OT: The GREEN Thread!

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

I wanted to post a thread where we can share "green" ideas. I got this approved by a mod so we should have no problem there as long as people don't get political or do anything else against the UA.

I would like to think I'm pretty in the know about recycling, alternative energy, and other "green" issues. But every week I hear about something that I did not know could be recycled or a government rebate for you to buy solar panels and so on. I wonder what else I don't know about "green".

So I decided to start this thread so our group can share information and ideas with each other. Please add your knowledge to this thread as something that may be common knowledge to you may not be to someone else.

I will start off with just a few to get the ball rolling. I think most of these are common knowledge but if it helps a few it helps us all.

Your old tennis shoes can be recycled and made into sport courts for kids playgrounds. Their looks to be a collection site in Anthem one in Scottsdale and a bunch in Tempe. Check this site out for a map(click on the globe and enter your zip code and a map pops up) http://www.nikereuseashoe.com/get-involved/individual-shoe-recycling

Old cells phones can be recycled at almost any cell phone store

Old batteries of ANY kind can be recycled at Batteries Plus and possibly at any of their competitors.

CLF light bulbs and power tool batteries can be recycled at Lowe's and Home Depot. It is important to recycle these bulbs as they contain mercury in them which will be released if they are broken in a landfill.

I believe all grocery store will recycle used plastic bags, some will even give you a .5c for each reusable bag you bring in with you for your shopping.

APS, (and possibly SRP) offer a program where they will pay for 50% of your homes solar system purchase. The government also has rebates for solar capping out at $8K. Sounds crazy that APS would pay for you to be able to stop using them but its true.

I understand some people believe that recycling and "green" thinking is a joke or a plan by someone to get rich and they refuse to believe that it is the right thing to do. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but I ask you to keep that opinion out of this thread so it does not turn into an arguement thread that gets closed. If you must voice an opinion like that start your own thread so mine does not get closed Thanks
Looking forward to input from other!

 

[SHARKBAITNC]

Cool thread im going to tag along

Nick

 

[Philwd]

I looked at the solar rebates just a few weeks ago and I don't remember the SRP $$ being that high. Maybe it was the Az gov contribution was low. Still looked to be a very long payback period. 10 years or so. It was tough to determine the best unit and the actual power they delivered. I went to the incident solar irradation tables to get estimates of how much power we can get here. My roof is not the best layout though for solar so I gave it up.

On my old house in Mesa I put up solar water heating. 20 years or so ago. Back then the rebates covered 75% of the cost so payback was 3 years. But the thermal expansion and contractions that occured daily eventually would wear out the piping causing leaks. Replaced the piping panel 3 times. I wonder if this will be a problem with the panels.

Question though on associations. In Az can they block you putting solar on the roof?

 

[Helfrichs Chic]

^^ Me too Phil! Been looking into solar for my house. I have a packet right here... I was told that the 3 Kilowatt system is at $7500 right now with all the rebates and tax credits... PLUS I read somewhere that there is a new bill to be passed within next month that is an ADDITIONAL 30% off the system, a government rebate (so 80% of total) that is supposed to bring the total cost down to about 2 grand. If this is actually the case I WILL be putting them on my house. I have a HOA. They state that you an have solar panels as long as they are low lying but have to have the HOA approval.

 

[Che]

Okay, I don't have a clue as to what a 3 KW system will power. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Che's DW]

Re: OT: The GREEN Thread!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14468075#post14468075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NaClH20NMYVEIN
I believe all grocery store will recycle used plastic bags, some will even give you a .5c for each reusable bag you bring in with you for your shopping.

Along those lines, the plastic-bag recycling containers located at most, if not all, grocery stores these days take much much more than just plastic grocery bags. They also recycle:

• newspaper bags
• dry cleaning bags
• bread bags
• produce bags
• toilet paper, napkin, and paper towel wraps
• furniture wrap
• electronic wrap
• plastic retail bags (hard plastic and string handles removed)
• grocery bags
• zip lock bags (remove hard components)
• cereal box liners
• diaper wrap (packaging)
• plastic shipping envelopes (remove labels)
• case wrap (e.g., snacks, water bottles)
• all clean, dry bags labeled #2 or #4

What they don't take:

NO food or cling wrap
NO prepackaged food bags including frozen food bags (e.g., prewashed salad bags)
NO film that has been painted or has excessive glue
NO other bags or films
NO bio-based or compostable plastic bags

http://www.plasticbagrecycling.org

 

[macboat]

This is an excellent thread! I am a big fan of green and I am very annoyed that so small percentage of houses in AZ actually intalled solar panel.

