On the topic of feeding anemones

bues0022

New member
I want this thread to progress more as a discussion about the topic rather than bashing one person or the next for their opinions or beliefs. I'll also preface this with the statement that I have no scientific data to support my conclusions, but rather a compilation of many observations I've seen over the past few years.

Feeding an anemone. First off, is it really needed? This point can likely be argued to death on either side of the argument. If one assumes a stable, healthy tank I would actually argue that feeding an anemone is not entirely necessary. I only have first-hand experience with BTA's, but it seems as though given sufficient lighting they are able to produce enough energy via symbiosis to maintain and grow. If I were to desire my anemone to grow faster or larger, feeding gives the extra energy to do just that. I have also seen anecdotal evidence to suggest that feeding may contribute to an unknown extent for BTA's to split. I am extrapolating (potentially incorrectly) that "carpets", LTA's, sebae's, and other lesser common anemones are similar in their ability to get much, if not most, energy from the high output lighting we provide.

However, as many of us have encountered, the anemone may not always be happy and healthy and able to get enough energy from the lights. Whether it has just gone through extreme stressors such as collection/shippment, propogation, surviving a tank crash, bleaching etc. the anemone in an extreme form can be nearly void of all symbiotic zooxanthellae. In this case supplementary feedings can be the difference between a surviving anemone and a tank crash. OR, despite having a healthy aquarium, many decide to feed their anemones anyway. This is not necessarily a bad thing. An anemone with energy stores from feedings may be even healthier and able to withstand greater swings and stress than what it might otherwise be able to.

Now on to the main topic: what to feed our anemones. It seems to be quite common (and in some times recommended) to feed a whole or partial silverside. To this day I am actually a bit confused on this practice, but I digress. I believe - perhaps incorrectly - that this stems from the ability to quickly and easily give a large creature a large amount of meaty food relatively easily. I question this practice from the standpoint of digestion and potential for spoiled food.

Addressing digestion - How do most (not all) animals eat? We chew our food into smaller pieces, swallow, and let our stomach(s) add digesting enzymes to further break down the bits of food. Some creatures (some birds, snakes, etc) swallow whole, but I am going to ignore them for a moment. Why do we chew food? It's all about the surface area/volume ratio. Having smaller pieces of food allows for a much higher surface area/volume ratio which then makes it much easier for digestive enzymes to efficiently break down the food particles into essential nutrients for our body to use. It's like melting butter in a pan. Put a whole stick in the pan and it takes a long time for it to melt. Cutting it up allows it to melt quicker with the same amount of heat input. An anemones stomach is like ours, adding digesting enzymes breaking down the food. One large piece of food will take a considerable amount of work, and thus energy, to completely digest. Just because an anemone can eat a whole fish, or silverside, doesn't necessarily make it the healthiest choice. Giving it smaller pieces of food aids to start the digestion process and allow it to get the most energy out of the food as possible. Cutting up meaty foods to smaller chunks (I've heard #2 pencil eraser sized as a "rule of thumb" tossed around) allows one to feed a considerable amount of meaty food easily, yet in a healthier form than large chunks. How many people have seen a healthy anemone expel a small bit of food? Now, how many have seen a healthy anemone expel a fish carcas or silverside after it caught or ate? The later is likely a much higher count. If it is too hard to digest, why invest the effort?

Discussing quality of food - Would you eat spoiled food? or knowingly eat something that has been frozen/thawed multiple times? Would you feed your dog expired food? Would you feed your fish old, stinky food? Mostly likely no to all questions. Arguably some of the best fish food available today is Rod's food. Why? Yes there are a huge variety of sizes and types of food. However, from what I know, all of the meaty foods in said recipe is human food-grade food. The same approach should be taken to our anemones. If making your own anemone food, purchase it at the grocery store, market, or equivalent making sure it is human food-grade. Bacterial infections from spolied food can affect animals also. For this reason I do not recommend silversides. While they are usually kept frozen, because they are not human-grade food products there lies a potential for several freeze-thaw cycles during shipment. While this could be said of any and all frozen food, I am more suspect with silversides because of the possibility for bacteria external to the fish to remain on it while frozen, and begin colonizing the rest of the tissue during each freeze thaw cycle. Most other frozen foods are either only the meaty part of the fish so it has been separated from the contaminated exterior and washed, or it is packaged in water reducing the exposure to air and ability for bacteria to actively colonize said food. There is even evidence from one of the most respected anemone experts that a bad silverside lead to the rapid demise of an otherwise healthy hadodni carpet anemone. This could happen to any anemone with any spoiled food, and goes to highlight that even creatures in our tanks can be susceptible to infections related to spoiled food.

