam, and a half dozen snails. The system never really had any bad algae blooms (besides coralline) even when cycling.

To summarize my own experience, here's a breakdown of all the different equipment and techniques I have tried in the past, and my opinions:

Basic requirements: Lighting, powerheads/wave-makers, heaters, live rock
Beneficial: Auto-topoff (with kalkwasser)
Neutral: Protein skimmer, Ca-reactor, overflow/sump/return
Slightly bad: Refugium
Very bad: Any aerobic bio-media (bio-balls, filter socks, foam intake filters on pumps), deep sand bed

My hypothesis at this time is that having a single method of nutrient export (live rock) is good. In the past I had several methods (live rock, skimmer, deep sand bed, refugium, various filters). That system was never stable over any long period of time - I suspect because the biological systems compete with each other, and the system failed to reach steady state. As a hypothetical example, the nitrification/denitrification capacity of the live rock may suffer if it competes with algae growth and aerobic nitrification on other media. A disruption in one of these systems (such as cleaning / bleaching filter pads or harvesting macro algae) changes the competitive balance - and the other systems do not necessarily compensate quickly having been starved by the prior competition.

I intend to keep this experiment running, but I honestly don't know if the "simple" system will be sustainable indefinitely. I'm not inherently opposed to equipment or complexity in principle, I'm just trying to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

Any thoughts?

 

[WVfishguy]

I, too just got back into reefing after a ten-year absence.

I'm interested in how successful you'll be keeping SPS without skimming. Please keep us posted.

I never thought of a skimmer as biological filtration, but mechanical. I know a lot of people don't use skimmers, but it creeps me out knowing all that ungodly stuff in the skimmer cup will stay in the aquarium without a skimmer.

Well, I guess if it's not removed by skimming, it may be removed some other way. But it still makes me nervous. And skimming so easy. Cleaning the cup is the grossest thing there is. I don't think it's a good idea to depend too much on the skimmer for O2 infusion.

(I had a customer, a bar, with a very dead cat under a walkway entrance. The guy working there couldn't take the smell, but it didn't bother me too much, so I got rid or it for him. In retrospect, I think was able to handle it because of cleaning so many skimmers. :eek1

..."biological systems compete with each other, and the system failed to reach steady state." This may be true. Or not. Arguments can be made either way.

I like overflows and sumps/refugiums because they provide extra filtration and, above all, the falling water increases O2, which keeps pH from lowering.

But I had several FOWLERS with no sumps at all, just HOB AquaClear 110s, live rock and power heads for movement. (Well, I guess the HOB is a kind of sump.)

I currently keep an AquaClear on my 90 gallon reef display with carbon in it.

I agree with no bio-balls, foam, and deep sand, but I love filter socks because they are great mechanical filters. On my FOWLERS, I cleaned the sponges in the HOB filters every week - I didn't worry so much about nitrates with a FOWLER.

I've seen simple tanks without skimmers which were stable for long periods of time.

 

[Turtlesteve]

I didn't mean to suggest that skimmers contribute to biological filtration - my competition hypothesis really applies to the various biological substrates working against each other and macroalgae growth. Skimming pulls organics before they decompose, so it's not really in the same category (but it does reduce the overall load going to the bio filtration). So far, the live rock seems to handle the load, but I'm not convinced it will work forever. My wife is very sensitive to odors and not having a skimmer avoids some conflict in this regard as well.

I forgot to add in my original post, that I did run GFO for a little while when the tank started up (in case I had any PO4 leaching from the dry rock), and I'm temporarily running a UV sterilizer (to manage ich, since I didn't QT fish). I'm debating keeping the UV sterilizer for improved water clarity.

Steve

 

[Fourstars]

Keep it simple, I agree. I now just run a bare bottom tank with a sump full of Chaetomorpha and occasionally carbon. I would never start a new tank this way.

 

[Subsea]

Just call me “old school” because I have not left the hobby in 47 years. I have been skimmerless for 35 years and never looked back. For me, nutrient recycling works best. If I need nutrient export, I frag & sell coral.

