Performance vs Cost (Lignite & GFO).

[cham]

In trying to get the greatest bang for the buck & I'm looking at different carbon/GFO options. I've used the lignite in the past and it seems to perform very well but from what I'm reading the ROX does much better.

So the cost vs performance question comes up. ROX costs $14 per pound vs Lignite at $7.20 per pound.
I realize there may have not been any studies to show excatly how much better it performs but would you guess the perfromance to be more than 200% better?

Same thing for HC vs standard GFO. $34 per pound for the HC and $24 for the standard. This one only has to improve the performance by just under 50%. I can see that being more possible.


In effect, if the performance of the materials aren't higher than 200% and 50% respectively then it makes more sense to buy the standards and change it more often.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think there is good comparative data for GFO.

For carbon, Boomer's the man, and when I last asked him, we concluded that the increased price and capacity about offset each other with respect to ROX vs. other good carbons. I stuck with regular Marineland Black Diamond.

 

[cham]

I don't think there is good comparative data for GFO.

For carbon, Boomer's the man, and when I last asked him, we concluded that the increased price and capacity about offset each other with respect to ROX vs. other good carbons. I stuck with regular Marineland Black Diamond.

I hear ya. And another thing to consider is the performance curve. When you first put carbon in service it will be at peak performance and tail off from there. If you were to buy the lignite and change twice as often then you will also get the benefit of the performance peaks.

But I trust the research of you & boomer.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe he'll chime in. He's a huge fan of ROX, but then again, he's not buying it since he no longer has a tank.

 

[cham]

I don't think there is good comparative data for GFO.

For carbon, Boomer's the man, and when I last asked him, we concluded that the increased price and capacity about offset each other with respect to ROX vs. other good carbons. I stuck with regular Marineland Black Diamond.

What GFO do you use?

 

[cham]

Actually, there is a large seperation for me in the carbon.

I can buy 5 gallons (15 lbs) of lignite for $58. I'd love to compare the ROX 5g bucket but I simply don't have $170 to spend on just carbon so I'd be stuck with the 1g bucket at $40, there aren't any sized between there. Its five gallons or one. So my cost per gallon takes a massive hit.

In that senario

Lignite= $11.60 per gallon
Rox= $40.00 per gallon.

Almost 400% more.

So that pretty much settles the carbon debate!

Now I'm curious about the GFO HC vs standard GFO.
The instructions on BRS site tells you to use half as much, which seems to suggest that it's twice as effective. Anyone have a clue?

 

[frank40]

I have used the BRS HC and Rowa. The BRS is more expensive than the Rowa and IMO the Rowa outperforms the BRS. When i used the BRS it would rapidly drop my PO4 levels but was quickly depleted within a month. The Rowa on the other hand dropped my levels and maintained them for 6-8 weeks depending on how i feed.

BRS HC: 1 gallon/7#'s, $175, $25 per #

Rowa 5kg/11#'s, $234, $21.27 per #

 

[Boomer]

Chime :lol:

Cham it goes like this. Many reefers just do not listen and no matter what the GAC they just use the same amount and change it out at the same time. With that being said, ROX beats the crap out of all of them. If one looks at Lignite ROX it is 1.5 more adsorbent than Lignite and about 1.75 more adsorbent than BD. So, if you choose Lignite just use more and change it out more often. Normally a good rule is 1/3 cup ROX / 50 gal and 1/2 cup / 50 gal for Lignite, each changed out 1 / m. Many reefers are just looking for a GAC where they can use less quantity and get better results, thus the ROX.

As far as price goes, ROX is cheap when compared to SeaChem Matrix Her is the run down.

Seachem - $15.49 per liter
Black Diamond - $3.83 per liter
ROX 0.8 - $9.24 per liter
TFG - $8.45 per liter



Now if we drop that liter thing and go with lbs it is.......


Seachem - $17.58/ per pound
Black Diamond - $3.54 per pound
ROX 0.8 - $11.66 per pound
TFG - $6.40 per pound
Lignite -$ 7.20 / pound

I don't see where you got this

Lignite= $11.60 per gallon
Rox= $40.00 per gallon.

