Pale, Brown and Sad - what's my gameplan?

[timdanger]

first, :uzi:

with that venting out of the way, my SPS are pale, brown and sad, and I don't know how to approach it. Here is a synopsis of the situation:

Tank/Equipment.
-39g 20x20x24" Cadlights Pro display (~40g total system water volume with sump), established in September 2009.
-12g sump, lit by 23w 6500k bulb - DSB with chaeto in refugium
-60lb live rock, 40lb live sand (including sump DSB).
-Bubble-Magus NAC3 skimmer, always on.
-150w Radium 20k HQI + 2x24w ATI Blue Plus T5HO.
-Vortech mp10 (100% reef crest), Tunze 6025, Tunze 1073.020 return pump
-BRS Dual Media Reactor, running BRS granular GFO and seachem matrix carbon (switching to Rox 0.8 when i next switch it out).
-JBJ ATO, using RODI water from LFS
-salt water is pre-mixed D-D h2ocean from LFS

Stocking.
Fish: ocellaris clown, royal gramma, bluespot jawfish, mccosker's flasher wrasse, all in good health.
CUC: 3x nassarius, 4x nerite, 4x red-legged hermits, ~4x blue-legged hermits, 1x trochus, 2x turbo, 1x peppermint shrimp, 1x skunk cleaner shrimp, 1x emerald crab (but i haven't seen him in a long while)
Coral:
1) ORA bali green slimer colony (mostly brown, but greener where it's basing out -- base is about 9" deep, top is about 3" deep)
2) ATL Pink Flamingo Acropora Selago frag (pale pink, but becoming more vibrant -- about 4" deep)
3) Orange Montipora Digitata colony (white "skin" but nice/full orange polyps -- base is 6" deep, top is 2" deep)
4) Purple Montipora Digitata colony (completely brown -- base is 6" deep, top is 4" deep, and I have a smaller frag of it that is 2" deep)
5) ATL Idaho Grape Montipora Undata frag (completely brown -- base is 9" deep)
6) Blue-polyped Green Montipora Capricornis/Foliosa(?) frag (pale/cream -- base is 10" deep
7) Blue Tort frag (pale/cream -- just moved this up from lower light to about 4" deep)
8) ATL Ocean Blue Papillare frag (blue, but pale/browned a bit -- about 9" deep)
9) Pink Millepora frag (pink/brown -- about 10" deep
10) ATL Blueberry-tipped Raspberry Prostrata frag (pale/cream -- currently about 9" deep, but I've been moving it around a lot)
11) unknown staghorn acropora frag (brown, some green -- about 10" deep)
12) Pink/Orange Montipora Capricornis frag (good coloration -- about 12" deep)
13) neon purple/green frogspawn colony (paler than when i got it, but it's doing ok -- probably about 14" deep)
14) neon green star polyp colony (neon green, about 16" deep)

Feeding.
5x week 1 cube of PEMysis, some Frozen Cyclopeeze
2x/week 2tsp Roti-Feast, 5ml Aqua Vitro Fuel (started dosing that over the last 3 weeks)

Maintenance
10ml Alk, 10ml Ca daily Brightwell Reef Code A/B until I run out (at which point I have BRS 2-part to switch over to). ~20-25ml Mg (BRS 2-part) weekly.
~5g water change using D-D h2ocean salt biweekly (recently changed this from 5g weekly).
Photo period: Actinics 10am-10pm, Halide 12pm-8pm

Parameters.
Temperature: as high as 82.6F, but I've just added a second fan, which has brought the temperature down to 77.5-80F. This is not on a controller at this time.
Salinity: 1.024, per marine depot refractometer
Ca: 430ppm (Elos, checked weekly)
Alk: 8dkh (Elos, checked weekly)
Mg: ~1300ppm (not testing regularly, but using Elos)
Ammonia/Nitrites: 0 (API)
PO4: undetectable (never detected any since day 1) (Elos)
Nitrates: undetectable (never detected any since day 1) (API)
pH: 8.2, but I don't monitor this regularly.

The issues

1. algae blooms (no cyano). I have GHA, red turf, cotton candy in the display and in the sump. The biggest culprit is the sump, where cotton candy and dinoflagellates are PROLIFIC.
2. formerly very prolific coralline growth has stopped; almost all light-facing coralline is bleached out white/gray now.
3. and, most notably, the coloration of my coral (or, rather, the lack thereof). Almost everything in the tank is brown or very pale. I'd say that I'm satisfied with only 2 of my SPS (one pink/orange monti cap, and one pink selago). some of these corals came to me brown, some have lost color while in my possession. even the frogspawn is much paler than when i acquired it 2-3 months ago.

