Mclaren880
New member
Hi everyone, sorry for what is a long winded post. Anyone who reads this all and can offer some insight will be GREATLY appreciated.
I started with African cichlids about 2 years ago. We had a 75g tank, and I eventually got another 125 gallon (6'). I now have both running with different Africans, but I'm reading a Bob Fenner book and he has me sold on Saltwater (aside from getting more tanks and breeding, I've sort of reached the limit on what you can do with Africans). Adding a 3rd tank is not an option. My options are to turn either the 75g or 125g into saltwater, or potentially sell one off (i'd likely do this with the 75g, not the 125g as I just bought it this past fall) and go with like a 30-40 gallon setup in its place (Amazon has 29g biocubes for $255 with shipping and all the equipment you need, and other people sell used all inclusives on CL in this range). The 75g is in the living room, and the 125g in a backroom, so doing the 75g now and moving everything to the 125g when we move in a couple years and it can get into the living room is an option too). I've been doing my research and am a little overwhelmed with all the info and the prices as well (I knew this was an expensive hobby, but it has still taken me by surprise). So, I'm hoping I can run a few questions by everyone.
1.) I've learned from the freshwater tanks the importance of good research so you don't have to buy equipment twice when you realize what you initially bought sucks. I've also learned that trying to buy the "ideal setup" when you're new into the hobby is hard. It really helps to get into it for a while, see how things work, and then you can really make informed choices based on what you like. I bought an initial freshwater setup from a guy off CL and to make a long story short, the stand is the only thing i'm still using from it. I just didn't know what i needed/wanted back then. I'm talking with a guy at LifeReef (I live near the them so it seemed like it made sense to contact them), and he's trying to sell me on a Berlin style sump with venturi protein skimmer setup. For the combo (includes pump, hoses, clamps, fittings) it's $1000 for the 75g and $1200 for the 125g. He keeps saying his are extremely low maintenance, very few adjustments beyond the initial setup. So, my question... Are most protein skimmers really that obnoxious? I'm not really into the idea of constantly tinkering with it, so if his really reduces maintenance that much maybe i'd consider paying that. I've never read anything other than rave reviews about his stuff. It's not the newest technology, but people seem to feel it runs without problems and the owner responds to questions usually within hours, even years after the purchase. But I do wonder if it will really make things that much easier.
2.) I like the idea of a refugium, but I also think that with just getting into the hobby I'm going to have so much to mess with/do/learn at first that I might not even utilize it for a while. He has an add on refugium for $300 that i can order and hook up at a later date. (his styles haven't changed much in 20+ years, so i'm not worried about compatibility issues). Are they really that necessary? I do hope to add a mandarin at some point, but with a tank that large I hear i likely won't have to supplement his feeding.
3.) Even if i skip the refugium, sumps also can get really pricey (as i'm sure you all know). Is there a huge difference in them? Or would i be alright picking one up for $100-$150 used off of craigslist. I'm not all that handy of a person, and i'd probably rather buy one than save $100 and make it myself and risk screwing it up anyway. Spending less upfront, and then a year or 2 later getting one that that really fits my needs (once i know my needs and preferences are) sounds like a nice idea.
It seems like with going new on all the equipment I could hit $2000 pretty easily, especially when you get live rock and sand into the mix. An Auto top off unit is another $200 and that's assuming I use a 5 gallon bucket or something like that for the reservoir. I might even need an RODI unit if i'm getting a system this large. If I went used, however, i could cut that price substantially. My plan was to have about $800 saved up by the MACNA convention in Denver this summer (I live in the area) and take advantage of some deals at the vendor tables. I'm realizing that if I go new on everything, this is likely insufficient. I also saw a Colorado Sunburst anemone this weekend and fell in love. While I wouldn't add this right away, I would like to within the first year or so and that means another probably $400 in lights for the 75g or $600 in lights for the 125g (We do not have AC, and Colorado summers can get brutally hot so the biggest problem I face in our house is heat and i'm pretty set on LEDs). I have a descent freshwater light I could use until corals/anemones get added, so this wouldn't have to happen right away. I can get my fish fund amount bumped up a bit, say $1200 by August, but $2000 is a lot. I know fish aren't cheap, either, but I hear you add them much slower than freshwater. I can budget $100 a month on fish for the first 6-8 months to stock the tank.
So, do you guys think i can reliably get a good used setup for cheaper? If so, do you have any tips as to what i should be looking for? Or is new the way to go? If i buy used, over the course of time i have no issue upgrading to new, but I don't want to find out that it all sucks and i have to spend another grand within 2 months of getting it all set up because the protein skimmer has to be adjusted every 12 hours or the sump sucks for some reason.
Sometimes i also think i'm biting off more than i can chew with a 75g or 125g right off the bat. Maybe a 40g with an anemone, a couple clowns and maybe a few other little fish might be a better way to start. Then, when we move in a year or 2, the 125 might not be so intimidating and I can move the inhabitants over.
It's also worth mentioning that I have a known problem with trying to do too much too soon. Am I looking to do in 6 months what most people take several years to accomplish? Is all this stuff needed right away? Or could i get buy with a cheaper setup at first and upgrade slowly? I'm 30 and new to fish keeping, although I get impatient i do have lots of time.
