OT: Auto dealer legal advice

bromion

bromion

Active member
It was bound to happen; I got scammed by an auto dealer. Specifically, I bought a Certified Pre-Owned BMW from a BMW dealer who did not disclose fairly extensive body work to the vehicle at some point in the past. My independent mechanic does not believe there was frame or mechanical damage (though hard to say for sure), but the body was definitely damaged, and the entire driver's side was repainted in a low-quality way.

All I got back in response from the dealership was that they could have their body shop take a look at it. Refused to consider taking the car back or providing diminished value restitution, or even allowing me to take the car to a shop of MY choice to be resurfaced at their expense. The used car sales manager insisted that the condition of the body panels or presence of dent repair / bondo is not considered in the Certification process, which is absurd. If you look at the BMW CPO inspection form it clearly lists about 15 items under Body including "Fit and Finish."

At this point, I still need to talk to the general manager of the dealership and the dealership's parent company (Sonic Automotive Inc), as well as BMW of North America. I am preparing to take the dealership to small claims court, but I'd rather not of course.

Any advice out there? Anyone been in a similar situation? Any lawyers here interested in providing advice in exchange for corals? : )
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14939290#post14939290 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by P_Productions
Good Luck! There hoping you go cry yourself to sleep about the deal you got and leave it alone. Go for the jugular!
Click to expand...

Oh hell yeah! : ) I think I have quite a good case for small claims court. I have no qualms about taking it that far.
 
Was it not listed on Carfax or did you not look into it? Just asking because my understanding is that while CPO vehicles only state that they pass inspection and depending on the vehicle may have it's original warranty or an additional CPO warranty but not that it was never repaired or damaged in any way. However I believe any shop that does body repair work is supposed to report the VIN and what the damages etc are. Carfax just runs the VIN and brings up any claims that have been filed with that VIN.

Again I am no expert but I imagine if you didn't get one when you bought it you probably should now to see if an accident was reported. I used to work at a performance shop and had a guy bring in a Porsche that he bought used. They told him it had never had any issues at all but no Carfax or anything like that. Once we got it up on the rack it was clear that it was 2 cars. They had actually taken 2 totaled vehicles, one from a rear end accident and another with front end damage and cut them in half, did some incredible body work on the top side and made one new car out of it. I had never seen anything like it and the guy was ****ed to say the least. I doubt yours was that bad but it just goes to show that it does happen.
 
hey bromion my buddy worked for BMW ..i gave him a call and he said go straight to the top.. call the dealer one last time tell them that you want to get your down and all money back since the car was sold as certified..then you go to the main BMW office and explain your situation..BMW will take care of it.. basically the dealer will get ripped a new one for doing shaddy crap like that...

good luck dude
 
Go over there heads, like some one already said. The dealership may not give two craps about you, but the corporation will.

I'd call my insurance agent and see if they have any ideas as well, they probably run into things like this and might have some good advice :)
 
If you are going to court, you can always file in superior court for recision of contract due to fraud. Will you win? Hell if I know but if you do your homework and it clearly states in the Certified Pre-Owned BMW guidelines that the bodywork issue is covered, then you just might have a case. Yoou would get your money back and they would get the car back.
 
Thanks for the ideas, everyone! I will contact BMW NA and Sonic Auto first thing on Monday.

I did, of course, investigate the Carfax. I don't even bother to look at a car without running the Carfax first. Otherwise it's just a waste of time. This car's Carfax is squeaky clean. If I had to guess, the owner scraped a concrete pole or similar along the driver's side, producing paint and dent damage. Or, someone hit him in a parking lot. Either way, it was done under-the-table and at a shady body shop, because it was never reported (and it was a cheapo job).

My main case is that the car was CPO. Glad most of you think it's reasonable, at least!
 