The potential causes/errors I have made

1. Temperature fluctuation. This is tough to deal with in the summer in Richmond without a temperature controller, but it is what it is right now.
2. Alkalinity swings. I had swings where the Alk would bob up and down between 6-8dkh until about 3 weeks ago because of irregular dosing schedule (now i'm locked in pretty well with daily dosing).
3. formerly low Mg levels (raised from 1000ppm about 3 months ago)
4. changed light bulbs about 6 weeks ago (went from 14k Prism bulb + generic dim "aquablue" actinic T5HO bulbs to brighter Radium 20k + ATI Blue Plus T5HO bulbs -- acclimated only by using reduced photoperiod for about 5 days, figuring I would have less par going to the 20k bulb). I don't know if my corals reacted badly to the change or not, because it's not like they were doing that great in the first place.
5. some deeper sand bed spots in my display tank -- sand tends to accumulate under the vortech and get thinned out in the middle of the tank due to jawfish construction. some places may get as much as 3" deep


The plan
This is where you come in. I've tried to take steps to help myself, but I don't really know what the problem is. At first I thought I had too many nutrients, despite never having measurable phosphates/nitrates, because I had pretty substantial algae growth. Before I added the media reactor about 6 weeks ago, I had very prolific chaeto growth, but since adding it, that chaeto growth has been vastly slowed. The dino/cotton candy growth in the sump is still pretty rampant, though. but, i'm also concerned that maybe i don't have enough nutrients, and i've therefore reduced water changes and started dosing the Aqua Vitro Fuel for amino acids/carbohydrates/vitamins. i have relatively low skimmate production.

I think that I'm doing the right things, but it's very frustrating to not know whether I'm making progress or doing the right thing, and I don't want to be doing the wrong thing for months only to realize that i should've been doing something else. So, continue on with what I'm doing? Or, am I not looking at this the right way?

Anyone have any suggestions? Please?

 

[Toadally]

First thing get those parameters stable and keep them stable. I would suggest a controller and using it with dosing pumps for you cal and alk. Changing the bulbs was a good thing also. Try cutting back on water changes a little. I know this sounds counter productive, but your nutrients are probably low in the water column. The algae have gobbled up the nutrients and that's why you are not detecting any with your test kits. Try to get your salinity up to 35ppm. And use a good refractometer for this. Are you implementing a good cleanup crew for the algae? I would also use them in the refugium. Try using Seachem Matrix in the GFO section of your reactor. This will add a place for the bacteria to grow and flourish. You may want to add some bacteria now and then and also a carbon source to feed them. This will help also. Other than these suggestions just keep doing what your doing.....it will get better my friend. hth's

 

[timdanger]

First thing get those parameters stable and keep them stable. I would suggest a controller and using it with dosing pumps for you cal and alk.

I've been thinking about a controller (for temp control), but I don't know if I can afford the dosing pumps at the same time. Having said that, I wonder if it might be more useful to get dosing pumps first, since i'm going on vacation at the end of july for a week (first long vacation since running this tank).

Try cutting back on water changes a little. I know this sounds counter productive, but your nutrients are probably low in the water column. The algae have gobbled up the nutrients and that's why you are not detecting any with your test kits.

This is where I get confused. Do I have excess nutrients, or am I nutrient-deficient? There is such proliferation of algae in the sump that I can't decide. I've already cut back on water changes from 5g weekly to 5g biweekly. do you think i should cut back even more than that?

Are you implementing a good cleanup crew for the algae? I would also use them in the refugium.

i listed my CUC -- it's fairly diverse, but the herbivores don't do much on most algae other than what accumulates on the glass. the turbos are the best, but that's not saying much. hermits are ok, but i think they prefer to eat detritus/excess food.

i have not been using CUC in the refugium, but I think it's time to start, just to try and get it under control. it's a mess in there, and as much as I think microalgae in the fuge is good for nutrient uptake, i'm no longer thinking that this is desirable.