While none of of us can prove it, I disagree with the idea that differrent biological filters interfere with each other. Considering “Dynamic Equilibrium”, each method of biofiltration will find its own level of processing nutrients. Keeping it simple does not necessarily mean using one form of biofiltration over another.

For biofiltration, I subscribe to a three legged platform which includes algae, bacteria & sponges.

 

[HumbleFish]

Be wary of new techniques, products and equipment in this hobby. Let others be the guinea pigs before you invest in it. Many times it turns out to be more hype than substance.

I'm also a big believer in keeping things simple. At least to start. It's better for a noob to learn how to do everything manually before investing in high-tech gadgets. So when it breaks, you know how to go back to doing it manually.

 

[Bpb]

Keep in mind what stinks about skimmate so bad isn't what you're pulling out specifically, it's the fact that it becomes completely anoxic and the live bacteria and copepods in it begin to rot. I can't even open my skimmer lid if the cup is full without everyone having to evacuate the living room for an hour because the smell is so bad. If I open the lid on a freshly cleaned cup there's no smell at all.


Onto the topic. There are obviously trendy products that have come about that I will call completely useless and add gadgets for gadgets sake. Algae reactors and roller mat filters.

I've gotta disagree on calcium and alkalinity maintenance being neutral. If you keep a lot of sps corals it's absolutely necessary.


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[EMeyer]

I very much like the OP attitude and strategic goals. I too think there are a lot of unnecessary gadgets sold in this hobby.

I find it interesting how different our experiences have been, though. On all 3 of my tanks, if something goes wrong with the skimmer, the tank suffers quickly. I would never run a saltwater tank without a skimmer. I can see benefits within 24 hours after fixing a broken skimmer, and problems within 24 hours if a skimmer goes down.

I have exactly the same opinion about algal refugia and sumps: essential, and literally wouldnt attempt a SW tank without one.

For myself and my tanks, I'd put UV sterilizers, GFO, and any kind of mechanical filtration (filter socks) in the "negative to neutral" category.

 

[IowaReefer]

I have been practicing the KISS method for nearly my entire tenure in the hobby (15 years). I run a sumpless 60 cube with a HOB fuge containing 2 nylon socks of cermedia balls and a powerful HOB skimmer. I use the fuge as a detritus trap and vacuum it out every month or so.

While most would consider my tank overstocked (2 clowns, 3 wrasses, dwarf angel, fire fish, marine betta), my tank is generally free of pest algae/ cyano and I am able to keep everything from acros to leathers happy and growing. The key, I have found, is just to go slow with everything. Nothing good happens quickly in this hobby.

 

[Turtlesteve]

I find it interesting how different our experiences have been, though. On all 3 of my tanks, if something goes wrong with the skimmer, the tank suffers quickly. I would never run a saltwater tank without a skimmer. I can see benefits within 24 hours after fixing a broken skimmer, and problems within 24 hours if a skimmer goes down. :spin3:

I had similar experiences to this on the old system - it's only my perspective that has changed. If we rely on a skimmer for nutrient export, of course the system suffers when it goes down. But if I omit the skimmer to start with, the nutrients are exported another way, and there's one less point of failure. My understanding is that the live rock does support denitrification and is actually exporting nutrients, not just recycling them.

This time around I want to have a clear understanding of how the system will operate that was lacking in the past. My strategy is based on the live rock because I perceive it as the least complex way to handle nutrients. By avoiding other strategies, if I run into a nutrient problem, I can conclude that the live rock isn't keeping up (and will make changes accordingly). On the old system, I never knew where to place blame when something went out of whack.

I'll also add that right now I'm relying on kalkwasser for Ca/Alk control. I know this will hit a wall eventually, but I plan to cross that bridge when I get there. I'm considering trying calcium acetate (kalk+vinegar) before going back to a Ca reactor.