Besides the recycle idea, couple of thoughts:

*on demand water heater
*dual flush toilet
*raise/lower temperature setting at summer/winter
*check insulations of your house
*lowE windows or some sort of tint
*car pool
*biking to school/work once every week (if not too far...)
*go devils!

 

[Philwd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14468599#post14468599 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Helfrich’s Chic
^^ Me too Phil! Been looking into solar for my house. I have a packet right here... I was told that the 3 Kilowatt system is at $7500 right now with all the rebates and tax credits... PLUS I read somewhere that there is a new bill to be passed within next month that is an ADDITIONAL 30% off the system, a government rebate (so 80% of total) that is supposed to bring the total cost down to about 2 grand. If this is actually the case I WILL be putting them on my house. I have a HOA. They state that you an have solar panels as long as they are low lying but have to have the HOA approval.

That quote sounds very low. From what notes I can find it was more like 20-30K installed to supply 40% of my home's needs. Or something like that(it's late and been many weeks). The key is the summer months the power you are saving is high tier so that's where you get the savings. Normal tier really doesn't save at all. Assuming you are on time of use plans.

I do not remember at all the rebates being that high. There were caps that kicked in that when you got to the bigger units so maybe that's why the pay back looked so bad. I'll have to look again. SRP was a big one, AZ state gov was capped fairly low couple grand and Feds credits can't remember.

 

[macboat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14469075#post14469075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Philwd
That quote sounds very low. From what notes I can find it was more like 20-30K installed to supply 40% of my home's needs.

This is what I got too.

 

[vanillagorila]

I'm on the waiting list for solar city, they do a lease program for 15 years. where you don't have to pay the big upfront cost for solar. At first I was worried because 15 years is a long time but then again I couldn't sell my house if I wanted to in this economy. I'm getting a 8.2 Kw system.

 

[psimitry]

Good examples of living "green":

*on demand water heater
*dual flush toilet
*raise/lower temperature setting at summer/winter
*check insulations of your house
*lowE windows or some sort of tint
*car pool
*biking to school/work once every week (if not too far...)
*go devils! [/B]

Bad examples of living "green":

*recycling

:eek1:

I know. I was shocked by the concept too. Turns out that for most things we tend to think of as recyclable (paper, glass, aluminum cans, plastic water bottles, etc), it's actually better for the environment if they're produced from scratch.

This isn't everything obviously, of the list I mentioned above, aluminum is VERY recyclable and is cheaper to do and produces less emissions and toxic chemicals related to manufacture than does producing it from raw material. Glass also tends to be pretty good, and plastic water bottles are getting there (a few more years of research and stuff should hopefully be good to go).

But OMG paper is AWFUL for recycling. Just awful. Consider this:

To recycle paper involves putting it in the blue can. Then the paper has to be trucked (producing CO2 emissions) over to a recycling center which has to put all of it on a conveyor (more CO2), then that paper has to be hand sorted to remove everything that isn't recyclable (magazines, most advertising materials, essentially everything that has been "waxed" (this is probably a good 40-50% of what goes into a recycling plant), then what is NOT recyclable has to go to a land fill (more CO2), and what IS gets trucked over to a reprocessing plant. There the paper is put onto a shredder, bleached (using some of the most toxic chemicals in industrial applications today (and are single use)), and then pounded into paper forms that may or may not be used by you and me, or they are simply bound up into blocks and turned into attic insulation if the recycling company can't find a buyer (which could have been done without sorting the paper out, or bleaching it).

So, what you've got after recycling is a product that isn't as good as product made from raw material, about two-times the CO2 in the atmosphere than would have been there if it had just been taken to a landfill, a bunch of toxic chemicals that have gone beyond their usefulness and now must be disposed of (hopefully safely), and an increased sense of self worth because you're "helping the environment."

