PE, zoo, or ...

APFish

Premium Member
Can someone tell me the basic distinction between zoo's people eater, and palys.

Is it size? Is it the little white dot in the middle, is it personal preference?

I was just wondering, I am wanting to get rid of some frags and wanted to make sure that I was calling them the right thing.

Rob
 
it's my understanding PE types (palythoas) are distinguished by the small green slit in the middle of the polyp. And as far as I know they are larger in size. There are several PE types that are not difficult to acquire. Zoos are smaller and are limitless with coloration--definitely smaller than PE. There are protopalythoas that are polyps larger than the PE (palythoas). I've only seen greens and browns. Have several and I think there kind of an eye sore. This is the way I distinguish the different ployps, but certainly doesn't mean I'm accurate...I'm sure gflat will chime in.
 
I think that a lot of the problem is that even scientist can't agree on species distinctions in/among these groups, leaving us "lowly" hobbyist to apply common names all willy-nilly. It seems that gflat is the resident expert, but for the most part I'd say greystreet has a handle on the way people usually use the names. Call 'em what you'd like, but the best way that you can let people know what they're up for buying is by getting a decent pic and posting it... looking forward to seeing what you've got.
 
I thought I might post some examples from stuff I already had uploaded. There's bound to be some disagreement, but I think these pictures are good examples of what people are talking about when they throw around the names (as per what greystreet said). Here goes...


Zooanthids

3 color variants from my tank - see tons more at zoaid.com
293498871_0a978da040_b.jpg



Palythoas (People-eaters)

Green PE variant from my tank
293494793_7d113c3a54_o.jpg


Purple PE from zoaid.com
main.php


Red PE from zoaid.com
main.php



Protopalythoas (unless I'm wrong, they are also distinguished by the fact that they grow a thick mat underneath of them that the polyps grow out of and retreat into...which you can see in the pictures)

From my tank
293498309_5bf3c0f435_b.jpg


From greystreet
316195432_42ee705fe5_b.jpg
 
Okay. Here's the skinny. You have to know I would chime in...

Back before a guy named James Reimer (a zoa researcher in Japan or Okinawa) turned my loose zoa ID'ing life upside down with an actual classification for PE's, we used to call all large polyped zoas Protopalythoa. At that time, all PE's, as well as the millions of morphs that may look similar to the green Protopalythoa psammaphila above in Brian's shot, were lumped into this category. The only thing that was ever considered a paly by me (so many people call things paly's when they aren't, esp. in the Zoa forum) was the picture below.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/Palythoaorange.htm

In this pic, the mouths are mostly closed, but that allows you to see the structure. A classical Palythoa (by the majority of us who had actually looked into it before jreimer changed things) was thought of as a thick mat with an embedded coenenchyme (stalk). The mouths were at or very near the surface of the mat. You see tons of these in the Caribbean, but don't see them for sale as much, as colors are limited.

What was left over were usually refered to as zoas, though there are a number of other genus of zoanthids. FWIW, zoa(nthid) is a generic term including all similar genus. Zoanthus is a genus, Palythoa is a genus, and (currently) Protopalythoa is a genus.

Fast forward...

James Reimer did a DNA analysis on several similar morphs of zoas to classify them. It just so happened that the ones he tested were RPE's (red people eaters). He conclusively showed that all zoas that have the white striations on the underside of the polyp when it is closed and the green slit mouth are Zoanthus gigantus. I have seen one of his photo albums online and he has other zoas besides PE's in his Z. gigantus album. I will hunt that link down and post a little later.

In addition to the reclassification, he helped further educate some of us in the zoa forum on Palythoa's. He mentioned that the genus Protopalythoa will most likely be absorbed into the Palythoa genus. What makes something a Palythoa is that the animal takes fine particles (sand, etc.) into its coenenchyme. In Brian's Protopalythoa psammaphila above, if you look closely, you can see what looks like fine sand paper. That supports the paly description and his statment that Proto. will likely be absorbed, as the genetic similarities are too similar to need a separate genus in many cases. There are still a lot of unknowns, as this is not a hot spot for scientists. People like James Reimer will eventually research these guys and classify them all (may take several lifetimes, but any advancements are nice).

All that said, here is a link that I have posted in the Zoa forum several times over the years with some shots of different types of zoas (and descriptions). Bear in mind that some of this info may be outdated, but most of it is still current with today's research.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/invert.htm
 
So it seems that there's quite a disconnect between what people are calling things and what they actually are... I'll try to use that info, Gary, to correct the error of my ways.
 
No offense taken Gary... wasn't being sarcastic (although now I read back it could have been taken that way). Just saw the way I was labelling them was wrong. I'm not a stickler for specific names of the different "morphs", but I would like to at least get the genus' right.
 
Oh, I didn't read yours as sarcastic, I just hate coming across as a know it all (and I know I come across like that sometimes;)).
 
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