Steve

 

[cody6766]

I've always kept pretty successful mixed reefs with pretty simple equipment lists. I've moved my tanks quite a few times since I started in college then moved on to the Air Force right after. Because of that, I have had several setups with 2-4 year lifespans and have seen degrees of failure and success.

My 'perfect formula' is pretty simple. Good lighting, adequate flow for your livestock, controller for lights and heater, ATO, dose alk/Mg/Ca when your livestock choices require it, actively contribute to biodiversity and microfauna, over feed A LITTLE, shoot for stable chemical parameters in the zone (not perfect targets), and learn what healthy looks like through the glass in YOUR TANK.

I'll elaborate a bit here.

I tried a pretty sterile tank from dry rock, seeded only with cycled dry rock. The tank never seemed as healthy as the tanks I kept that had LR from the ocean or the follow-on tanks after with dry rock seeded by LFS LR chunks along with sand/sump scoops from a few local reefers. I believe that bristle worms, micro brittle stars and all the other little critters in our tanks make a healthier tank and increase our buffer for mistake. I base this only on my tanks and offer NO real evidence aside from my tanks.

My most successful lighting was MH + T5 or LED + T5. MH alone was great for growth, but not as pleasing aesthetically. LEDs (Kessil, specifically) looked great, but the shadows left the undersides of SPS dead and the tank didn't look quite as good. T5 alone wasn't great for me either, but that was also when I had a pretty sterile tank. I just started a new T5-only tank, so I'll see how important that is. Of all the tanks I've had/seen, I can't find a better looking tank that one that blends MH and T5 or LED and T5.

As for stability, an ATO is key. Dosing can also be critical, but only becomes so when your skeleton-building corals or clams use more 'stuff' than your replace with water changes. I've had tanks (both small and large) that need this, and some that don't. It's totally dependent on your tank's needs. I found not benefit to dose for the sake of dosing.

Skimmers are great and I've had them in every tank I've had. I've also turned them off for months at a time (too lazy to clean or calibrate) and noticed small 'costs' but nothing catastrophic. Lacking a skimmer probably won't break your tank, but having one will certainly help in most cases.

For flow, I prefer Vortechs, but had some nice tanks with Koralea powerheads. Vorterchs make life easier for sure, but are definitely not needed. That said, I'll always look to have them as my primary flow devices...at the used price point.

Bottom line: Use good water/salt, practice good husbandry, keep the water moving, pick your favorite light, keep the water stable (ATO, dosing as required, and a good temp controller), and do your best to be consistent within established norms rather instead of chasing ideal numbers.

Everyone's mileage will vary from this, but that's what I've observed over the last 11 years of reef keeping

 

[Turtlesteve]

So, I can't seem to get a good white balance on my camera, but here's the tank as it stands right now.



Acropora 'purple bonsai' from a 1/2" frag, and 'frogskin' from a 2" frag (looking through the dirty glass on the back).




Steve

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I have a heavy load - fish.
I don't run a skimmer.
I have an algae scrubber & activated carbon, some filter floss.
Dose A.F. Balling, self mixed, auto doser.
LED lights.

This is some sort of green acro,,, March to today.

 

[RioReefr]

I have only been in the hobby for 1 year (and never had an aquarium). Mine is 32G AIO with LPS, Triachna Clam and 5 fish.

What I had learned that most benefited my tank:

1) FLOW ! --- I added an extra wavemaker opposite to my other wavemaker. All my corals gently sway back and forth. There doesn't seem to be any deadspots. That additional very inexpensive ($30) Koralia made significant improvements to everything.
Also keeping return pumps free of algae-buildup so there is good flow overall.

2) Marine Pure Brick -- I ditched all the ceramic rings and Seachem Matrix rock in lieu of 1" brick placed in a back compartment. I really think this made good improvements.

3) Seachem Reef Fundamentals -- I tried 2-part, I tried kalkwasser in ATO with so-so success. I made sure I bought new bottles directly from a reputable online store and made sure the "datestamp" was current. Since using this Fundamentals product (3 different bottles), my corals never looked more fuller and extended. Pretty cheap too, less than $20.

