Over 150 gallons and skimmerless?
- Thread starter freddy4130
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freddy4130
In Memoriam
aquqbucket's tank = tha shizzle. Keep'em coming.
THolleyH46
New member
I got my tank in Japan and it was plumbed with metric PVC pipe, I have considered re-plumbing it for years. From 2004 to the present I have ran it successfully without a sump, although I am considering breaking it down and re-plumbing it as we speak. The main reason, is to use a better skimmer. I don't like hang ons (hang-ins), etc. . .
Without the sump, I have been running a large Lee's counter-current skimmer in my 120G. Go ahead - laugh. It is only rated for up to a 90G tank. But guess what - it is working. I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 0 nitrate. Ny Crocea Clams and many LPS/SPS all doing well and growing like crazy! I took my overflow box and that is where I have the skimmer, and also filled it up with macroalage (chaetomorpha).
The reason I want the sump back is to use a larger skimmer, and also to put my Iwaki pumps back to use with the closed loop as well - don't like the appearance of powerheads in the tank, although they are quite functional.
If you know what you're doing, you can accomplish anything you want in this hobby. Just depends on what you want to keep and how diligent you are at maintaining it.
IMO, the biggerst problem I have with the counter-current skimmer is the water level, without a sump you're water level is every changing and I refuse to use an auto topoff. That being said, I want nitrates at 0, so I want to skim.
If you're willing to keep just fish only and aren't so concerned about water quality you can get by with minimal equipment. What are you looking to keep?
Without the sump, I have been running a large Lee's counter-current skimmer in my 120G. Go ahead - laugh. It is only rated for up to a 90G tank. But guess what - it is working. I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 0 nitrate. Ny Crocea Clams and many LPS/SPS all doing well and growing like crazy! I took my overflow box and that is where I have the skimmer, and also filled it up with macroalage (chaetomorpha).
The reason I want the sump back is to use a larger skimmer, and also to put my Iwaki pumps back to use with the closed loop as well - don't like the appearance of powerheads in the tank, although they are quite functional.
If you know what you're doing, you can accomplish anything you want in this hobby. Just depends on what you want to keep and how diligent you are at maintaining it.
IMO, the biggerst problem I have with the counter-current skimmer is the water level, without a sump you're water level is every changing and I refuse to use an auto topoff. That being said, I want nitrates at 0, so I want to skim.
If you're willing to keep just fish only and aren't so concerned about water quality you can get by with minimal equipment. What are you looking to keep?
freddy4130
In Memoriam
Ideally I would like to have a wide variety of corals including SPS. I do not, however, feel the need to load my aquarium with stuff. I see many beautiful aquariums that are totally full. I like a more clean, uncluttered look. So the plan is to have lots of water with a ton of room for my couple of fish to swim and enough rock to support the life I want to keep. Some large super porous pieces I guess. I read so much about the weight of the rock. I guess you can really only calculate rock by weight, but it obviously has little to do with the weight, but more to do with the surface area of the rock. SO I would like large pieces of lightweight porous rock.
THolleyH46
New member
Less bioload makes for easier to keep water conditions favorable. Nonetheless, you still have to regularly conduct water changes and I still recommend that skimming is a good idea, but you can go without it. Nevertheless, you'll need some sort of filtration then like a canister to use occasionally for detritus, etc. - so why not just use a skimmer? The berlin method is proven to work incredibly well.
freddy4130
In Memoriam
Just not a huge fan of all the plumbing and craziness. I just see so many guys go through so much trouble making everything look wonderful only to have PVC chilling behind, inside, on top of their tanks. Looks awful.
freddy4130
In Memoriam
lol.
THolleyH46
New member
You can run a successful tank without a sump, I know what you mean about the PVC. Although, you don't need to go nuts with flow to use a sump either. Do you plan to use power heads for flow? My issue is I think the PVC looks better than having powerheads. I also think 3/4" PVC (whay most folks use for return) is too big and bulky to plumb a tank with. Personally, I'm a fan of 1/2" (use Sched 80 Gray pipe) white looks like crap if it is visibly. If its in the overflow or under the tank doesn't really matter. If your tank is black the gray blends in real well and isn't nearly as noticable. If you use a return line and have a high flow pump (via closed loop) you can "hide" the plumbing if it is 1/2" and reduce from 3/4" to three or four spray nozzles with 1/2" pipe that you can aim from different corners of the tank. I use 45 degree elbows (Sch 80, Gray) out of each overflow corner, and run one pipe up through the overflow around the back and to one of the front corners of the tank. Being acrylic (in my case) the thinner pipe does not protrude over the lip of the tank and rests right atop the ledge than runs all along the tank. (when it is re-plumbed that is)
I don't use a top/cover/lid but do suspend metal halides over the open tank. I then take pieces of coroplast (black corrugated plastic, looks like plastic cardboard) and make a quasi hood. It keeps the light from creeping into the living room (over the tank and drowning out the living room) Very easy to remove for maintenance/feeding. With the coroplast "quasi-canopy" and the stand doors closed no plumbing is visible. Nothing in the back, flush against the wall.
