Paired Tank

[hmott]

Ok, I'm having a struggle trying to find fish to fill in a 120. I want to do several pairs of fish. However I'm having trouble finding info on fish that will pair. When I do find they can be paired it seems I can never find how to tell a male from a female. I know clownfish of course, but I honestly don't like them much. I love YWG but how to do you tell a male from a female? I know several of the wrasses can be sexed but I can't seem to find anywhere that sells both sexes! Man this is harder than I thought it would be.

What other fish can be paired, it doesnt' so much matter that they breed but that would be cool, and how do I tell the males from the females?

 

[NicoleC]

Re: Paired Tank

I love YWG but how to do you tell a male from a female?

You don't. Ignore any info you may read about "masculine" features of large jaws, etc. -- it's a very paternalistic projection, and IME 100% wrong. If anything the females appear more "masculine" from a human point of view.

I suspect they may be able to change sex like many gobies do, but in which direction or both is questionable. If you don't have the patience and spare tanks to embark on pairing trials, skip this one. Also be forewarned that YWG pairs are fairly aggressive toward other bottom-dwelling fish.

What other fish can be paired, it doesnt' so much matter that they breed but that would be cool, and how do I tell the males from the females?

Clown gobies change sexes in either direction -- virtually any two will form a pair. Anthias are very sexually dimorphic, but generally a poor choice for hobbiest tanks, as they are not very hardy. Many gobies change sex at will, and some (like E. oceanops) are so mild mannered that even if they aren't a pair they will peacefully coexist.

 

[hmott]

Thanks, I knew I didn't want the hastle of trying to get Anthias to feed. So it seems like Gobies is it. This is clearly not going my way. I had first hoped to do some schooling fish and some pairs of fish, but I can find really no schooling fish and now it seems like I can only find Gobies for pairing and not even the one I like most. Seems like just my luck.

Thanks Nicole I'm not so worried about other bottom dwellers they could have had the whole bottom 120 to themselves if they wanted. I only have a yellow tang at this point from my 55 upgrade.

 

[NicoleC]

In one of the club forums a couple of weeks ago, I wrote a long thing on what I would do if trying to pair them. (Versus what I did and got lucky with!) I'll see if I can find the thread.

 

[NicoleC]

Here ya go:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=790565

 

[Angel*Fish]

Re: Paired Tank

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6998754#post6998754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hmott
I know clownfish of course, but I honestly don't like them much.

OMG!!!! I hope the Nemo lovers don't find you out!

How about a pair of dwarf angels? Some of them show sexual dichromatism.

 

[hmott]

LOL Angel... that would be great if I could find a place that sells them sexed, I can't find any.

I read over some of the ywg stuff and I'm not looking to go through that amount of work for a pair at this point. But I do applaud the work some of you guys go through. My wife has attempted to raise our seahorse fry with no luck, man thats a full time job.

Anyway anyone have any nice pairs besides gobies and clowns? I'll probably do some gobies as one pair just not ywg.

 

[hmott]

Ok.. after doing more reading I found this list in one of the sticky posts of fish that breed in sw tanks.

Clownfish
cardinal fish (other apogons-pyjams, orbic, red strip, blue eyed, etc)
banggai cardinal fish
Watchman gobies
Mandrains
Damsels/chromis

Not counting the clowns that I understand how they pair. Can anyone break down how to get a male/female of the others? Gobies just a big and a small like the clowns, is that any watchman or any gobie? How about the others? I thought banner fish would breed also, is that not the case?

 

[Angel*Fish]

hmott,
You don't have to find them paired at the LFS. And generally speaking -- if you can locate a dwarf angel that is tiny an inch from nose to tip of tail, it is a juvenile & will easily pair with a larger one. You can do this in a temporary container (like rubbermaid) to make sure before you add them to your main tank.

 

[hmott]

Angel now thats the kind of info I need!

So with pigmy angles are like clowns, get a big one and a little one let them pair up.

How about these:
Pseudochromis Fridmanii
firefish

and the ones above.

 

[jnowell]

I had a fairly easy time paring some Royal Grammas. I hear this is not always the case, but I got a fine pair on my first try...ignore anything you read on dimorphism of this species also...like Nicole's experience, I found most of this info to be quite the opposite.

Jason

 

[hmott]

Ok then how do you pair them? I've never paired any fish, except seahorses and thats easy. So really I need a step by step, or atleast a link to some info. I'm finding info on how to pair and what fish pair Very hard to find except for clowns of course.

 

[jnowell]

I bought a small one, let him get used to the tank and kinda establish a little territory, then bought a larger one and added him. There was a week or two where the larger established his "dominance" by flairing up and running the little guy around a bit, but not too bad. They still haven't laid eggs, but the hang out together in peace now, and even share the same cave most of the time. They may have laid nests, but I haven't seen much of that "nest protecting behavior" that I expect, so I haven't really looked.