4.) Lawnmower Blenny -- this guy is a must have in a tank imo. An ugly-looking fish, but literally keeps the rock and SB spotless. He even cleans the glass. Also, he is super passive just not pleasing to the eye.

Things that didn't work (or were a waste):

1) Coral Feeding. I don't know, but I bought Coral Frenzy. Didn't seem to do anything one way or another. In my case, I just think the corals benefit more from fish poop and the Reef Plus amino acids/vitamins in the water column.

2) Sand-sifting star. Stupid mistake ! I was told it would clean the SB. It did not and probably just detrimental to the tank. DO NOT BUY!


3) Kalkwasser/Vinegar. I tried this in my ATO. I just found that it was unreliable and inconsistent. I never really found a combination mixture that worked well. The Reef Fundamentals is a better solution for me personally and cost wise fairly insignificant in a small tank. If I had a huge tank with a lot of livestock/corals, I could see using kalkwasser but just didnt work for me.


4) Just trying to always "fix" things. Changing lighting schemes, moving corals, etc. I found just letting things alone everything would work itself on its own. Using patience is so true in this hobby.

 

[Turtlesteve]

So as an update:

Corals/fish are generally happy, except I mildly bleached a couple acropora frags playing with LED intensity.

NO3 and PO4 remain undetectable on the normal range kits. No algae issues. I have plenty of fish so it's not for lack of nutrient load.

My current issue is that Ca/Alk are stuck at 400 ppm / 6.5 dkH and I can't dose enough kalkwasser to get higher (I'm dosing 0.5 dkH / day). I am just starting to see an effect on SPS growth. It appears I under-valued the Ca reactor - In the past I always ran halides and had at least 2X the evaporation (and dosing) rate. At the time, I never noticed any difference in SPS growth rate with or without a Ca reactor, but it's now clear this was due to the higher evaporation rate.

In summary, it's looking like I will require either a Ca reactor or 2-part dosing system.

Steve

 

[fambrough]

I'm not sure I understand the benefit of not running a skimmer. Skimming oxygenates the water as well as removing organic waste.

You asked about thoughts. I think the idea of balance and competing export systems is a little bit mythological. There is always balance and there is never balance; meaning, bacteria are always in competition no matter what. Ditto corals, fish, inverts, etc. Each is always in a state of reaction, growth, decline, etc. So, what is balance? Reducing the competition and maximizing a favorable environment for only the organisms we want to see in our tanks? And only for the organisms we believe to be helping with nutrient export? Maybe.

I'm not trying to be contrary. I have the same goals as most hobbyists: more coral, less algae (with some exceptions), healthy fish.

I too, run my tanks in a moderately simple way. Both my salt water tanks have sumps. It is far and away the most positive thing I've done since staring my first salt water tank in 2005. It allows for easy filtration/removal of detritus with filter socks. A really simple, no brainer solution to removing waste, as long as one changes the socks as needed. I my case, that's about once a week on each tank. And, of course, sumps have the obvious benefit of removing equipment from the DT (e.g. heaters, skimmers, pumps, etc.).

I do not run auto top off. Part of my morning routine is feeding and topping off manually. This assures (for the most part) that I'm paying attention on a daily basis. Also, I dose two part manually on an irregular basis.

I think flow is the number one important part of any system. Lighting would be a very close second. After that, I tend to avoid new trends and gadgets. I do love the radions and vortechs, however. I enjoy my maintenance routine, so auto systems are not for me.

Best of luck and keep us up to date on your progress!

 

[Turtlesteve]

Input is appreciated - I expect that I will constantly update my methodology over time and like to get other viewpoints.

I agree with the two stated functions of skimming but I am trying to accomplish both functions via simpler methods. Not having a skimmer saves me about 20 minutes a week of maintenance where I would previously empty the skimmate and wash the skimmer cup. This may seem trivial but I am also removing a risk factor. In personal experience I've had a skimmer suddenly quit (= algae bloom) or go into overdrive (= messy skimmate overflow).