I know this ended up being a long thread, and I hope it can generate some insight into what is 1)necessary, advisable, and what actually is needed or not, 2)if the choice is to feed, what to feed for proper health, and 3)help everyone keep an enjoy healthy anemones.

IN MY OPINION, this lengthy post can be summed up as follows: Assuming healthy water quality, adequate lights, and anemone, it is unnecessary to feed most anemones. IF the choice is to feed, feed fresh meaty foods of human-grade quality to ensure bacterial infections are not transmitted to target anemone. CUT UP THE FOOD into smaller-sized pieces allowing for ease of digestion for the anemone.

I'd like to hear some opinions from others on their experiences and what they deem necessary vs. unnecessary and other feeding suggestions.
 
In my opinion I go both ways. I propigate my RBTAs.
My display tank is a 90 gallon tank with 2 250W MH and 4 110W high output VHO.
I have one RBTA in my display tank. I dont want it to grow at all so I have not fed it in nearly a year. It still has grown a little and acually split. The split has since gotten a little bigger. So thats on the arguement that you can get by without feeding an anemone if you have right lights.

I propigate anemones in a 29 gallon tank with 1 250W MH. I started with 2 around 7 months ago and now have 7. I feed these RBTAs every other day with chopped up baby silversides. They are healthy and split ever 1 to 2 months. (I enduce splitting with huge water change and moving them around).

Im running out of the baby silversides and am thinking of buying food prepared for humans such as clam or squid from the local grocery store.
This is just what I do.
 
You made some great points bues0022. Though I have one question as far as food size goes....

How do you think they feed in the wild? Does anybody know if wild anemones do in fact eat entire fish or do you think they end up eating smaller pieces of food when brought to them by their host clowns?
 
Zylski - That's exactly the point I was trying to make. They can survive and thrive and be happy without feeding, but extra feeding may cause them to grow and split faster.

Jarret - If I'm remembering correctly, there was a recent CORAL issue that took a look at anemones. Most of the literature surround the diet of anemones deals mostly with the colder water species surrounding Oregon - which are very aggressive and do, in fact, eat rather large items if the opportunity arises. It has been much more difficult to study the natural diet of warm-water nems (can't remember why this was). I'm digging deep in my memory because I can't find my issue (moving this week), but I seem to recall the author having a hypothesis that it is more likely for the warm water species to get a larger number of smaller bits that are floating through the water column rather than larger fish straying accidentally into the tentacles. Part of this may be due to the nem hosting clowns and claiming their territory reducing the probability of other fish coming too close (pure conjecture). I'm not sure how much food the clowns actually contribute towards the diet though.

Though I can completely understand the need to study wild anemones and attempt to duplicate the habitat and feeding as closely as possible, we have to remember that we aren't in the wild, and therefore it may be necessary to modify the diet of captive specimens in order to maintain health. (ex. we don't breath "normal" air for scuba diving, right? even though we survive on it up here. We breath mixed gas in order to keep us alive in a slightly different environment. Overly simplified, yes, but hopefully you see the analogy.)
 
I think an anemone can sustain itself for long period of time without eating chunk food. IMO the chance of a large piece of food making it to the mouth with all the competition in nature for resources would be rare. In the wild or aguarium, it's hard to quantify the amount of particulate food that is swept into its body. Perception or should I say observation that an anemone will go thru some visual difference between feedings and after a feeding it tends to look better. Not saying its healthier but better visually. I have had a very stable and productive RBTA for years so not really worried about its health so I watch and make changes accordingly. A stable system with good light is the key to long term success. The reason I stay in this hobby is becasue of clowns and its symbiotic relationship with the anemone.
 