While what they did was shady, you are stuck with the car. I used to work for a BMW Dealership, and have seen it happen all the time. The techs do not check the vehicle for body damage, as far as the CPO goes. I personally would give BMWNA a shot, but I dont think much will happen. They can always lie and say you recieved a carfax, or if it doesnt show up on the carfax, then it doesnt show up. Theres nothing the dealer could do if it doesnt show up on the carfax. They legally didnt KNOWINGLY sell a damaged car. It has happened to our dealership before, they go to the owner, and he backs up the salesman. BMWNA might encourage them to refund you, and might bite their head off, but they wont be the end all solution to this.

We had a car come in from a Las Vegas BMW Dealership. IT was a newer 745Li, real nice car. Well the car had been rolled and repaired. The thing that wasnt repaired were the sunroof drains, which drain down the A pillar, through to the wheel wells. To replace these drains, you have to remove the windshield... AND CUT OFF THE ROOF. Needless to say the driver was screwed because a used car is sold as is, regardless of CPO warranty.

Do what you can, but I believe you will be stuck with the car. I hope you win the battle.... just dont give up.
 
Thanks for the info, Joe. I think I have a decent case thanks to the 2006 California law that introduced the Car Buyer's Bill of Rights. It has specific CPO provisions, which I believe the dealer violated. In small claims court, the reasonability of my claim will be at issue, not necessarily the letter of the law, but I think it's reasonable.

I don't see why the 745Li buyer you described should be screwed. The CPO report should disclose that defect prior to the buyer purchasing the car. Did that buyer pursue the dealer in court?
 
Interesting case, is them certifying the body work specifically mentioned in the contract? If so then you've got a pretty good case being that your independent mechanic saw damage that was evident enough for their mechanics to have noticed had they been following the contract.

How much did you pay for the car? In small claims the maximum is $7500.
 
There is no contract that specifies what is in the CPO report. However, the CPO report from BMW CLEARLY includes "fit and finish" of the body work. So, if it's on the form, that indicates it should be certified. The manager tried to argue that it's not included in the certification, but it's plainly stated on the form.

In small claims, I will only seek diminished value and repainting costs, not the entire cost of the car.
 
Long Beach BMW, eh? Sonic sucks.

If they check "fit and finish" and you didn't notice it in broad daylight, I think your argument is a little weak. It was only discovered under a fairly detailed body inspection.

Let their body shop have a crack at it. They will at least re-shoot the paint and make sure the panel is straight and aligned.

Honestly... It is the best you are going to get IMHO. Just kinda the nature of the beast.
 
Monrovia, not Long Beach.

Indeed, I did not notice it at first, but my mechanic noticed it right off the bat, before even starting a detailed inspection. I can tell now, of course, without carefully looking. The used car manager also acknowledged it when I went back in, but he kept insisting that it was not part of the CPO inspection, and that they didn't notice it before. The car was on their lot for over a month, washed repeatedly, and inspected for certification. I find his denial hard to believe.
 
Whatever happens, we should all take this as a lesson: "certified pre-owned" isn't worth anything, especially the premium you pay for it. Even if everything seems completely credible and a car has a clean Carfax, have your own trusted mechanic inspect it. I let the CPO fool me into thinking I didn't need an independent inspection!
 
If the dealer did not hid some thing, that they knew about, there is really not much you can do. You can not expect the dealer to know everything that happened to a used car they are selling. They have to rely a lot on what the customer they got the car from told them and inspections. As an ex dealer, I have been on the other end. I actually unknowingly sold a motorcycle that had a salvage title once. When I found this out, I was mortified. I immediately contacted the buyer and let him know and gave him several options to remedy the situation for him. One of the options I offered him was to return the motorcycle.

In my opinion a clean CarFax report means nothing, except nothing was reported to Carfax! Unless things have changed since I got out of the business there is nothing requiring a dealer to disclose possible past damage to a car. That is one reason people trade in cars, trucks and motorcycles. Believe me, many people think they will just get rid of the problem and let the dealer take care of it.
Good luck!
 
I think if you stick on it and give them enough of a hassle they'll buckle and repair the car for you - I don't think they're going to take it back.
 
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