I don't use a top/cover/lid but do suspend metal halides over the open tank. I then take pieces of coroplast (black corrugated plastic, looks like plastic cardboard) and make a quasi hood. It keeps the light from creeping into the living room (over the tank and drowning out the living room) Very easy to remove for maintenance/feeding. With the coroplast "quasi-canopy" and the stand doors closed no plumbing is visible. Nothing in the back, flush against the wall.
THolleyH46
New member
Here's a shot of it plumbed, you can see the spay nozzles (2 in the overflow, left) and one in the front right corner. One of them has a piece of plastic hose on in it (not necessary), with the coroplast in place. I think the gray nozzles look better than the power heads I now have all over the tank.
Whatever works for you.
Sorry for the 3 weeks old bump.
I been in this hobby for nearly 15 years. I ran a skimmer until about 5 years ago.
But, until I took my tank down a little over a year ago..because we moved and bought a new house. I was skimmerless for over 4-5 years and I had a 220G tank, SPS dominated.
I also had a 55G fuge, loaded with LR, rumble, Chaeto and I did maybe 25% water changes every 4-5 months and never had any problem.
My bioload consisted of 2 Percula mated pairs, Sohal, Powder Blue, Adult Emporer and I think 4-6 Fire Shrimp and a handful of pepermint shrimp.
My levels were perfect nearly. Every now and then, my Nitrates would get slightly bumped..but nothing alarming. Just something to keep an eye on.
I just felt like the life in my tank florished. Polyps on my SPS blossomed out more. Looked happy and pods galore.
Granted, newbies don't want to jump right in and go skimmerless. This is something you learn and in fact, you never stop learning in this hobby. But, going skimmerless, you have to go super slow. Well, you should be anyway, but you go slower skimmerless.
I finally got my 220G finally set up and had the 6-7' DSB. My sand was all live when I put it in. I bought 600lbs from a guy tanking down his 300G back in November. Last week, I put in 150 lbs of Totoka LR and that tank will now sit until end of March, early April before I start putting any inverts in there. I may buy a bunch of Nass. snails in a few weeks. But that will be pretty much about it..until, I notice some alage growning on the rocks and I'll buy some scarletts.
But, I say again..this is something you DO NOT want to attempt..if you are new to the hobby. It'll come back and bite you in the *** and quick. Plus, you go super slow with this kinda set up. I suggest only experienced reefers to try this.
I been in this hobby for nearly 15 years. I ran a skimmer until about 5 years ago.
But, until I took my tank down a little over a year ago..because we moved and bought a new house. I was skimmerless for over 4-5 years and I had a 220G tank, SPS dominated.
I also had a 55G fuge, loaded with LR, rumble, Chaeto and I did maybe 25% water changes every 4-5 months and never had any problem.
My bioload consisted of 2 Percula mated pairs, Sohal, Powder Blue, Adult Emporer and I think 4-6 Fire Shrimp and a handful of pepermint shrimp.
My levels were perfect nearly. Every now and then, my Nitrates would get slightly bumped..but nothing alarming. Just something to keep an eye on.
I just felt like the life in my tank florished. Polyps on my SPS blossomed out more. Looked happy and pods galore.
Granted, newbies don't want to jump right in and go skimmerless. This is something you learn and in fact, you never stop learning in this hobby. But, going skimmerless, you have to go super slow. Well, you should be anyway, but you go slower skimmerless.
I finally got my 220G finally set up and had the 6-7' DSB. My sand was all live when I put it in. I bought 600lbs from a guy tanking down his 300G back in November. Last week, I put in 150 lbs of Totoka LR and that tank will now sit until end of March, early April before I start putting any inverts in there. I may buy a bunch of Nass. snails in a few weeks. But that will be pretty much about it..until, I notice some alage growning on the rocks and I'll buy some scarletts.
But, I say again..this is something you DO NOT want to attempt..if you are new to the hobby. It'll come back and bite you in the *** and quick. Plus, you go super slow with this kinda set up. I suggest only experienced reefers to try this.
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
I run my tank similar to Aquabucket, but my needs allow me to as I have a softy dominated tank that prefers a nutrient rich tank. By no means does this mean I have no extra filtration (the rocks are not alone). I do water changes monthly plus am trying to get cheato to grow (Note: Damsels are even more evil than I thought) and run carbon.