This is not scientific, but my clownfish is of the opinion that BTAs should be fed as it can frequently be found feeding it's host
 
This is not scientific, but my clownfish is of the opinion that BTAs should be fed as it can frequently be found feeding it's host

Good point. What about the 'nem being fed by a clown? I know they don't necessarily rely on this in the wild, but my clown seems to take good care of his BTA.
 
my sebae is a pig, he sits right underneath my vortech he snags a lot of food every day during feeding time...yes hes much bigger than he was a year ago, but he doesn't really grow anymore, he just seems fat and happy
 
Hey all,

My tank is currently averaging three new RBTA a month. Currently there are around 50 in my 125 tank. I feed maybe once every three months and its only the ones that are easy to access. I prefer not to feed cause, feeding only adds more junk to the water and can cause other problems that I would prefer to avoid. I don't believe feeding has a direct effect on splitting because the easy to access RBTA that I do feed, never seem to split. Maybe Zylski can do a test to see if feeding actually causes splitting to occur more often. So maybe stop feeding you nem and see if it takes longer for it to split.

I believe it takes energy for the nem to digest the large chunk of food and its natural instinct is to "pause" production of the algae until the chunk is either expelled or digested. Just my insight, may not be a scientific reality.

I just give them lots of light, water movement, and quality H20(with some salt) Then let them do their thing.

Good topic thanks for starting Bues0022.
 
Well, I typically consider an animal's needs to be 100% met when regular spawning and/or breeding is observed. In my experience with two species--Heteractis crispa and Macrodactyla doreensis--this was only met with the "help" of regular feedings. In the case of H. crispa, which was in my personal tank, I fed it chopped, complete silversides every other day. She "rewarded" (cursed?) me with semi-annual (or more) spawnings. The M. doreensis was in a store and only spawned for the first time after several months of similar treatment. So you could say that I'm a firm believer in feedings and what they have to offer.
 
I believe feeding isn't 100% critical, but it surely is helpful, especially once the anemone has settled in for a while.

I agree with you 100% about the smaller chopped up food. I am a firm believer that smaller food should be fed to anemones. Once I started chopping food for my BTA, it actually accepted the food that was tried.

One thing that you didn't mention, which kind of relates to feeding is tank temperature. In animals, what happens when temperature goes up? They get more active, and their metabolism increases. I have heard that the "optimal" temperature for Bubble tip anemones (and would assume most tropical anemones that we keep) should be kept at about 83 degrees. According to Calfo for every 2 degree drop in temperature, there is a 10% decrease in metabolism. So if an aquarist keeps their tank at 79 degrees, which is pretty normal, they decrease the metabolism of their anemones to 80% of normal. If the anemone is getting just enough energy from the light at 83, then they won't get enough of their energy at 79 degrees. The anemone in this situation will need supplemental feeding.
 
So if an aquarist keeps their tank at 79 degrees, which is pretty normal, they decrease the metabolism of their anemones to 80% of normal. If the anemone is getting just enough energy from the light at 83, then they won't get enough of their energy at 79 degrees. The anemone in this situation will need supplemental feeding.

I think this is backwards. As temperature increases, the animals metabolism increases. In other words, it burns more energy at higher temps. At lower temps, the metabolism slows, and they burn less energy. So, at lower temps they need less food/energy.
 
Sorry if I wasn't clear. And sorry to have said that Calfo stated the temperature information above. It was actually Ron Shimek.

My question
********
If you were looking to get maximum growth out of a bubble tip anemone, would raising the temperature to 84-86 help growth at all? All things being equal, I believe that an increase in temperature would increase metabolism. Does this equate to increased growth though? Or, would the higher than average temperature just stress the anemone out.