Even more interesting is that most of the raw paper producers that operate in the country use renewable tree farms as their wood pulp source and the rest that don't are in the process of doing so. So you're not even helping preserve forest area by recycling! :eek1:

Additionally, the nice thing about paper is that it's biodegradable. Like REALLY FREAKING FAST. Once it gets buried in a moist environment, it becomes part of the soil in like, a year IIRC.

Note: This doesn't apply to newspaper recycling centers. They typically go straight from newspaper to shredded paper insulation and are OK in my book. But every time I see one of those insulators on my Starbucks cup, I can't help but chuckle a little when I see that they're made from recycled material (and don't even get me started on recycled notebook paper).

On topic

My little "Green" initiative: I don't buy water bottles anymore. I used to buy the cases at costco of them. Then a friend showed me his groovy stainless steel water bottle (which I then bought) and I conveniently fill it via my glass water bottle from the fridge (if I want it cold) or from my RO/DI system (if my glass bottle is empty).

 

[OwenInAZ]

Phil -- under Arizona law HOA's cannot prohibit you from placing solar panels on your roof. Some (like Adrian's) my try by saying things like "low lying" or "HOA approval" to make themselves feel more powerful, but in the end the law is on solar's side. If they say no, you put them up and fax them the relevant section of the ARS

Besides, my understanding is that most solar panels are fairly low profile these days anyway.

Like Psimitry, I'm a big fan of my Nalgene for water carryage. Holds a liter at a whack, and I can fill it from any standard issue tap

I defintitely agree with the "ride your bike" idea, too, but I'm a little biased. For most people, even a 10 mile commute could be accomplished in about 30 minutes. 20 miles an hour is a decent steady pace once you're in reasonable shape. A lot of people I know spend that much time in their cars to get to work, burning away fossil fuel. And hey, a lot of people may perfectly good money to go to a gym to ride a bike that doesn't go anywhere! How far is the grocery store from your house? A mile, two miles tops? Throw some panniers (a trailer if you have kids) on your bike and away you go!

 

[Elliott]

great thread Ryan, your tank build is a good example of going greener, using natural light and lower energy components when possible

 

[macboat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14470225#post14470225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Elliott
great thread Ryan, your tank build is a good example of going greener, using natural light and lower energy components when possible

Is there a link to his tank building thread? I couldn't find it... I am all for green..~~@@

 

[mr dt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14468599#post14468599 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Helfrich’s Chic
^^ Me too Phil! Been looking into solar for my house. I have a packet right here... I was told that the 3 Kilowatt system is at $7500 right now with all the rebates and tax credits... PLUS I read somewhere that there is a new bill to be passed within next month that is an ADDITIONAL 30% off the system, a government rebate (so 80% of total) that is supposed to bring the total cost down to about 2 grand. If this is actually the case I WILL be putting them on my house. I have a HOA. They state that you an have solar panels as long as they are low lying but have to have the HOA approval.

I work with a guy that is having solar installed at his house. It is a 5.1. The cost to him was 6900 dollars. That system will cover 51% of his usage. His system is also expandable so if he decides to add on later, maybe when costs drop or the system is paid off, he can without huge expense. He also stated that he may do this to build up over 10 in order to run his a/c. I have been thinking of installing solar to help cut pool operation expense of summer months. I have a salt system which requires me to run the pump longer than normal. Also since iI work for a Chevy dealer, I am waiting for the Volt to arrive. This car will truely kick butt in the green area of transportation. Imagine approx 670 miles on 12 gals of gas or 40 miles between charges. It will fully charge in less than 6 hrs. The car is about the size of our malibu.