Though I run skimmerless I would never advocate purposely going against them as they really do nothing bad for a tank in a negative sense and a lot of good on the positive sense.
If you can.. I HIGHLY recommend getting a decent sized sump and just run a semi-decent sized cheato box. One of the most memorable tanks I remember was a 210G mixed reef only using a chaeto box (Owner was lazy and was less concerned...). It was facinating how effective the chaeto box was.. but in all honesty it made have been a fluke of nature.. but very cool!
Though I run skimmerless I would never advocate purposely going against them as they really do nothing bad for a tank in a negative sense and a lot of good on the positive sense.
If you can.. I HIGHLY recommend getting a decent sized sump and just run a semi-decent sized cheato box. One of the most memorable tanks I remember was a 210G mixed reef only using a chaeto box (Owner was lazy and was less concerned...). It was facinating how effective the chaeto box was.. but in all honesty it made have been a fluke of nature.. but very cool!
Rouselb
New member
Is there a reason for not running a skimmer? Sure you can have a tank without a skimmer, just like you can go without water changes for long periods of time. But why? Why not just buy a skimmer and do regular water changes? There are many studies that show how water changes help to keep nitrates down. Dont get me wrong, if your doing it just for the knowledge great, but i dont understand why anyone in this super expen(skim and WC).
TWallace
New member
Noise and electricity savings are 2 reasons not to run one. If it's not doing anything for your tank and it's making noise and costing you more, why run it?
Personally I don't use a skimmer, carbon, a chiller, UV or a calcium reactor and my tank is predominantly SPS and looking great with zero nitrates.
My local reef club had a skimmer mod meeting last week and I got my skimmer mesh modded and bored out the venturi to accommodate more air. After testing it, it doesn't seem to be any more amazing than it was before. The skimmer is a Euro Reef RS 100, which allegedly is a pretty good skimmer. I have run the skimmer for the past week to see what the mods do, but I'm thinking I'll turn it back off tonight. It's also considerably louder now with the larger venturi. I could build a muffler for that, but the pump itself is also noisy.
I don't think you need a study to prove that water changes reduce nitrates. It's pretty obvious that replacing high nitrate water with zero nitrate water will have the net effect of lowering nitrates without doing a study.
My system runs at zero nitrates without a skimmer and with infrequent water changes, though. So I don't see the benefit of a skimmer in my system other than to boost oxygenation. Seems like an airstone is a more efficient way to accomplish that, though.
mrpenguin
New member
I find it hard to believe anybody can run a tank with SPS and them being healthy and growing ..... I had a problem with my tiny Berlin skimmer and could see within days how it affected my SPS corals.....
After good lights I think a Skimmer is the most important thing when it comes to SPS corals.... if you have softies and only fish I dont think its that important to have a skimmer.
After good lights I think a Skimmer is the most important thing when it comes to SPS corals.... if you have softies and only fish I dont think its that important to have a skimmer.
TellyFish
New member
I think we can all agree that running a skimmer provides a buffer with water quality. Without one, you may need more water changes or another export mechanism like macro algae harvesting to keep your nutrients in check. Life will continue in some pretty crappy water. But why? If you are not exporting nutrients, they will build up over time. The bacteria in your live rock does not have an infinite capacity to convert impurities.
I understand the fear of plumbing. At the same time, when I had a tank with no sump, all I wanted was a sump. If you are looking for a clean tank, I think it would be more difficult to work out sumpless. The heater has to go in the tank at least. I think if you plan your plumbing well, it can look beautiful! Just my $.02
I understand the fear of plumbing. At the same time, when I had a tank with no sump, all I wanted was a sump. If you are looking for a clean tank, I think it would be more difficult to work out sumpless. The heater has to go in the tank at least. I think if you plan your plumbing well, it can look beautiful! Just my $.02
well..it doesn't have anything to do with saving money. I make more than enough.
I just liked the approch and being a seasoned reefer.. I knew what steps to take.
Also, I like having all of the pods and orgasnisms in abundance in my tank. It is also packed with a motherload of marco algaes, for nutrient export. There are other reasons as well..tons of them. But, I am one, like Aquabucket and few others. We know, what we are doing when it comes to going skimmerless.
But, at the same time..going skimmerless. you have got to know what your doing..otherwise you'll kill everything.
I just liked the approch and being a seasoned reefer.. I knew what steps to take.
Also, I like having all of the pods and orgasnisms in abundance in my tank. It is also packed with a motherload of marco algaes, for nutrient export. There are other reasons as well..tons of them. But, I am one, like Aquabucket and few others. We know, what we are doing when it comes to going skimmerless.
But, at the same time..going skimmerless. you have got to know what your doing..otherwise you'll kill everything.
