Pairing My Two P. diacanthus

Looking good.

I have the added problem of an established resident regal defending its territory. Mine scuffled and the resident has a split fin.

Would you agree with my sexing of the two? Based on gill spur?
 
Looking good.
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Thanks :)


I have the added problem of an established resident regal defending its territory.
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Yes, and it was the same in my case. The resident female had been in the QT tank for almost 2 months when I added the smaller fish. Also, the egg-crate will surely help two-fold. It will get the resident out of the area, forcing it to give up it's 'current territory' and will allow the new resident to establish a territory of it's own.

You do still have a relative advantage in your situation however. The male would likely be very dominating in different circumstances, especially being the larger of the two fish. Because he is the newer addition however, he may be a little more timid. If the roles were reversed, and the larger male was the established fish, pairing them may be harder to do.


In similar spirit, I would think that introducing the smaller fish first would be best. Although, I'm not sure if they would go through another bickering stage when I introduced the female at a later time. What do you think?

I wouldn't worry about the split fin, should heal in a week or two, just keep an eye out for bacteria or infection.

Would you agree with my sexing of the two? Based on gill spur?
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I would definitely agree, based on literature and experience. I have seen very long gill spines (indicating male) on many Regals under 4 inches. I'm sure there are exceptions, but the percent? I don't know. Judging by your videos, I would definitely consider the current resident a female, and the new introduction is male. Still can't get over those crazy stripes! :)
 
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I love the stripes. I've been waiting for this fish a long time.

Initially I thought the new fish was an inch bigger but now they are in the same tank the size difference isn't that marked. I'm encouraged by the non aggressive posturing through the eggcrate. A marked improvement in only a few hrs.

Ideally I would have approached this in the same way you did. I think an adult juvenile mix is the optimal start, as long as the juvenile can be protected initially. I believe from research p.diacanthus is a social hermaphrodite with the dominant fish becoming male. So im wondering how the new fish despite being only marginally larger than the established fish has much larger gill spurs. It must be down to the environmental situation it was collected from. Importantly the resident fish, which is very healthy and thriving for more than 12mths appears to have remained female. Obviously missing social ques for sex change..

I love it when researched theory matches real observation..
 
Despite all the positive signs the resident fish just hopped over the eggcrate. They started circling and flashing. Then the female jumped back over..... Gap now plugged.
 
Inklinkerman said:
No let up in aggression... I don't think this is going to work.
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Ink,

I wish there were some others that have done this that would chime in.

Until then, looks like it's just you and me here. First, don't get discouraged just yet, it's only been a day! :) . Take a deep breath, walk away from the tank, and let the angels settle in. The egg-crate is ugly, but it isn't going to kill anyone.

Are either fish showing any signs of distress? If the Regals are feeding, then there is nothing to worry about. You waited a year for your new fish, what's another few days or even a week or two?

Also, don't compare my "apparent" success with what you are doing; The circumstances are not the same. I had the luxury of a separate, dimly lit tank that I keep the fish in alone, and the significant difference in size may have made the process a little easier. Also, don't be fooled into believing that I have "paired" my diacanthus's. They just happen to be getting along right now in the tank.....whether or not they actually pair will have a lot to do with their care and nature (not to mention the fact that I'm not absolutely sure the smaller fish is even a male!)

Something you may want to do before you give the fish a little 'space' is to re-arrange the rock-work. Again, this is not fun, but in light of everything you have waited for and the prospect of having these beautiful fish happy together, it's not a big deal. This may help to "reset" their "territory", and could possibly lead to less aggression when you remove the egg-crate for round 2.

I have read in two separate threads from people who have successfully paired Regals.

1. One of the people recommended keeping the fish separated in the same tank for over a month, before introduction. (Think this may have been Copps, who has several Regals together)

2. The other had to try four times with the same two fish before they would get along. The 1st time he said the new fish got beaten so badly he thought it was going to die. The 2nd and 3rd times there was still a great deal of aggression. The 4th time he put them together, they got along like magic....with no evident explanation of why.

