Ozone causing lateral line erosion?

[bigevill1]

I have had some of the same Tangs in my tank for over 7 years, feeding them the same food, the same number of times a day. I am using the same salt mix for the last 4 years. I have no current in my tank (tested and confirmed). Yet some of these tangs are coming down with lateral line erosion. The only change to the tank? The addition of a Ozone generator. I do not have an ORP controller running it, nor do I have an ORP test kit. I am running it just to help with water quality. I had it running kind of high, and have since dialed it down to 80 mg per hour on a 210 gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump and a 20 gallon frag tank. I am running it thru my skimmer. I have a large bag of carbon next to the outlet of the skimmer, and a large bag of carbon over the holes in the top of the skimmer to grab any ozone that might come out that way. Is the ozone causing my problems?

Thanks!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I've been testing this hypothesis, but stopping ozone for a few months has had no effect on HLLE in my hippo tang. If anything, it continues to get worse.

IMO, it is not nutrition in his case, but I do not know what it is.

 

[bigevill1]

Thanks Randy, I just dont get why else it would start up unless it is just due to the fish getting older. In my case it is a yellow tang and a purple tang that are showing it, while my three other tangs seem to be fine.

 

[Muddy35]

Theres a large study going on about this right now and its concentrated around activated carbon.. Just an FYI.. also seems like one of the finds shows that in most cases moving the fish to a different mature tank tends to cure HLLE.. Food for thought...
Sorry didnt really help here but just some info to share..

 

[bigevill1]

I have been running carbon in every tank I have ever had. If it were carbon I think it would have started before I added the ozone generator. I did switch to a new type of carbon though.........

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One of the thoughts with ozone is that it frees up metals that otherwise are bound by organics and are less toxic, making them more of a problem. That process is independent of the usual toxicity concerns with ozone, such as the highly oxidized species.

But that said, I've not seen it help in my case.

 

[JHemdal]

The outline of the carbon study mentioned above is here:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/hlle-and-activated-carbon-looking-link

By way of an update, although the study is still in progress, HLLE has already developed in one of the carbon test systems and not the control, so the hypothesis is being born out. We also decided to run a double test - both diet and carbon at the same time. Two types of carbon are being studied, with two food types in each case. The HLLE has (so far) only shown in the system with one type of carbon. In regards to the diet sub-study, the HLLE has shown up in the system of fish being fed a diet shown NOT to have been a contributing factor in HLLE ( from a paper by Ruth Francis-Floyd) and a diet that is suspected of being a contributor. This seems to indicate that carbon use, of the wrong type, can over-ride some /most dietary influence on this syndrome.

In regards to the mechanism that carbon uses to cause the HLLE, one hypothesis is as Randy describes above - carbon removing organics that in turn cause heavy metals to become more toxic. The problem is that our test systems were set up with all new equipment, with new ASW, no source of heavy metals can be identified other than what was in the salt or the source water. In addition, the one type of carbon has not yet casued HLLE, so I'm still leaning towards the carbon dust idea... (the carbon types are dusty GAC and rinsed pelleted carbon)


Jay

 

[bigevill1]

Reading that I am thinking it is from the new carbon I switched to. I bought a large bucket of the smaller, cheaper carbon from BRS and it is VERY dusty. Guess I wont be using it any more.

 

[billsreef]

In regards to the mechanism that carbon uses to cause the HLLE, one hypothesis is as Randy describes above - carbon removing organics that in turn cause heavy metals to become more toxic.

A couple of years ago I was working with a SW well with high concentration of dissolved metals, Fe and Mn primarily. In the course of coming up with treatment solutions I talked to a Marine Chemist who suggested that lots of carbon would not only pull out the organics, but the metals as well along with those organics.

 

[RegalAngel]

The outline of the carbon study mentioned above is here:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/hlle-and-activated-carbon-looking-link

By way of an update, although the study is still in progress, HLLE has already developed in one of the carbon test systems and not the control, so the hypothesis is being born out. We also decided to run a double test - both diet and carbon at the same time. Two types of carbon are being studied, with two food types in each case. The HLLE has (so far) only shown in the system with one type of carbon. In regards to the diet sub-study, the HLLE has shown up in the system of fish being fed a diet shown NOT to have been a contributing factor in HLLE ( from a paper by Ruth Francis-Floyd) and a diet that is suspected of being a contributor. This seems to indicate that carbon use, of the wrong type, can over-ride some /most dietary influence on this syndrome.

In regards to the mechanism that carbon uses to cause the HLLE, one hypothesis is as Randy describes above - carbon removing organics that in turn cause heavy metals to become more toxic. The problem is that our test systems were set up with all new equipment, with new ASW, no source of heavy metals can be identified other than what was in the salt or the source water. In addition, the one type of carbon has not yet casued HLLE, so I'm still leaning towards the carbon dust idea... (the carbon types are dusty GAC and rinsed pelleted carbon)


Jay

Perhaps, if the carbon dust is found to be the problem, you could include in the study the inclusion of a fine particulate matter filter on the carbon outlet to see if the HLLE is reduced or eliminated with the same carbon.
For those that use carbon that would be helpful.

 

[RegalAngel]

If it is in fact the carbon causing this then how do we explain an instance where no carbon is in use:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1635027

 

[bimmerzs]

Maybe this can be more attributed to current leakage....older tanks, older equipment that could be more prone to this. Some of the newer "non hi-end" equipment could also be leaking minute amounts of current into the tank as well resulting in HLLE, maybe even the ozonizer you added could be leaking current into the tank. Just a thought.

Cheers,

 

[bigevill1]

there is no contact between the ozone generator and the water. it just pushes ozone thru a plastic hose into the skimmer. I tested my tank for current and there is none.

I agree that other factors can lead to HLLE. However, in my case, I have a tank with the same fish I have had for years, eating the same diet, and they never had HLLE till I added the ozone generator. In adding the ozone generator I also began adding more carbon to the system to absorb the ozone exiting the skimmer. I began using a cheaper carbon because I was going thru it faster, and the carbon I was using was VERY dusty. I am not going to use it any more.