Thanks a TON to any replies.
Richard
I started with African cichlids about 2 years ago. We had a 75g tank, and I eventually got another 125 gallon (6'). I now have both running with different Africans, but I'm reading a Bob Fenner book and he has me sold on Saltwater (aside from getting more tanks and breeding, I've sort of reached the limit on what you can do with Africans). Adding a 3rd tank is not an option. My options are to turn either the 75g or 125g into saltwater, or potentially sell one off (i'd likely do this with the 75g, not the 125g as I just bought it this past fall) and go with like a 30-40 gallon setup in its place (Amazon has 29g biocubes for $255 with shipping and all the equipment you need, and other people sell used all inclusives on CL in this range). The 75g is in the living room, and the 125g in a backroom, so doing the 75g now and moving everything to the 125g when we move in a couple years and it can get into the living room is an option too). I've been doing my research and am a little overwhelmed with all the info and the prices as well (I knew this was an expensive hobby, but it has still taken me by surprise). So, I'm hoping I can run a few questions by everyone.
1.) I've learned from the freshwater tanks the importance of good research so you don't have to buy equipment twice when you realize what you initially bought sucks. I've also learned that trying to buy the "ideal setup" when you're new into the hobby is hard. It really helps to get into it for a while, see how things work, and then you can really make informed choices based on what you like. I bought an initial freshwater setup from a guy off CL and to make a long story short, the stand is the only thing i'm still using from it. I just didn't know what i needed/wanted back then. I'm talking with a guy at LifeReef (I live near the them so it seemed like it made sense to contact them), and he's trying to sell me on a Berlin style sump with venturi protein skimmer setup. For the combo (includes pump, hoses, clamps, fittings) it's $1000 for the 75g and $1200 for the 125g. He keeps saying his are extremely low maintenance, very few adjustments beyond the initial setup. So, my question... Are most protein skimmers really that obnoxious? I'm not really into the idea of constantly tinkering with it, so if his really reduces maintenance that much maybe i'd consider paying that. I've never read anything other than rave reviews about his stuff. It's not the newest technology, but people seem to feel it runs without problems and the owner responds to questions usually within hours, even years after the purchase. But I do wonder if it will really make things that much easier.
2.) I like the idea of a refugium, but I also think that with just getting into the hobby I'm going to have so much to mess with/do/learn at first that I might not even utilize it for a while. He has an add on refugium for $300 that i can order and hook up at a later date. (his styles haven't changed much in 20+ years, so i'm not worried about compatibility issues). Are they really that necessary? I do hope to add a mandarin at some point, but with a tank that large I hear i likely won't have to supplement his feeding.
3.) Even if i skip the refugium, sumps also can get really pricey (as i'm sure you all know). Is there a huge difference in them? Or would i be alright picking one up for $100-$150 used off of craigslist. I'm not all that handy of a person, and i'd probably rather buy one than save $100 and make it myself and risk screwing it up anyway. Spending less upfront, and then a year or 2 later getting one that that really fits my needs (once i know my needs and preferences are) sounds like a nice idea.
It seems like with going new on all the equipment I could hit $2000 pretty easily, especially when you get live rock and sand into the mix. An Auto top off unit is another $200 and that's assuming I use a 5 gallon bucket or something like that for the reservoir. I might even need an RODI unit if i'm getting a system this large. If I went used, however, i could cut that price substantially. My plan was to have about $800 saved up by the MACNA convention in Denver this summer (I live in the area) and take advantage of some deals at the vendor tables. I'm realizing that if I go new on everything, this is likely insufficient. I also saw a Colorado Sunburst anemone this weekend and fell in love. While I wouldn't add this right away, I would like to within the first year or so and that means another probably $400 in lights for the 75g or $600 in lights for the 125g (We do not have AC, and Colorado summers can get brutally hot so the biggest problem I face in our house is heat and i'm pretty set on LEDs). I have a descent freshwater light I could use until corals/anemones get added, so this wouldn't have to happen right away. I can get my fish fund amount bumped up a bit, say $1200 by August, but $2000 is a lot. I know fish aren't cheap, either, but I hear you add them much slower than freshwater. I can budget $100 a month on fish for the first 6-8 months to stock the tank.
So, do you guys think i can reliably get a good used setup for cheaper? If so, do you have any tips as to what i should be looking for? Or is new the way to go? If i buy used, over the course of time i have no issue upgrading to new, but I don't want to find out that it all sucks and i have to spend another grand within 2 months of getting it all set up because the protein skimmer has to be adjusted every 12 hours or the sump sucks for some reason.
Sometimes i also think i'm biting off more than i can chew with a 75g or 125g right off the bat. Maybe a 40g with an anemone, a couple clowns and maybe a few other little fish might be a better way to start. Then, when we move in a year or 2, the 125 might not be so intimidating and I can move the inhabitants over.
It's also worth mentioning that I have a known problem with trying to do too much too soon. Am I looking to do in 6 months what most people take several years to accomplish? Is all this stuff needed right away? Or could i get buy with a cheaper setup at first and upgrade slowly? I'm 30 and new to fish keeping, although I get impatient i do have lots of time.
Thanks a TON to any replies.
Richard
Thanks again for all the help, perhaps i'll see you around one day.