To me, a simple system implies low maintenance. So behind the critical factors of lighting and water flow, ATO is next because it saves maintenance time and promotes stability. Filter socks are anathema to my goals because they require regular cleaning lest they become a nitrate source.

I do not see anything mythological about competition between nutrient export mechanisms, but perhaps the word "balance" is ambiguous:

- I want a nutrient export system that remains stable without my intervention.

- It's harder to create a steady state with multiple co-dominant organisms competing for the same resource (e.g. NO3, PO4).

Live rock is ideal because it supports both nitrification and denitrification AND because it is durable (both aerobic and anaerobic regions will co-exist over time). The bacterial population will adapt to the system nutrient load without my intervention.

The alternatives:

- Skimmers. They work, but they're only supplemental.
- Deep sand bed. Not always stable (wasn't for me). I suspect they become anoxic over time, lose capacity, and "poison" the tank if disturbed.
- Refugia or algae scrubbers require active management. Algae becomes a larger % of the total system biomass until harvested. This is counter-productive to my goals. The algae biomass also creates risk - what if it all dies suddenly?

Steve


QUOTE=fambrough;25537264]I'm not sure I understand the benefit of not running a skimmer. Skimming oxygenates the water as well as removing organic waste.

You asked about thoughts. I think the idea of balance and competing export systems is a little bit mythological. There is always balance and there is never balance; meaning, bacteria are always in competition no matter what. Ditto corals, fish, inverts, etc. Each is always in a state of reaction, growth, decline, etc. So, what is balance? Reducing the competition and maximizing a favorable environment for only the organisms we want to see in our tanks? And only for the organisms we believe to be helping with nutrient export? Maybe.

I'm not trying to be contrary. I have the same goals as most hobbyists: more coral, less algae (with some exceptions), healthy fish.

I too, run my tanks in a moderately simple way. Both my salt water tanks have sumps. It is far and away the most positive thing I've done since staring my first salt water tank in 2005. It allows for easy filtration/removal of detritus with filter socks. A really simple, no brainer solution to removing waste, as long as one changes the socks as needed. I my case, that's about once a week on each tank. And, of course, sumps have the obvious benefit of removing equipment from the DT (e.g. heaters, skimmers, pumps, etc.).

I do not run auto top off. Part of my morning routine is feeding and topping off manually. This assures (for the most part) that I'm paying attention on a daily basis. Also, I dose two part manually on an irregular basis.

I think flow is the number one important part of any system. Lighting would be a very close second. After that, I tend to avoid new trends and gadgets. I do love the radions and vortechs, however. I enjoy my maintenance routine, so auto systems are not for me.

Best of luck and keep us up to date on your progress![/QUOTE]

 

[Daddyrawg]

I have a heavy load - fish.
I don't run a skimmer.
I have an algae scrubber & activated carbon, some filter floss.
Dose A.F. Balling, self mixed, auto doser.
LED lights.

This is some sort of green acro,,, March to today.

which ALgae scrubber and how do you like it?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

>>>which ALgae scrubber and how do you like it? <<<
I build my own.

 

[Timmste]

Great topic. After 5 years having an sps tank, I decided to go for softy tank combined with a donovan nitrate destroyer. Why? I neglect maintenance, neglect cleaning equipment, neglect measuring water parameters and do not have the budget for an apex or something similar as a preventative measure. I also tried a diy acylic ATS for simplicity (which worked awsome for some time, but still needs maintenance) and made an ionic balanced 2-part system for my sps tank for simplicity and relied on IKS dosing pumps for accuracy.... however, it was a matter of time before something went wrong. A simple timer did not turn off, dosing 40min longs a 2-mole sodiumhydroxide solution into the tank. This makes you humble and realize every piece of equipment adds complexity/risk of it failing. I adapted the tank to me.. best choice I made in all those years.

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