Is there any negative side effects of having a temperature in the 86ish range?
*****

His Answer
******
Raising the temperature to 84-86? Well, that is the NORMAL temperature range in the area that they do best. [w00t] So, without a doubt bringing them into a more normal temperature range will increase their overall well being. For these animals where the normal temperature optimum is at or around 84F, each 2 deg F drop below that means a 10% drop in metabolic rate. So, animals kept at 78F, are at their best only able to metabolize at about 70% of normal, and this is a significant stress.

The increase in temperature will have to be accompanied by a corresponding increase in the amount of food provided for the full effects to be seen and as with all such things one must ensure that all other factors (i. e. skimming, filtration) are increased accordingly.

The bottom line is that they will do better in the 84-86 F range than at any other temperature range and grow faster provided the water is kept clean and the food is shoveled in to them.
******


I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a link to the full (but fairly short) discussion. It resides on another forum. I will if it's alright to do.
 
Sorry if I wasn't clear. And sorry to have said that Calfo stated the temperature information above. It was actually Ron Shimek.

My question
********
If you were looking to get maximum growth out of a bubble tip anemone, would raising the temperature to 84-86 help growth at all? All things being equal, I believe that an increase in temperature would increase metabolism. Does this equate to increased growth though? Or, would the higher than average temperature just stress the anemone out.

Is there any negative side effects of having a temperature in the 86ish range?
*****

His Answer
******
Raising the temperature to 84-86? Well, that is the NORMAL temperature range in the area that they do best. [w00t] So, without a doubt bringing them into a more normal temperature range will increase their overall well being. For these animals where the normal temperature optimum is at or around 84F, each 2 deg F drop below that means a 10% drop in metabolic rate. So, animals kept at 78F, are at their best only able to metabolize at about 70% of normal, and this is a significant stress.

The increase in temperature will have to be accompanied by a corresponding increase in the amount of food provided for the full effects to be seen and as with all such things one must ensure that all other factors (i. e. skimming, filtration) are increased accordingly.

The bottom line is that they will do better in the 84-86 F range than at any other temperature range and grow faster provided the water is kept clean and the food is shoveled in to them.
******


I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a link to the full (but fairly short) discussion. It resides on another forum. I will if it's alright to do.


I think I disagree with everything Ron Shimek has to say.:hmm4:

IMHO, keeping a tank at 85ish, is asking for trouble. At the very best this statement is arguable. " Raising the temperature to 84-86? Well, that is the NORMAL temperature range in the area that they do best." Even if we say he's correct about the "NORMAL" part of his statement{again, very arguable}, it doesn't mean they do best at this temp. Most scientists agree that coral are living at or near their upper thermal limit.
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2003/248/m248p085.pdf

A quote from the link.
"(Williams & Bunkley-Williams 1990,
Buss & Vaisnys 1993, Glynn 1993, Hoegh-Guldberg
1999). Observed temperature responses of corals suggest
they are living very close to their upper thermal
limits (Jokiel & Coles 1990, Lesser 1997)"


http://www.springerlink.com/index/R8P6113W6L328215.pdf
The link above tells of coral bleaching events fallowing elevated temps starting at 86 degrees. If coral reefs are bleaching at 86 degrees, I'm not keeping my anemone that hot.


In the home aquarium, things happen. Temperature fluctuates, heaters fail, chillers fail, thermometers fail.......... If we keep our tanks near the animals upper thermal limit, a rise of one degree could mean the difference between a seemingly healthy anemone and a dead one. Most hobbyists keep their tanks somewhere around 80ish~. If the temp fluctuates a few degrees in one direction or the other, it's no big deal.

I believe your first assumption was correct. "Or, would the higher than average temperature just stress the anemone out."

Shemik's response to your question is simply absurd. Animals do not do "best" near the temperature extremes they can survive. They do "best" somewhere in the middle.
 
Surely animals could do best near the temperature extremes they can survive. Why not? That is where their metabolism is highest and can make use of all the energy they can get.

