DeltecRules
New member
I was thinking of picking up a peppermint hogfish, how are they with fairy wrasses and I have heard there are three different varietis of peppermint hogs? Can anyone explain the differences?
Scott
Scott
Peppermint Hogfish and Fairy wrasses
- Thread starter DeltecRules
- Start date
heuerfan
Active member
Don't think its a good idea, i had a peppermint hog and it killed all my flasher wrasses. I also read from someone here on RC that a newly aquired peppermint killed his lineatus after 6 months and the lineatus was bigger. 3 different hogs mean different color variation, probably same temperment. They are great fish with alot of personality but they don't like wrasses.
I still would like to get one but would not risk it with my Fairy's and Flashers again unless it was really tiny, but even then i would be concerned.
Good luck.
I still would like to get one but would not risk it with my Fairy's and Flashers again unless it was really tiny, but even then i would be concerned.
Good luck.
copps
Premium Member
Hey Scott, I had one of these guys for a while in my old 65. Unfortunately when moving about a year and a half ago he jumped into the overflow when I was moving the tank and died. He tore apart a few fairy wrasses and did not play well with them FYI.
To clear up the three different varieties I'll help you out... it's unbelievable the misinformation and confusion shown in naming this fish. There is one of those three that currently does not have a scientific name, and funny enough that is the one that's mostly all of the specimens in the trade collected in the Pacific. Here's the three...
1. Bodianus masudai- Almost never in the trade... limited Pacific distribution in and around Japan, the Ryukus, and Taiwan. It's much different than the other two "peppermints". Here's a couple of shots...
2. Bodianus opercularis- This fish has been described for a while, and is limited to the Indian Ocean, although well represented in a number of places there. Here's a shot of one. All of the ones entering the trade are very similar to this species...
3. Bodianus cf. opercularis- This is the correct current name given to all the specimens entering the trade from scattered locales in the tropical Pacific including Micronesia and the Line Islands (Christmas Island). It was only recently discovered around 1999 in the Pacific and began entering the trade then. It WAS very expensive... in the $500 plus range, but has significantly dropped, although it will never get too low as it is found in deep water. It's provisionally been given the opercularis name (ie the cf.) but papers are currently going that may clear this up... it is probably a new species, but that stuff goes well beyond what we could eyeball with a photo. Here is a shot of mine... heuer's shot is also a nice representation of this species... Obviously by knowing the specimen's origin will let you know, as they are an ocean apart, but most all that enter the trade are coming from the Pacific nowadays... Hope that helps!
To clear up the three different varieties I'll help you out... it's unbelievable the misinformation and confusion shown in naming this fish. There is one of those three that currently does not have a scientific name, and funny enough that is the one that's mostly all of the specimens in the trade collected in the Pacific. Here's the three...
1. Bodianus masudai- Almost never in the trade... limited Pacific distribution in and around Japan, the Ryukus, and Taiwan. It's much different than the other two "peppermints". Here's a couple of shots...
2. Bodianus opercularis- This fish has been described for a while, and is limited to the Indian Ocean, although well represented in a number of places there. Here's a shot of one. All of the ones entering the trade are very similar to this species...
3. Bodianus cf. opercularis- This is the correct current name given to all the specimens entering the trade from scattered locales in the tropical Pacific including Micronesia and the Line Islands (Christmas Island). It was only recently discovered around 1999 in the Pacific and began entering the trade then. It WAS very expensive... in the $500 plus range, but has significantly dropped, although it will never get too low as it is found in deep water. It's provisionally been given the opercularis name (ie the cf.) but papers are currently going that may clear this up... it is probably a new species, but that stuff goes well beyond what we could eyeball with a photo. Here is a shot of mine... heuer's shot is also a nice representation of this species... Obviously by knowing the specimen's origin will let you know, as they are an ocean apart, but most all that enter the trade are coming from the Pacific nowadays... Hope that helps!
achillesheel
New member
fwiw, i never had a problem with the B. cf opercularis and my fairies. just had a problem keeping them in the tank. i'm actually (supposedly) next in line for a sunrise hogfish (B. sanguineus) from a dealer in hawai'i and with 2 currently undescribed fairy species in my tank, i'm hoping they will all get along. i always had a much bigger problem with mystery wrasses.
copps
Premium Member
achilles, how big was your peppermint, and was he added last to the system?
Regarding your sunrise hog, congratulations! A Hawaiian endemic! I too am next in line for a certain group of other rare fish to go unnamed from Brian...
Incidentally here's a shot of one of the last sunrise hogs to be collected by Brian from a dealer's tank when Brian was doing wholesale... That's the nice thing about Hawaiian fishes... hobbyists can get them direct from the diver... Anyway here's the shot... with some stiff competition, including a pair of gem tangs!
Congrats again...
Regarding your sunrise hog, congratulations! A Hawaiian endemic! I too am next in line for a certain group of other rare fish to go unnamed from Brian...
