Pardon me for putting this posting over here .....but it's related to SPS

[machodik]

Dear All,

Throughout all these years I thought taking slowly and working first on maintaining a good water quality is the best road to a successful SPS dreamer.

I have working hard in trying to :
1) reduced my NO3 and PO4 from previously 25 ppm and 0.30 ppm to now <0.5 ppm and 0.03 ppm respectively. This was done thru the installation of biopellet and GFO reactor .

2) I have maintain my Alk and Calcium and Magnesium level to 7.6 dkh , 440 ppm and 1320 ppm respectively , and this was done with the installation of my Geo 618 with back up of my Watson Mallow pumps.

3) I have spend some money for my lightning , with 2 kessil A360E , 4 T5 German made bulb.

4) I have reinforce my MP 40 Wes with another Jebao RW-15 for a better flow

4) I installed my AWC at 1 % water change they the installation of my 2nd Watson - Mallow pumps which make my reefing life a lot so easier than in the past.

My latest water parameter :
Alk - 7.6 dkh
Ca - 415 ppm
Mg - 1280 ppm
Po4 - 0.03
No3- 0.5
Ph - 8.2-8.3
Sp gr. - 1.026

Now my tank should consider good for my LPS and Fish but not as good as to my SPS of which is my ultimate target for all these hardship and not to mentioned money being spend.

I don't know why I can not grow my Acros and now only one left with browning . While some digi is just fine.

Is there anything I miss? Some friend as me to removed my biopellet reactor but I am worry this will certainly boost my No3 and Po4 back to the old high level. Or should I dismantle it as advise ?

I feed my corals with all the stuff as you guys do. And I don't know if it is because I create a very low nutrient is the main problem ?

Here are some photos :

1) my one and only left Acros (browsing tips)

2) some still fine digi:

3) happily LPS growing larger and very happy:

4) should I remove one of these?;

5) flow equips etc:

Cheers,

MD

 

[machodik]

Pardon me for putting this posting over here .....but it's related to SPS

6) the worst tank of the months or years;

7) my other supplement equip:

 

[machodik]

Pardon me for putting this posting over here .....but it's related to SPS

One more thing , I wonder why my slimmer waste water are greenish color ;

Is this normal ? A is cause by Algae? Or the Amino Acid ( Red Sea Reef Energy) I added once a week?

Also much curious inspite of my low nutrient (no3 and Po4) still I need to scrap the tank glass wall every week for algae. And yes , my test kit is just fine I use all with salifert and only po4 by Hanna checker)

Sorry to have my posting divided into 2 post due to picture post limitation , hope you guys will comment it as a whole . Thanks and look forward to your values advises so I can make my tank like yours !

 

[Pittsburgh]

Well, I'd say that the only issue I currently see is your Alk being a bit on the low side. 9-11 dKh is the recommended range for SPS. I keep mine at around 10.

Otherwise, why don't you give us some more history on your SPS corals. When did you fix your NO3/PO4 issues, when did you start adding SPS. How quickly would they die and it looked like. How stable are your major parameters, etc.

As for the skimmate green color. I wonder if the bottle is exposed to your fuge light at all in the stand? That would explain the water turning green.

 

[machodik]

Thanks Pittsburg for a quick reply and advise.

I working on my nutrient until it goes steadily stable at that low range before I start adding corals . It actually tools me a years that water parameters stay that stable before I start adding corals .

I maintain my Alk down because I observed that when my Alk goes up to around 9 or so that corals start stned . In fact I have around 4 or 5 colors stned and die due to rise in Alk . That is why I have been adjusting my calcium reactors until now it really kicks in (of coarse With the help of my Watson mallow pumps that stabilize the effluent drip rate).

Oh , you got it right that the said bottle expose to some lights which make it greenish water , oh ! Why I have not think of this ! So dumb ! Thanks

 

[nemodan]

I do not see any issues with your parameters. Most of the low nutrient tanks have Alk levels around 7 dkh.

Could be the lights are affecting the Acros ?

Why you do not try to add some cheap acros again. Like a green slime. Very colorful and cheap and strong to grow. And let see what happens.

If that where my tank I would never worried to set up a calcium reactor until it has a biomass that will justify it. 10-15% weekly water changes would be enought to keep those few corals with perfect water parameters. Now is done so I will not change anything.

Again, I am scratching my head why you can't growth some acros with that setup and water parameters and the stability that you describe.

Can you describe what type of water are you using as well as the salt brand. How do you prepare it. What containers are you using to keep the new salt water for daily automatic water changes. What is the TDS (total disolver solutes) of the water you use.

Thanks

 

[Pittsburgh]

So how fast would they start stning for you?