From BRS

Lignite = $ 10.80 / 1.5 lbs / 1/2 gal = $ 7.20 / lb
ROX = $ 20.99 / 1.5 lbs / 1/2 gal = $ 13. 99 /lb

20.90 / 10.80 = 1.93 or 193 %





Lignite = $16.20 / 3 lbs / gal = $ 5.40 / lb
ROX = $ 39.99 / 3 lbs / gal = $ 13.33 / lb

or on the other one $ 40 / gal vs $ 16.20 / gal not $ 11.60

39.99 / 16.20 = 2.46 or 246 %



You can see here they have some funny pricing. The lignite drops almost $ 1.80 / lb and the ROX only drops .63 cents / lb. That ROX IMHO should be about ~ $1.00 / lb less than they show.

At the 5 gal 15 lbs, $ 169.99 vs 58.00 and that is 2.93 or 293 %

$ 11.33 /lb vs $3.88 / lb or $ 33.99 vs $ 11.60 or 293 %

A word on buying it on lbs vs gal or l. That is hard to do as some GAC weigh more / same unit vol. and some have more vol / same unit weight. It is best to buy it /vol and not / weight. ROX does not have the same vol /weight as Lignite. Lignite is .38 g / ml and ROX is .40 g / ml and a bitum GAC is like .50 g / ml

On GFO it is the same, the HC is better but not twice as much. ROWA is better than BRS GFO but not better than HC. A friend of mine has run quite few test on almost all GFO's # 1 HC and # 2 ROWA. So, here too ROWA is a good buy.

 

[cham]

Excellent write up Boomer! Thanks for the info!
So a 150g total system using lignite, a good rule of thumb is 1 1/2 cups changed out monthly.


Lignite= $11.60 per gallon
Rox= $40.00 per gallon.

I got that because I would be forced to buy the ROX in the single gallon jugs since I can't afford to toss down $170 on a 5g bucket of ROX. Buying it buy the 1g jug brings it's cost per gallon up to $40. On the other hand, I can afford to buy the 5g jug of lignite at $64.00 and that brings my cost down to $11.60 per gallon. So based on my particular budget, it seems like the lignite is a no brainer. Just use more and change out more often.

 

[cham]

I have used the BRS HC and Rowa. The BRS is more expensive than the Rowa and IMO the Rowa outperforms the BRS. When i used the BRS it would rapidly drop my PO4 levels but was quickly depleted within a month. The Rowa on the other hand dropped my levels and maintained them for 6-8 weeks depending on how i feed.

BRS HC: 1 gallon/7#'s, $175, $25 per #

Rowa 5kg/11#'s, $234, $21.27 per #

I think the problem is you're comparing the one pound jug of BRS vs the 11 pound jug of Rowa. BRS significantly reduces their prices as you jump up in volume. I just can't drop two or three hundred dollars on GFO in one shot. What the heck do I need with a 3 year supply any way.

I'd prefer to buy a years supply (4 pounds or so) and keep buying each year and save my money for corals.

 

[cham]

One last question for the carbon experts. Since lignite is soft I don't like it to tumble at all.

I use the BRS dual reactor set up. When I pack my carbon in the "DI canister" I put one sponge at the top of the canister, fill with carbon and then put the second sponge at the bottom packed tightly as to not allow tumbling. Is this an acceptable method for running carbon or will there be too much "channeling"?

 

[submersible]

This video from BRS almost has me sold on the ROX.


http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/video?file_name=147

 

[David Grigor]

If price is a concern, consider putting together a group buy with BRS with your locals ( each orders and ships seperately so not much effort needed on your part just put togehter the list of people ).

Our club does it at 2-3 times a year plus you get a slightly better rate for all future orders as well. This can get your per pound cost a bit lower on both the lignite and rox especially on the larger buckets.

Or course this only applies if you were planning to get it from BRS anyways.

 

[Boomer]

Cham

It is fine to run it that way.

Bill
Don't need to see movies as GAC data sheets tell you than. However, glad they still did the movie as a visual aid