 

[David M]

Pairs and groups are the best approach to a stunning display tank IMHO. Whenever I see a tank that's a hodge-podge collection of unrelated species it really says a lot to me about the owner. Pairs & harems with a specific regional theme are even better. You will need a seperate tank to do this, you want to be able to quickly remove any fish that doesn't make the cut. Also you should be willing to take a loss on any fish you need to return to the store unless you have a sympathetic lfs and tell them in advance what you are doing. With luck they will let you trade fish until you get what you want. The big/ small thing works pretty darned well with dwarf angels, gramma's, even pseudochromis. Look at the basslets like tobacco fish or harlequins, any two will do They are simultaneous hermaphrodites, just toss two together. Each fish funtions as both male and female during spawning, cool. A harem group of dwarf angels is cool too, get 2-3 small ones (under 1" if you can) and one twice as big, should work out fine. Since in this case a "pair" does not necessarily have to be male/ female, there might be some butterflies to consider. Just beware that many/ most do not typically do well in home aquaria and be sure you are up to the task. Look at the Caribbean Reef butterfly, about as bulletproof as they get and very social. If you wanna blow big bucks get two semilarvatus and call it a day. Then build the whole tank around a Red Sea theme Not sure a 120 is large enough for them though, but you get the idea.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6999465#post6999465 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hmott


So with pigmy angles are like clowns, get a big one and a little one let them pair up.

Thanks! But the little one must be ~less than or equal to an inch unless you otherwise sex them - it's not a matter of relative size.

 

[NicoleC]

I agree with David about the beauty of paired/grouped fish in aquaria. I forgot about the basslets -- they are an excellent choice and there are some very striking ones and most are amazingly hardy fish. Black caps are my favorite, but they need a very peaceful, quiet tank, preferrably with subdued lighting.

Chalk bass are a close second, but they are MEAN, not too bright, and apparently not as tough as they act. My docile, sweet, never-aggressive clowns finally killed both my basslets when they wouldn't keep their noses out of their eggs. I would suggest keeping chalk bass in a dedicated tank.

I guess the first question should have been, what kind of tank are you planning on keeping?

 

[fkdenton]

Inland Aquatics sometimes sell pairs of angels and other fish.

www.inlandaquatics.com

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7000336#post7000336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NicoleC
I agree with David about the beauty of paired/grouped fish in aquaria. I forgot about the basslets -- they are an excellent choice and there are some very striking ones and most are amazingly hardy fish. Black caps are my favorite, but they need a very peaceful, quiet tank, preferrably with subdued lighting.

Very true- I have one & it is bullied a bit by a bicolor anthias of all things. I'm working on removing this anthias from my tank, btw. But everyone warned me that the blackcap would be a bully & that has not been true at all. While the bicolor was sick for a while, I got to see what a truely wonderful fish this is - would have obtained a pair if I had researched more first.

PS If your wondering about the sick bicolor - I think he had a concussion from ramming into his reflection :hmm6:

 

[hmott]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7000336#post7000336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NicoleC

I guess the first question should have been, what kind of tank are you planning on keeping?

I guess I should have started with that. I'm trying to develop a group/paired tank. Basically just as many of you have said, I think tanks look better when there are pairs/groups of fish rather than just a random selection of fish. So here is what I want: I do want to keep corals, all my softies will be moved from my 55 and I'd like to begin keeping some easy sps some months down the line. I have a yellow tang I would like to keep but that is not a requirement. I like mid-water colorful fish best. I'd prefer to have noone more agressive than my tang, but thats not set in stone. I want fish I don't have to give tons of special attention, my wifes seahorses are way to "needy" for me. I would prefer a few school of fish or few larger harems. I would rather have a few nice size groups of fish than a few single large fish.

I'm not willing at this point to go "regional". I'd rather stick to a theme of pairs/groups/harems at this point.

What I find most surprising is for all the people that like "groups" of fish not much info is out there, that I can find. Seems like everyone sticks to blue/greens and they kill each other off and don't really school(at least in my 55 they did). This time around I want to take my time and do everything correctly.

Thanks for the help guys, I've been having very little luck in my searches. But at this point I only have the tank, stand is almost done and LOTs more to do so I have lots of research time.

 

[NicoleC]

Well, the problem with grouping/pairing fish in a typical mish-mash style aquarium is that one does not lend itself to the other. (Except clowns, which seem fine with just about anything you throw at them.) People who pair fish tend to be setting up a biotope tank or a breeding setup, or at least are limiting their concept to a niche of a reef, even if they are ignoring geographic origin. (Reef flat, crest, rocky reef, lagoon, etc.)

The best thing I ever did for my reef was take out half the species. Everything has been so much healthier and growing better since then, I'm pondering what else to take out.

You might look at pink skunks to see if you like those, they don't look like your typical clown. If you want "sticks," please be aware that clown gobies strip the flesh off them to make a nesting site, and it will inevitably be the fancy, primo specimen you spent too much money on.