Try using Seachem Matrix in the GFO section of your reactor. This will add a place for the bacteria to grow and flourish.

you mean remove the GFO and put carbon there instead (i would be using Rox 0.8, not seachem matrix -- still the same suggestion, i presume?)

what bacteria are you referring to? I have a lot of live rock both in the display and sump, and a lot of live sand as well -- what kind of bacteria do you think i'm missing?

You may want to add some bacteria now and then and also a carbon source to feed them. This will help also.

This is again confusing -- I was thinking about dosing carbon for awhile, but then I decided that my problem was low nutrient, not high nutrient. my understanding was that dosing carbon removed excess nutrients, which seems to be the opposite of what i should be doing if my water is nutrient deficient?

 

[Toadally]

I've been thinking about a controller (for temp control), but I don't know if I can afford the dosing pumps at the same time. Having said that, I wonder if it might be more useful to get dosing pumps first, since i'm going on vacation at the end of july for a week (first long vacation since running this tank).




This is where I get confused. Do I have excess nutrients, or am I nutrient-deficient? There is such proliferation of algae in the sump that I can't decide. I've already cut back on water changes from 5g weekly to 5g biweekly. do you think i should cut back even more than that?




i listed my CUC -- it's fairly diverse, but the herbivores don't do much on most algae other than what accumulates on the glass. the turbos are the best, but that's not saying much. hermits are ok, but i think they prefer to eat detritus/excess food.

i have not been using CUC in the refugium, but I think it's time to start, just to try and get it under control. it's a mess in there, and as much as I think microalgae in the fuge is good for nutrient uptake, i'm no longer thinking that this is desirable.




you mean remove the GFO and put carbon there instead (i would be using Rox 0.8, not seachem matrix -- still the same suggestion, i presume?)

what bacteria are you referring to? I have a lot of live rock both in the display and sump, and a lot of live sand as well -- what kind of bacteria do you think i'm missing?



This is again confusing -- I was thinking about dosing carbon for awhile, but then I decided that my problem was low nutrient, not high nutrient. my understanding was that dosing carbon removed excess nutrients, which seems to be the opposite of what i should be doing if my water is nutrient deficient?

I'm talking about Seachem Matrix Media rocks. They are like little pebbles that you can use in the BRS reactor. The bacteria I'm referring to is Brightwell or something else like Zeovit. By adding the bacteria you will be getting more diversity (different bacteria) in your system. Your water changes are fine. I wouldn't cut back anymore.

 

[d0ughb0y]

you may still be overfeeding. or it may be the pe mysis cube.
I had algae issue when I was feeding 1 pe mysis cube and I have more fish than what you listed. it started to recede when I reduced it to half a cube, then later stopped using it altogether and just used a different brand and went back to 1 cube and no algae problem. so you may want to try half a cube and no cyclopeze.

 

[Ycore]

It's funny, both your setup and symptoms are very similar to my own. I have the CAD 50G so have much of the same gear as you as well. I also employed a DSB with chaeto and fed mysis 5X a week. I didn't run a reactor (just chemi-pure elite in a filter sock) and am also using D-D salt.

My symptoms were mild cyano, algae film on glass on a daily basis, white harmless flatworm explosion (just annoying mainly), and sps would either brown out entirely or the base/skin would turn white while polyps would have a faded color or turn brown. LPS and zoas were all fine. Zero nitrates and immeasurable phosphates using salifert. Coralline was growing like crazy though.

Based upon those symptoms and my research the presense of cyano, algae, happy flatworms, and amazing coralline in combination with browned (yet living) sps could only indicate high nutrients and/or phosphates.

So here is what I have done. It's only been a month but I have already seen significant improvement:

4 weeks ago: I got a Hanna phosphate meter. It showed I had .11 phosphates. Fine for LPS, not good for SPS. Hence part of the brown issue.. Conclusion: Chaeto isn't all that hot at removing phosphates, and whatever GFO there is in chemi-pure wasn't enough.

Initial solution: I got a TLF reactor and some phoslock and started running this 24/7. I also cut feeding with frozen to once a week, and I will soak and drain the cube to remove as much phosphates as possible. The rest of the time the fish eat spectrum pellets, and I am careful to not add more than they can eat. I realized feeding fish mysis that often is messy.. More of it would be flying around the tank than in their belly. Now the mysis is pretty much once a week for the LPS, target fed.