 

[macboat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14470696#post14470696 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr dt
I work with a guy that is having solar installed at his house. It is a 5.1. The cost to him was 6900 dollars. That system will cover 51% of his usage. His system is also expandable so if he decides to add on later, maybe when costs drop or the system is paid off, he can without huge expense. He also stated that he may do this to build up over 10 in order to run his a/c. I have been thinking of installing solar to help cut pool operation expense of summer months. I have a salt system which requires me to run the pump longer than normal. Also since iI work for a Chevy dealer, I am waiting for the Volt to arrive. This car will truely kick butt in the green area of transportation. Imagine approx 670 miles on 12 gals of gas or 40 miles between charges. It will fully charge in less than 6 hrs. The car is about the size of our malibu.

will you get some sort killer deal?

 

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14470684#post14470684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by macboat
Is there a link to his tank building thread? I couldn't find it... I am all for green..~~@@

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1451069

 

[KarlBob]

If things go according to plan, our neighbors in California will soon have the option to buy nifty electric three-wheelers from Aptera. They plan to offer two plugs: one that fits a standard household socket and one that seems to be emerging as the preferred arrangement for electric charging stations.

Speaking of charging stations, San Francisco recently opened three of them, across the street from City Hall. Three stations aren't going to change everything overnight, but it's a start.

A man named Shai Agassi has a wild idea for electric cars: price the car as a commodity (dirt cheap to nearly free), and make a profit on recharging fees. It's more like the cell phone industry than the conventional auto industry. His company, called Better Place, is talking with Israel, Denmark, Australia, California, Hawaii and Canada about installing networks of charging stations.

Another cool Better Place idea: battery exchange at charging stations. If you didn't have time to wait for your car's battery to be charged, you could exchange it instead. Your low-charge battery would be switched out for a fully-charged one, and you'd drive away. The station would recharge your battery and swap it into someone else's car. Swapping would cost more than waiting around for a charge, but there's always a cost for convenience.

 

[Helfrichs Chic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14469075#post14469075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Philwd
That quote sounds very low. From what notes I can find it was more like 20-30K installed to supply 40% of my home's needs. Or something like that(it's late and been many weeks). The key is the summer months the power you are saving is high tier so that's where you get the savings. Normal tier really doesn't save at all. Assuming you are on time of use plans.

I do not remember at all the rebates being that high. There were caps that kicked in that when you got to the bigger units so maybe that's why the pay back looked so bad. I'll have to look again. SRP was a big one, AZ state gov was capped fairly low couple grand and Feds credits can't remember.

There are some pretty huge discounts. This is actually in the $20k price range but with all the incentives, rebates, and refunds it comes down to about $7500 and if Obama passes a new bill on this it may come down even lower. The guy I talked to was actually having me do some design work for him, and was very enthusiastic about his job lol. He did advise me to wait to see what will happen next month with that bill. I believe he said it would cover about 50% of the eletric bill. Here is his info (MODS if this is against the UA feel free to delete ) Todd Smith (S Cubed Energy) 650-333-2409

The thing I liked about it is after looking into what it actually appreciates your home its like 18k. That's always nice.

 

[Philwd]

Ok here's my math. Someone tell me if I did anything wrong.

My home uses on avg 4500 kwh/month or 150 kwh/day on average. That is 150000 watt*hours daily of energy usage.

Each panel produces roughly 210 watts. Multiply by average hrs of sunlight in Az of 6 hrs(from solar irradiation tables). Equals 1260 watt*hours generation daily.

For me to cover 50% of my needs I need 60 panels. Or 11-12kw system. About 4X Adrian's size.

Quotes I see are ~ 60K which again seems to be in the range Adrian was quoted.

So SRP rebate is $3 per watt equals 38000 on a 12.6kw system. Cost now $22000.

Subtract Az credit of 1000. Cost now 21000.

From this comes the Fed 30% tax credit of $6300.

So total cost is $14700. I figure I'd save ~ $1200/yr in electricity so the payback is 11 years.

Now there is a catch here. If I had more cash available I could assign the SRP rebate to myself and get the Fed 30% to apply to the entire 60K price. But I don't.

If another 30% Fed credit comes on top of the present 30% that would reduce the cost to $6400 which is just under 6 year payback. Getting close now. As the warranties are typically 10 years I'd like to reach break even well before a warranty expires.

Of course since those are tax credits you don't see them till Apr next year. Assuming of course you paid that much in Fed and state taxes to begin with. If not you can roll over to the following year.

What did I do wrong?