In my experience, the actual Alk reading is not as important as the swing. My SPS were just fine at 8 as they were at 11 dkh, but the change in alk took months to achieve. Again, I'll say that your alk is a bit on a low side. If you choose to bring it up, do it very very slow. Then again, it could just be the testing issue.

Your pictures are a bit blurry, but I think I see quite a bit of coralline algae growing on rocks and pumps. That's a very good sign that your water quality is good. If that's the case, I wonder if perhaps you have too much flow directed straight at your SPS frags stressing them out. With your MP40, you should be able to adjust the flow accordingly. I do see that your SPS frags are right in between of two very powerful powerheads...

 

[machodik]

Pardon me for putting this posting over here .....but it's related to SPS

Thanks Memodan for writing and comment.

My RO membrane give 6 ppm TDS but I don't have DI so I don't know if this also causing issue ? Anyway using NSW now so I don't think it affect much .

In the Past, The salt mix I use was Red Sea Coral Pro that I later change to Red Sea salt because of it high AlK. But later I also observed that Red Sea salt does not able to give me an Alk of around 7.6 to 7.9 dkh or should I say below 8 dkh so I change to natural sea water.

I usually keep my Natural Sea Water (NSW) for 3 weeks before using and testing ammonia before using each time.

I keep my NSW in this kind of container , as my house is not as big space as you guys in the U.S. , I use my balcony to hold my AWC systems , here is the small container for my AWC :

And my plastic container for reserve some new NSW:

I have a green DIGI that looks fine :

Yes , I agree with you that I have to buy some cheap Acros to test what happen but I still have one that i posted earlier only it is browning , actually I am hoping if it get better then it means my system is good to raise more SPS, will this be the right way to so as well instead of placing new Acros be it cheap or expensive one ?

Cheers,


MD

 

[machodik]

So how fast would they start stning for you?

In my experience, the actual Alk reading is not as important as the swing. My SPS were just fine at 8 as they were at 11 dkh, but the change in alk took months to achieve. Again, I'll say that your alk is a bit on a low side. If you choose to bring it up, do it very very slow. Then again, it could just be the testing issue.

Your pictures are a bit blurry, but I think I see quite a bit of coralline algae growing on rocks and pumps. That's a very good sign that your water quality is good. If that's the case, I wonder if perhaps you have too much flow directed straight at your SPS frags stressing them out. With your MP40, you should be able to adjust the flow accordingly. I do see that your SPS frags are right in between of two very powerful powerheads...

Hi Pittsburgh,

Thanks again. I totally agree with you over the period of swing of Alk vs the level of Alk itself . It happened to me when my calcium reactor before suddenly got bubbles and merely release air than water at the effluent end which causing Alk swing and corals stned.

But since I have a ULNS so I think it is better to maintain low Alk right now .

May be you got the point over the flow so strong of which I have to re adjust both pumps to much lower or perhaps I have to use only one instead of both but I remember in the past only one MP40 seems to not enough but when the time I add the jebao RW 15 the DIGI grows much faster then.

 

[swhobbie1]

Is it recommended to use both a GFO reactor and a Biopellets reactor ? Isn't that too much for 1 tank ?

 

[dkeller_nc]

There are a couple of red flags from what you've posted. The first is RO water with a TDS of 6 ppm. I know nothing about water treatment in Taiwan, but in the US, municipal tap water is typically treated with chloramine. An RO-only system will not remove everything in the water; in addition to the ammonia that can make it through an RO membrane, you could also be allowing small amounts of copper and other dissolved metals through to your make-up water. And this is assuming that you've a carbon filter ahead of the RO membrane, and you change it frequently that it's effectively splitting the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia, and the carbon's removing the chlorine.

The other issue is the use of NSW. Natural sea water can be quite good for a reef tank, assuming that it's collected from a non-polluted source. That's not an easy thing to accomplish if you're collecting from the shore in a populous area. I would suggest switching over entirely to ASW for a while, and upgrading your water filtration to an RODI system with effective carbon filtration. It will at least help to eliminate a couple of possibilities for your issues.

 

[machodik]

Wow ! I think angels is coming to my rescue.

I will check dealers to see if I can installed additional DI to my existing RO system.

The NSW comes from LFS that I think they also the same source of NSW the sell to me as to their own tank in the stores . But the only thing why I keep NSW for 3 weeks before use because of try to quarantine the water from any kind of unwanted ova etc. I have a power head to keep the constant flow before using it in my AWC.

I think the DI system is a must for me if I return to Synthetic salt mix.

 

[machodik]

Is it recommended to use both a GFO reactor and a Biopellets reactor ? Isn't that too much for 1 tank ?

Am I over killed in this part ?

 

[machodik]

What I am wondering is if the ULNS is really helpful for SPS as I learned SPS needs some Nitrate and Phosphate for their growth?