I don't believe that corals suddenly bleach and die off at 86. I don't have studies to cite, but from what I have read (and observed) their upper limits are not a hard number that is constant and set in stone. My tank has fluctuated from 75-88 degrees (not in the same day) and even at those upper ranges, I didn't lose one coral or anemone. The temperatures rose gradually and fluctuated 4, 5, and even 6 degrees a day. I didn't even notice any stress. I believe the key to this is that they are accustomed to the fluctuations.

I'll have to pick through the link you provided, but my first flag was that it is about one coral. It's not a broad study about reefs, or even about anemones. They could draw those conclusions inside the study, I'm not sure. Hopefully I will have time to pick through it this weekend.

The second article you linked seems to state your point in the abstract but it's not the whole article. I did notice that it didn't say what the normal temperatures of the reef where they studied were. Obviously if the temperature was 6-8 degrees higher than what they are used to there would be bleaching and problems. They just said that the high temperatures and the above normal amounts of sunshine were to blame for the bleaching. I would be interested in reading the entire article.


When my BTA prop tank was going I kept it at 83 degrees. It ran well and the anemones healed from manually division fast. I didn't have the time to take care if it though.


I'm going to post the link to the other forum. Feel free to delete the link if it's not allowed mods (sorry in advance if it is).
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic88809-11-1.aspx?Highlight=temperature


If it's not allowed I'll just copy paste the whole thing if that's acceptable.
 
Surely animals could do best near the temperature extremes they can survive. Why not? That is where their metabolism is highest and can make use of all the energy they can get.
This is largely dependent on the organism. For corals, it is true that their metabolic optimum occurs very close to their maximum. For anemones, it may largely be the same, though I don't have enough data on that.

I don't believe that corals suddenly bleach and die off at 86. I don't have studies to cite, but from what I have read (and observed) their upper limits are not a hard number that is constant and set in stone. My tank has fluctuated from 75-88 degrees (not in the same day) and even at those upper ranges, I didn't lose one coral or anemone. The temperatures rose gradually and fluctuated 4, 5, and even 6 degrees a day. I didn't even notice any stress. I believe the key to this is that they are accustomed to the fluctuations.
This is true. These kinds of fluctuations can occur in the wild, but that doesn't make them non-stressful. Certainly tolerable in many cases, but probably not optimal, either. The temperatures the corals are usually kept in will dictate what they can and can't tolerate. Corals and anemones kept in somewhat warmer temps will probably (true in many cases) be less likely to bleach when exposed to even higher temps. The same goes for fluctuations. You can acclimate most of them to fluctuations, even if it isn't optimal.

The second article you linked seems to state your point in the abstract but it's not the whole article. I did notice that it didn't say what the normal temperatures of the reef where they studied were. Obviously if the temperature was 6-8 degrees higher than what they are used to there would be bleaching and problems. They just said that the high temperatures and the above normal amounts of sunshine were to blame for the bleaching. I would be interested in reading the entire article.
Yup.


When my BTA prop tank was going I kept it at 83 degrees. It ran well and the anemones healed from manually division fast. I didn't have the time to take care if it though.
My experience as well. I have always maintained my tanks at ~82 or somewhat higher.
 
Not sure if this is a good thing or not but my RBTA's seem to love live tube worms (blood worms?) I feed my fish these once a week and a few almost aways drift into my RBTA's who then promplty gobble them up...
 
I have feed my 12" Red Rose Bubble Tip(24 months in tank), one 14" Green Bubble Tip, and one 6" Green Bubble Tip anemones in my tank. My Red Rose is now an 8" and a 6" Red Rose Bubble Tip as a month ago it split.

I buy fresh frozen razor clam in one pound packages from the local Quinault Tribe. They seem to love it and thrive. I have tried greasy food like squid, scallops, etc. and they are not accepted. I have tossed in some silverside pieces in the past and this was taken readily. I do feed Kent Marine Microvert, Phytoplex, Zooples, Chromoplex, along Selcon and Vita-Chem every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and I think this helps although it is not a solid food I think the anemones take liquid food as an addition to solid food.
 

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