Chin up, and be patient. Keep me (us?) posted.
 
Don't worry Im far from disheartened. The resident fish has escaped the eggcrate twice, both times I was there and watching. Eggcrate is now sturdy.

The resident (smaller regal) seems to be getting the worst of it but they were only together for a few seconds. I'm expecting the eggcrate there for a minimum of one week, probably longer. The resident fish does seem somewhat off food, but nothing serious. He has about two feet of LR to go at with just a moorish idol to share with. I am more worried about the tang and imperator getting cramped and crabbie with each other with the tank segregation.

I will be perservering with this for a long time yet, as long as both fish seem happy.

As for your smaller fish I was under the impression the dominant fish becomes male and submissive female. I would have thought your fish was too small to undergo the transition. Not sure on that though....
 
OK, great to hear! I thought I caught a bit disappointment in your last post, I'm glad I was wrong :) I'm also glad to hear you got the egg-crate secured.

You may be right about the smaller fish's transition and not yet displaying any difinitive characteristics of male or female. Although I have, without question, observed very long gill spines of Regals just a bit larger than the one I have. What does this mean? Nothing really I suppose, but I must admit that I have not seen any documents regarding a change of sex of the dominant specimen in a social setting. I have however read that this is some people's "theory". Do you have any further reading on the subject that I you could point me to?

Not arguing by any means, but my curiosity has been sparked, and when it comes to my fish and corals, I love research :) I wish I could say the same thing about my engineering studies !
 
I do have a reference for you, will post it up later.

I've used gill spur length as an indicator as to the sex, but I'm not sure it's totally conclusive. But it's the best we have to go off. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 
Hey Ink, did you remove the eggcrate? I'm really not sure about the fighting. I think as long as it's not anymore than fins getting frayed, and they are still eating it's OK.
 
Your right ink, and what I said was much easier than doing it. When I first placed the smaller Regal in the QT, I had not yet installed the egg-crate. I was curious and excited to see how they would react. The larger one displayed it's dorsal and anal fins, and opened it's mouth. The next thing I know the female was chasing the new male with a vengeance. After about 10 seconds i threw in the egg crate.

Are the angels only together for a short period of time? If so, does one of the fish retreat, or do you have to separate them? Are they fighting 100% of the time, or only in short bouts? It has to be unbearably hard to watch. Are both still feeding?

Trying to thing of how I might try to do it myself.....If I had placed the angels together and the aggression had been too much I probably would have separated the fish, and waited an extra few days before introducing them again. Say 3 days and try, and if that doesn't work, separate and try a full week, then introduce. If that doesn't work, separate and wait a week and half, etc.

Also, have you considered moving the rock around a bit?
 
they seem quite evenly matched, they circle and thrash at each other, not tried it for more than a min as scared of harm to one or both
 
thanks for that.

Had them together for a good 20 mins today. less aggression but still very much there. The resident fish is the chaser and the new fish is very submissive despite having the run of the tank for a week. he only fights if cornered. no damage to either fish, both eating fine.


how are yours doing?
 
Ink,

This is great to hear, slow and steady. Keep it up and keep us posted on your progress. As long as their eating, then there shouldn't be to much to be concerned about.

My two Regals are doing good, and while there is no "real" aggression, the larger female is always making sure the little guy knows who is 'boss'. They will be moved to the display on Tuesday.
 
Mixed them again no aggression as the new fish hid in a tight spot inthe rocks.
Progress at least in that there is a definate dominant fish
 
Still the same today, the fish can now be together for an extended period, but only because the new fish hides in a tight rock crevice. as soon as they are separated again it comes out again. Obviously not a long term solution but a move in the right direction. The new fish now retreats and never stands to fight. I wonder if this interaction will precipitate some sexual changes in the dominant fish?
 
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