Result: Within two weeks cyano started to decrease, less film on glass, phosphates read .06, and coralline growth slowed. My pokerstar monti, whose polyps were brown had started to turn green again.

Two weeks ago: After lots of reading, I decided to try Zeovit. I could reuse my TLF reactor for the zeolites, and the zeoback, zeolites, zeofood, and zeostart only ran me $60 or so and this will last me months. I shop vacced out the DSB in my fuge and fired up the reactor with the zeolites as per their very specific dosage instruction.

It's only been two weeks so it is too early to say anything conclusive, but my flatworm population has died down, cyano is totally gone, Chaeto has started to whither, and coralline has slowed immensely. My sps has started to brighten a bit and my LPS still seem happy. The only thing that looks ****ed are a few mushrooms that have shrunk up.. This almost sounds bad, as one is trained to think that wildfire cheato teeming with pods and rampant coralline growth is a good thing, and in a sense it is, if one just wants to keep lps and softies..

I honestly think you are on the right road by simply adding the Phosban reactor and reducing feedings. I think those two things alone given time will result in a good improvement in your SPS color. You're already seeing a decrease in chaeto and corraline growth, and this will result in better SPS color. However, if you want to give Zeovit a try, it isn't nearly has high maintenance or costly as some people mak it out to be, and so far I like the results and the "mad scientist" starve your coral for color approach lol.

 

[timdanger]

you may still be overfeeding. or it may be the pe mysis cube.
I had algae issue when I was feeding 1 pe mysis cube and I have more fish than what you listed. it started to recede when I reduced it to half a cube, then later stopped using it altogether and just used a different brand and went back to 1 cube and no algae problem. so you may want to try half a cube and no cyclopeze.

my problems started before i switched to PEMysis (from hikari mysis cubes) about 3 weeks ago. i also switched to frozen cyclopeeze from freeze-dried cyclopeeze. and, for full disclosure, i'm not necessarily feeding the whole cube of PEMysis every time -- sometimes i feed cubes over 2 days, depending on how readily the fish are taking it. so, although i feed 5 times a week, it probably ends up being about 4 cubes of the PEMysis.

 

[d0ughb0y]

my problems started before i switched to PEMysis (from hikari mysis cubes) about 3 weeks ago. i also switched to frozen cyclopeeze from freeze-dried cyclopeeze. and, for full disclosure, i'm not necessarily feeding the whole cube of PEMysis every time -- sometimes i feed cubes over 2 days, depending on how readily the fish are taking it. so, although i feed 5 times a week, it probably ends up being about 4 cubes of the PEMysis.

still may be too much, as I am able to feed half a cube to more fish than you listed. try feeding every other day.

 

[timdanger]

It's funny, both your setup and symptoms are very similar to my own. I have the CAD 50G so have much of the same gear as you as well. I also employed a DSB with chaeto and fed mysis 5X a week. I didn't run a reactor (just chemi-pure elite in a filter sock) and am also using D-D salt.

i know your tank from n-r. :beer:

My symptoms were mild cyano, algae film on glass on a daily basis, white harmless flatworm explosion (just annoying mainly), and sps would either brown out entirely or the base/skin would turn white while polyps would have a faded color or turn brown. LPS and zoas were all fine. Zero nitrates and immeasurable phosphates using salifert. Coralline was growing like crazy though.

Based upon those symptoms and my research the presense of cyano, algae, happy flatworms, and amazing coralline in combination with browned (yet living) sps could only indicate high nutrients and/or phosphates.

So here is what I have done. It's only been a month but I have already seen significant improvement:

4 weeks ago: I got a Hanna phosphate meter. It showed I had .11 phosphates. Fine for LPS, not good for SPS. Hence part of the brown issue.. Conclusion: Chaeto isn't all that hot at removing phosphates, and whatever GFO there is in chemi-pure wasn't enough.

makes sense -- i almost bought one of those hanna units, but it wasn't really in my budget (though it's rapidly moving up my priority list). my issue is less with brown corals and more with pale/creamy corals. i have a few brown ones, but they didn't turn brown, they came to me brown (e.g. my Idaho Grape from ATL -- :furious.

Initial solution: I got a TLF reactor and some phoslock and started running this 24/7. I also cut feeding with frozen to once a week, and I will soak and drain the cube to remove as much phosphates as possible. The rest of the time the fish eat spectrum pellets, and I am careful to not add more than they can eat. I realized feeding fish mysis that often is messy.. More of it would be flying around the tank than in their belly. Now the mysis is pretty much once a week for the LPS, target fed.

