Pairing Clownfish

At least for A. bicinctus this is not the case.

"Social Control of Sex: Field Experiments with the Anemonefish Amphiprion bicinctus
Abstract:
From the underwater station Neritica, situated in 11 m depth off the shore of the Heinz-Steinitz-Marine-Laboratory in Eilat, Israel, experiments were carried out to investigate the influence of food restriction, social status, body size and relative frequency of aggressive interactions on protandric sex change in the anemonefish A. bicinctus. Some 47 fish were tagged and observed in different conditions. Caged conditions retard, sometimes even prevent sex change in dominant males; it is suggested that this is consequent upon the ensuing food restriction, also that this mechanism operates to prevent sex change in subdominants in freeliving conditions, through the aggressive restraint of dominant males. No solitary males, caged or free, complete a sex change. Complete functional sex change occurs only in well-fed aggressively dominant males at least 100 mm in body length in the presence of a social partner. The study shows that social stimuli are vital for the initiation of sex change in these males."


Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0310.1983.tb01327.x/abstract

So a single or too small clownfish can not become (fully) female.
While this study used exclusively A. bicinctus it can be assumed that this applies to all Amphiprion and likely also to Premnas.

Thanks for the Info and Reply! Very Interesting read.:thumbsup:

Bit Late though as I ordered the fish, before reading this post. But as I said I'm ready with more tanks should it not work out.

This tank has been a work in progress for about a year.

I Have two 250watt MH, Kessil a150 deep ocean blue LED, 1/4 HP Chiller, Reef Octopus Classic 150NIT 6", Carbon/GFO Reactor, 40gal sump, 120gal tank,80lbs live rock, half the tank has 60lbs Live sand(gives4"depth)

The tank only has some zoes, two small anemones,6-7 hermits,2 turbos, 30 zombie snails,10bumble bee snails, 5 adult cerith snails, 300+ baby snails lol, yellow clown goby and the two clowns stated above(best of buds btw go figure)

The Tank Absolutely Crawls at Night with Activity, that keeps the Tank surprisingly Clean. Perfect water testing, though my Nitrates could be lower(getting 5-10ppm readings) working on a algae scrubber.

I Truly believe it will not be "All Out War" maybe more of a cold war ._. But we shall see. Thanks for your concern and words though. I'l keep you posted:hmm1:
 
I have a and white tank raised ocellaris that I bought almost 1 month ago. It was in QT tank for 1 week and DT for about 2 weeks. It is about 1 inch size.

I bought another clown yesterday 1.5 inch and it is a black and white snowflake.

Will they get along? The new clown is in isolation box right now
 
I have had an ocellaris clown (orange), that has been in my tank with 3 other fish (goby, cardinal and chromis...all introduced at the same time) for about 3 months. I added a black/white ocellaris to the tank about 2 weeks ago. The original is a lot bigger and chased the other around and snipped at it quite a bit and it has become a jumper (ending up in the sump for days several times).

I just recently put it back in the tank and the bigger one is not chasing as much and they are kinda "hanging out" off and on.

I do know they do the "seizure dance" and that is supposed to be showing submissive behavior, however...it's the bigger clown that I've had for awhile that is doing the shaking. I thought it was the other (or smaller new fish) that would be showing submission. I'm confused. :strange: I have only seen the smaller one shake back once so far. Shouldn't this be the other way around?

What's going on here?
 
Jhardman,

Thanks so much for the reply. I'll cut and paste it off to the list.



On a VERY happy note, I just got an email notifying me that the bonded pair of tank raised, adult Clarkii clowns I ordered from ORA are in Pittsburgh, where I'll pick them up this weekend. They have spawned twice already at ORA, so I'm really stoked! It's only an 8 hour drive from my place to Pittsburgh and back, so they'll only have a 4 hour "ride" to get to their new home.

Tagamet



How did you arrange that?? I know this is old post....