Incidentally here's a shot of one of the last sunrise hogs to be collected by Brian from a dealer's tank when Brian was doing wholesale... That's the nice thing about Hawaiian fishes... hobbyists can get them direct from the diver... Anyway here's the shot... with some stiff competition, including a pair of gem tangs! Congrats again...achillesheel
New member
well, still have to get a hold of brian, you know. anyways, my hogs were anywhere from 3"-5". normal for the ones ive seen in the trade. ive never had one of the large (7"-9") ones that i rarely see. they were placed in various order. one was first in, the next two were after the fairies were established. the fairies at the time were solor wrasse and social wrasse (before i got addicted to the rare stuff). they were always the most peaceful and personable fish in the tank. they lasted from 1mo to 8mo.
again my mystery has killed 3 peppermint hogfish(indirectly), a roseafacia wrasse, a rhomboid wrasse, a juv. pin tail wrasse, and several anthias. i lost the mystery wrasse to a heat spike (darn window a/c units in 112* heat). i dont think i'll be replacing him
again my mystery has killed 3 peppermint hogfish(indirectly), a roseafacia wrasse, a rhomboid wrasse, a juv. pin tail wrasse, and several anthias. i lost the mystery wrasse to a heat spike (darn window a/c units in 112* heat). i dont think i'll be replacing him
achillesheel
New member
ive seen two pacifics (with the black) at 7-9". i wouldn't buy one at that size but yes ive seen them. 99% of the ones ive seen though were much smaller. the shape does seem to get more elongated at that size so of course they could have been Indian ocean B. opercularis. not 100% sure, just 90% 
heuerfan
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7802854#post7802854 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
Here's a pic of the hog i had, pacific redstripe hog (bodainus masudai)
COPPS: so this is not a masudai, then what is it? Your first pic of the masudai does not look like the second.
achillesheel
New member
this is the currently undescribed Bodianus. if im not mistaken the distribution for this is much greater than the masudai. it goes as peppermint hogfish at most retailers and is much more common (now) in u.s. trade than the two others
copps
Premium Member
Yeah, as achilles said... yours too is the #3 I referenced above. They are found in many Pacific locations at depth. The B. masudai name is always thrown around mistakenly... I've never seen one in the trade here. Regarding the difference between the two photos I see what you are saying and cannot elaborate... the first image is an official fishbase image for B. masudai, and the second is a wild Japanese one shot... either way, clearly different than mine and yours. The Indian Ocean B. opercularis is much more similar to the undescribed Pacific species... to the point where it is unclear if it is a seperate species or not... sort of similar to the difference between P. diacanthus (regal angel) in the Pacific and Indian Ocean... clearly different, but the same species...
achillesheel
New member
from what ive understood, the ones with the black fading to the front tend to be from the pacific, the red and white with the spot on gill is from the IO, and, well, frankly, i haven't seen enough true masudais to really speak on it. from the above picture, i'd say the striping speaks for itself, much more red on the top and more white on the bottom.
deltec- sorry to hijack the thread. how's the roseafacia doing by the way?
deltec- sorry to hijack the thread. how's the roseafacia doing by the way?
achillesheel
New member
true, good point.
DeltecRules
New member
No no, its fine, I appreciate all the input you, copps and everyone else is giving about this incredible fish. My LFS gets these in regulary, all three that you folks are describing, its nice to have a LFS that gets in rare stuff all the time. Not much of a difference between the three. My LFS told me he can get any of the three. I do have some high end fairies that I really don't want to see get murdered. I have a Male Lineatus, Male Flame wrasse, Male Hooded wrasse, Male Pylei wrasse and a mystery wrasse (3 inches) a real wuss, my 2 1/2 inch male pylei puts the mystery wrasse in his place. A collins angel. Would you risk a peppermint hogfish with these guys? They are bold as hell. My LFS had a sunrise hogfish, he picked out which the collector at the time didn't realize what he had. So my LFS sold it for a grand total of $120.00!!! God I wish I was there to grab it. If you had to choose of the three which one would you want? Money isn't an issue, my LFS told me the he can get the Bodianus opercularis for about $150.00. He also told me his collector knows a spot to catch those sunset hogfish. I don't think he will sell them that cheap again though. Those peppermint hogfish look real sweet though. What did you folks normally feed yours?
Achillesheel he kicked the bucket, he was one of the meanest fish I ever had. He murdered my super male laboutei. My LFS can get roseafacia too but I am not sure if I would like another.
copps
Premium Member
I have a feeling the "three varieties" your LFS is talking about are three "opercularis" varieties from different locales, and do not include the B. masudai from Japan. I find it hard to believe that they would regularly get this fish from Japan which is an expensive process... they wouldn't go through the wholesalers, at least not regularly. My guess is that they are three locales shipping opercularis variants... The B. masudai is thrown around way too much for the opercularis varieties... and wholesale lists are worse than anything else when it comes to just using common names with no scientific nomenclature...
With that said, I would stay away from these altogether with fairies after my experiences. Feeding was a nonissue... he ate everything and was a very intelligent fish, sleeping in the same hole every night...
With that said, I would stay away from these altogether with fairies after my experiences. Feeding was a nonissue... he ate everything and was a very intelligent fish, sleeping in the same hole every night...
achillesheel
New member
in my experiences, which do seem different than copps or others on this thread, i wouldn't hesitate to add one of these fish. mine have always been great. as long there is nobody pestering them, these guys would eat brussel sprouts with ketchup if you let them.
if you decide to go with one, i'd go with the red and white variant of the B. cf opercularis. less common in my opinion than the ones with black. very pretty but make sure you keep that lid tight!!! these fish hold the world record for me for carpet surfing!!!!
if you decide to go with one, i'd go with the red and white variant of the B. cf opercularis. less common in my opinion than the ones with black. very pretty but make sure you keep that lid tight!!! these fish hold the world record for me for carpet surfing!!!!
DeltecRules
New member
Copps my LFS did have three B. masudai in last year, he gets fish fom japan quite a bit. He had three interruptus angels last year he got from his japan connection and at a killer price too. So I would believe after seeing the pics of B. masudai here and seeing the fish in person they were indeed B. masudai. I was going to grab one but it seems like the good stuff seems to disappear when I go to the ATM...
My neighbor picked up one of the pacific varities and stuck them in with fairy wrasses in his 200 gallon. I am going to wait and see how they do before I buy one of these guys.
achillesheel, I have an eggcrate over my tank and so far no carpet surfers yet.