Result: Within two weeks cyano started to decrease, less film on glass, phosphates read .06, and coralline growth slowed. My pokerstar monti, whose polyps were brown had started to turn green again.

Two weeks ago: After lots of reading, I decided to try Zeovit. I could reuse my TLF reactor for the zeolites, and the zeoback, zeolites, zeofood, and zeostart only ran me $60 or so and this will last me months. I shop vacced out the DSB in my fuge and fired up the reactor with the zeolites as per their very specific dosage instruction.

It's only been two weeks so it is too early to say anything conclusive, but my flatworm population has died down, cyano is totally gone, Chaeto has started to whither, and coralline has slowed immensely. My sps has started to brighten a bit and my LPS still seem happy. The only thing that looks ****ed are a few mushrooms that have shrunk up.. This almost sounds bad, as one is trained to think that wildfire cheato teeming with pods and rampant coralline growth is a good thing, and in a sense it is, if one just wants to keep lps and softies..

I honestly think you are on the right road by simply adding the Phosban reactor and reducing feedings. I think those two things alone given time will result in a good improvement in your SPS color. You're already seeing a decrease in chaeto and corraline growth, and this will result in better SPS color. However, if you want to give Zeovit a try, it isn't nearly has high maintenance or costly as some people mak it out to be, and so far I like the results and the "mad scientist" starve your coral for color approach lol.

i would certainly spend $60 to get rid of algae and to color up my corals, but i'm worried that i'm already dealing with a nutrient deficiency -- again, i have brown corals, but it's the ones that have paled since being added to my tank that i'm thinking are more indicative of the issue. at least, that's what i'm thinking at this point. that's based on the fact that (1) i have no cyano, and (2) i have very little coralline growth at this point, especially considering what i did have at first (before i started using phosphate remover). also, the fact that even the coralline is colorless/bleached looking makes me lean away from it being an excess nutrient issue.

 

[timdanger]

still may be too much, as I am able to feed half a cube to more fish than you listed. try feeding every other day.

certainly is a possibility, i guess -- the food i feed gets eaten pretty quickly, so i didn't see it as overfeeding, but i have no idea. what kind of fish and what size are you feeding? i've got about a 4" ocellaris, 2.5" royal gramma, 6" bluespotted jawfish, 1.5" mccosker's flasher wrasse (plus the 2 shrimp, which eat at least some of the mysis).

 

[timdanger]

I'm talking about Seachem Matrix Media rocks. They are like little pebbles that you can use in the BRS reactor. The bacteria I'm referring to is Brightwell or something else like Zeovit. By adding the bacteria you will be getting more diversity (different bacteria) in your system. Your water changes are fine. I wouldn't cut back anymore.

oh, i see what you mean.

what's the benefit of more/diverse bacteria in the system? my understanding was that you dosed carbon/bacteria to reduce excess nutrients.

 

[d0ughb0y]

certainly is a possibility, i guess -- the food i feed gets eaten pretty quickly, so i didn't see it as overfeeding, but i have no idea. what kind of fish and what size are you feeding? i've got about a 4" ocellaris, 2.5" royal gramma, 6" bluespotted jawfish, 1.5" mccosker's flasher wrasse (plus the 2 shrimp, which eat at least some of the mysis).

I have 10 fish, and 1 cube everyday is plenty, did not have a problem when I reduced to half a cube. whenever I get an algae outbreak, its always due to overfeeding.

imho, you don't need a phosphate meter. I know, because I bought one (out of desperation to solve algae problem) and later sold it.
from what I observed, if you got algae, then you got phosphate. and you can still get 0 phosphate reading and have some algae, so using algae presence as a gauge is better.

 

[timdanger]

I have 10 fish, and 1 cube everyday is plenty, did not have a problem when I reduced to half a cube. whenever I get an algae outbreak, its always due to overfeeding.

imho, you don't need a phosphate meter. I know, because I bought one (out of desperation to solve algae problem) and later sold it.
from what I observed, if you got algae, then you got phosphate. and you can still get 0 phosphate reading and have some algae, so using algae presence as a gauge is better.

i mean, i'm not saying this doesn't make sense -- because, i do have algae -- but, what about the pale/creamy coral colors, which i understand to be more a sign of low nutrients, not high?