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Maroon specific behavior and pairing

Maroon specific behavior and pairing

Ok I bought my lightening maroon pair at my LFS (already paired) and one was larger than the other. Introduced them to the tank at the same time as they were already paired. At the time, we had a BTA that had found itself comfy right next to the pump on the back glass. At first the smaller clown made itself right at home in the anemone and would not leave it (all day and night) that lasted for about 2 weeks or so. The larger clown would try and attack the smaller one while in the anemone and it was like he used the anemone as a shield at times.

Then the anemone decided to move... As soon as he moved or basically fell off the back glass we reattached him to the rock. The clowns didn't go near him for almost 2-3 weeks. Since we have introduced another BTA on the other side of the tank hoping they both would have a friend to host. Neither noticed the new BTA and now the female will snuggle in both BTA going from one to the other while the smaller clown floats over in the corner. And it's the opposite side of the tank either at the very bottom at the sand or the very top of the tank where he has stayed for almost a week now. I feel bad for him because I noticed if he tries to go anywhere else the female comes from behind the rock and attacks him. He started looking lighter in color and just fatigued. I finally had to feed him with a dropper just to make sure he was eating since she also attacks if he tries to swim to food.

My ultimate questions... Is this normal even after being paired for 2 months in 20g tank?

Should I put the little guy in a box/ container for a few weeks so he can get his strength back?

If I do quarantine him, could I put one of the BTA in the box with him to acclimate him better or would this stress out the BTA?

TIA for any advice!
 
The female maroon is claiming territory. I would use egg crate and section a corner of the tank so that the male can be inside it.

As long as the female can see the male and keep him in his place. He should still submit by shaking when she comes. You want to keep the male from getting too stressed out.

After a few weeks, let the male out and keep an eye on things. If he doesn't submit and get accepted by her, put him back in. Eventually, they should pair again. But know that it could take weeks to months to pair again. Be patient and slow about it.

BTW, he won't get his anemone. She will let him go in, but at times he will still be pushed to the corner as they all belong to him.


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Here is a pic of the egg crate.

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I was lucky with mine, the first clown was all by itself with the anemone for about 6 months. Two weeks ago I added a juvenile clown and within 2 hours they were both swimming in the nem.
 

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One of the most common questions on RC is ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œhow do I pair clownfishââ"šÂ¬Ã‚. Pairing clownfish can be a troublesome thing to do or very easy to do. Here are a few things that might help you in this task.

1) You need to understand clownfish sex change and how that effects pairing and interaction. Please refer to http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215088 page for sexing FAQ. For further information.

a. Briefly, clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. They are hatched as sexually immature fish. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature (12-24 months) they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. This is a one way trip, sexless to male never to be sexless again and male to female never to be male again.

b. A clownfish kept by its self will become a female in a short period of time if it is physically mature, in as little as a month.

2) Two female clowns will fight. The tell tale sign that you have two females is fighting ending in the two locking their mouths together.

Clownfish pairing techniques:
There are a couple of proven techniques to pair same species of clownfish. Mixing species of clownfish should be avoided and has very limited long term (multi-year) success (only one case that I know of and could be considered unsuccessful as at least one clownfish was killed by another clownfish in the tank).

Grow out technique:
With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.

Notes: Since the fish are going to fight and/or chase each other to establish who is the dominate fish and who is the submissive fish, it will often speed the pairing process and reduce fighting and potential damage to the fish by getting one of the two juveniles larger than the other.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:
With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing tank. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible sex compatibility problems, e.g. two females.

Example: Existing 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A Ã"šÃ‚¾Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚ to 1 Ã"šÃ‚½Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚ juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the femaleââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish thru the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.

Submissive behavior in clownfish:
As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.

Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like thisââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.

In Premnas species there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.

Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:
There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.

The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.

References; Clownfishes by Joyce Wilkerson, Anemonefishes by Dr. Gerald Allen, Conditioning spawning and rearing of fish with emphasis on marine clownfish by Dr. Frank Hoff.
Thanks for the info!

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Here is a pic of the egg crate.

I"m not sure why the image only shows up in Tapatalk but not on a browser. Here it is again. BTW, I heard that if the female maroon does not take to the male, you can reverse them and lock up the female for a week. Then reintroduce.

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Is it possible to pair a new clown(osci.) to an established over 1 year clown that is with an anemone?
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