But on the other hand I still have algae on the glass wall and need to scrap every weeks.

So , how many successful SPS growers has Biopellet and or GFO in their sumps ?

 

[dkeller_nc]

I think the DI system is a must for me if I return to Synthetic salt mix.

It's a must for you whether or not you go to ASW. The purity of the evaporation make-up water is, by far, the most important. By the very nature of a tank, whatever's in the evaporation make-up will be concentrated.

By the way - light exposure and subsequent algae growth in your skimmate bottle isn't the only answer (though it may be the correct one) - concentration of copper compounds skimmed from the tank water will also turn skimmate green.

 

[machodik]

Pardon me for putting this posting over here .....but it's related to SPS

Well noted , do you think in order to make sure the existing level of copper in my tank , is it advisable for me to test copper level ? I have salifert test kits that never been use since I bought it.

I wonder salifert copper test kits will be able to help me check copper residual coming from the water system.

 

[nemodan]

What I am wondering is if the ULNS is really helpful for SPS as I learned SPS needs some Nitrate and Phosphate for their growth?

But on the other hand I still have algae on the glass wall and need to scrap every weeks.

So , how many successful SPS growers has Biopellet and or GFO in their sumps ?

I see this in this way: it is easy to grow SPS in ULNS tank where you can manage to have some nutrients for the corals by increasing the fish bioload and as a consequence of that more feeding and more fish poop.


I will do 1 change at a time.

Looks like you do not have the best water condition that today's technology can provide. Add the DI resin and get 0 ppm after the DI resin.

Use now RO/DI 0 ppm water to prepare artificial sea water. Continue using red sea salt or reef cristal. Just do some weekend 10-15 % water changes or around that with your continuous WC system. NSW will be replaced slowly.

Do not change your tank Alk . 7-8 dkh is more than better to keep a LNT (low nutrient tank).

Mine is:

0.04 ppm Phosp
0.00 ppm Nitrates

6.5-7 dkh
Ca 440

I just dose 2 parts.

1025 salinity
pH 7.95 - 8.43 (day fluctuation)
Temp 78-79 (day fluctuation)

Here is a pic last week

 

[machodik]

Thanks for all these valued comment and advises, I am happy to have you all with me for this almost frustrating feeling whenever I see my tank and saw the most of yours here in RC

Anyway, I don't know if this make sense or not but I try to test the water of my Tank and water of my RO system with salifert Copper test kits and both stay zero even after 10 mins , 20 mins and even to 30 mins of waiting. I am not sure if this test is relevant to want earlier discuss here about water with possible copper residual due to only RO system I used.

Anyway , I will find ways to add DI system and hope this is the main culprit and for sure I will go back to Red Sea salt but I am worry it still give about 8.2 dkh to 8.6 dkh. I heard from one of the member here that he use KZ salt which is about 7 dkh and he just supplement with 2 parts dosing then to let it reached his desire level .

I heard the KZ salt is expensive but since I am not using KZ system so I don't know if it will be a plus for me to look for this brand salt.

I am determined to find the reason behind why inspite of my effort to reached all parameters , why my Acros are not supporting my effort till now and they just die ?

Cheers ,

MD

 

[machodik]

I see this in this way: it is easy to grow SPS in ULNS tank where you can manage to have some nutrients for the corals by increasing the fish bioload and as a consequence of that more feeding and more fish poop.


I will do 1 change at a time.

Looks like you do not have the best water condition that today's technology can provide. Add the DI resin and get 0 ppm after the DI resin.

Use now RO/DI 0 ppm water to prepare artificial sea water. Continue using red sea salt or reef cristal. Just do some weekend 10-15 % water changes or around that with your continuous WC system. NSW will be replaced slowly.

Do not change your tank Alk . 7-8 dkh is more than better to keep a LNT (low nutrient tank).

Mine is:

0.04 ppm Phosp
0.00 ppm Nitrates

6.5-7 dkh
Ca 440

I just dose 2 parts.

1025 salinity
pH 7.95 - 8.43 (day fluctuation)
Temp 78-79 (day fluctuation)

Here is a pic last week

What a nice tank ! Hope mine will be like yours

 

[dkeller_nc]

Any hobbyist copper test kit won't be conclusive if it reads "zero". The reason is that these test kits are designed to monitor therapeutic copper levels used for treating marine fish with parasite infections. Their LOD (limit of detection) is typically in the parts per million range.

However, copper in the parts per billion range can significantly adversely affect marine invertebrates (including corals). This is why you typically see the advise given to use RODI water that tests as 0 ppm TDS. It's not that a little bit of sodium, potassium or other mineral contaminant that would raise the TDS of RO water would cause any problems, it's that if you don't have 0 TDS, you don't know what's in the water, and copper is a very common contaminant of municipal systems.