 

[Ycore]

For me, the Hanna meter is more confirmation of what I suspect based upon algae presense and such. It's more a peace of mind kind of thing for me. In the long run, the meter costs less than chemical test kits and is more accurate.

I have both brown and pale sps-- it just really depends on the species.. My ORA Red planet has pale skin, but my Montis are brown. I think they are tied to the same issue, they just exibit symptoms differently.

You *may* have low nutrients, but the question is whether the nutrients you have (or had with high nutrients) are of the type that are beneficial and/or usable by SPS. The goal with Zeovit is strip all nutrients from the tank, then selectively add bacteria and nutrients that are targetted to coral growth. Snake Oil? Hogwash? Maybe, but there are a ton of beautiful sps tanks out there that run this system and swear by it.

I wouldn't worry about the faded coralline. Mine faded after adding the phosban reactor and cutting feedings too. Didn't seem to harm my corals one bit.


Also, keep in mind that it can seem that things get worse before they get better.. The SPS that had come to depend on phosphates take time to adjust to the low phosphate environment.. This is at least what people on the zeovit forum have said.

You WANT ultra low nutrients. It's why zeovit, vodka dosing, Biopellets is all the rage.. An attempt to achive ULNS environment

i know your tank from n-r. :beer:



makes sense -- i almost bought one of those hanna units, but it wasn't really in my budget (though it's rapidly moving up my priority list). my issue is less with brown corals and more with pale/creamy corals. i have a few brown ones, but they didn't turn brown, they came to me brown (e.g. my Idaho Grape from ATL -- :furious.

i would certainly spend $60 to get rid of algae and to color up my corals, but i'm worried that i'm already dealing with a nutrient deficiency -- again, i have brown corals, but it's the ones that have paled since being added to my tank that i'm thinking are more indicative of the issue. at least, that's what i'm thinking at this point. that's based on the fact that (1) i have no cyano, and (2) i have very little coralline growth at this point, especially considering what i did have at first (before i started using phosphate remover). also, the fact that even the coralline is colorless/bleached looking makes me lean away from it being an excess nutrient issue.

 

[d0ughb0y]

i mean, i'm not saying this doesn't make sense -- because, i do have algae -- but, what about the pale/creamy coral colors, which i understand to be more a sign of low nutrients, not high?

yeah, that is a puzzle.
I know too much light can cause that, but I can't say you have too much light with a 150w+T5. just solve one problem at a time, and I think the algae problem is a good one to start with. I once almost quit due to algae problem, thought I'd never see the day my tank will be algae free. but now my tank is completely algae free and I don't even use gfo.

 

[timdanger]

yeah, that is a puzzle.
I know too much light can cause that, but I can't say you have too much light with a 150w+T5. just solve one problem at a time, and I think the algae problem is a good one to start with. I once almost quit due to algae problem, thought I'd never see the day my tank will be algae free. but now my tank is completely algae free and I don't even use gfo.

i guess i'm trying to just solve one problem at a time, but i just want to make sure i'm solving the right problem. this tank is 10 months old, and i've had SPS in it for about 5 months, so it's just frustrating to feel like i could still be months away from getting any color out of my corals, because i still don't even know what problem i'm dealing with.

 

[timdanger]

any other ideas?

 

[timdanger]

.. nobody?

 

[Gyr]

I'm tagging along on this thread, as my SPS have shown similar changes lately, too. Some acros paler/fading, others brown/cream colored, all monti's unaffected (so far). All still growing well. The too much/too little nutrient question has me stumped.
I appreciate the advice others are giving you, timdanger. I've decided to make efforts to lower my nutrients (increasing GAC, going for a wetter skimmate), I'll let you know if it helps.
Kurt

 

[timdanger]

I'm tagging along on this thread, as my SPS have shown similar changes lately, too. Some acros paler/fading, others brown/cream colored, all monti's unaffected (so far). All still growing well. The too much/too little nutrient question has me stumped.
I appreciate the advice others are giving you, timdanger. I've decided to make efforts to lower my nutrients (increasing GAC, going for a wetter skimmate), I'll let you know if it helps.
Kurt

I used to try for wetter skimmate -- now i've switched to dryer skimmate.

I understand that there are obviously a lot of potential variables here, but it just makes me crazy that I can't even figure out whether my problem is high nutrients or low nutrients.