phosphate troubles

[petere1989]

ok so my tank is 90 gallons with 30 gallon sump. i've had a constant battle with phosphates with this thing. they go down to 0.02 then up to 0.10. i'm using brightwell aquatics phosphate absorbent. it seems to work but not perfect. I really dislike GFO. my tanks starting to get hair algae now and i'm sure its the phosphates. my other parameters are :

alkalinity-9
calcium-500 (i know its a little high)
magnesium-1400 (up higher to combat algae)
salinity- 1.025
nitrates-0
nitrites-0
ammonia-0
ph-8.2

and current phosphate reading is 0.10

at a loss here. everything seems good, my corals look great and they are growing just fine. I'm not sure whats wrong.
I did just treat the tank for cyno, which is gone and i did a 10 gallon water change. and I'm using instant ocean salt, just the regular. my LFS says he won't sell that salt anymore because it causes algae problems, and he switched salts and all his algae's gone away, so i may try doing some water changes with his salt. thats the only thing i can think of. anybody have any insight on what could be wrong??

 

[HumbleFish]

Could be any number of things. First, are you using RODI water? If so, what's your TDS? I doubt it's your salt; not using RODI or having a high TDS is usually the #1 reason for elevated phosphates.

Another possibility is overfeeding, especially frozen. All fish food contains some phosphates - the frozen kind usually contains higher levels.

 

[Mr tap water]

Hi there
One of the main courses for Cyno Is Hi nutrients and poor circulation you could try increasing your circulation and phosphate reactor would really help a lot also are you using RO Water If not will tribute towards Phos Plus you could also try cut down on your feeding good luck

 

[petere1989]

I am using RODi water at 000 TDS. I rinse my food but maybe i'm just feeding to much. it doesn't seem like a lot but it does get kinda crushed up in small pieces sometimes. I have two mp10's on usually at 90% and two other pumps at 530 each. I'll increase the mp10's though. I have a phosphate/carbon reactor from BRS that i have the carbon and the phosphate stuff in. Would it be ok to feed every other day? Also i've been having trouble with my protein skimmer since i treated the tank for cyno. it overflowed and i've messed with it for hours and can't get it to stop. thats been out now for about 4 days. I can't figure out how to get it to stop overflowing. it did it before and took like a few days until im guessing evaporation took out the medication. i was going to do a few more water changes, maybe 9 gallons total with new salt as recommended by the LFS. but i'm willing to try anything because more and more hair algae is growing and that was the demise of my other tank that i had.

 

[HumbleFish]

I'm guessing you recently used Chemiclean or something similar. The last time I used that stuff, it was more than a week before I could use my skimmer again. WCs helped, but I guess you just have to wait for the active ingredients to wear off.

What kind of fish do you have? IMO, fish with high metabolisms (tangs, anthias, etc.) aren't going to fare well only eating every other day. But that should be fine for gobies, blennies, etc.

I know you said in your OP that you don't like GFO. But it really works wonders for lowering phosphates. I used it back when I was battling high phosphates and GHA in my tank, and it worked great! Some people like biopellets for reducing nitrates & phosphates; but I have no first-hand experience.

 

[petere1989]

I'm guessing you recently used Chemiclean or something similar. The last time I used that stuff, it was more than a week before I could use my skimmer again. WCs helped, but I guess you just have to wait for the active ingredients to wear off.

What kind of fish do you have? IMO, fish with high metabolisms (tangs, anthias, etc.) aren't going to fare well only eating every other day. But that should be fine for gobies, blennies, etc.

I know you said in your OP that you don't like GFO. But it really works wonders for lowering phosphates. I used it back when I was battling high phosphates and GHA in my tank, and it worked great! Some people like biopellets for reducing nitrates & phosphates; but I have no first-hand experience.

ya it was chemiclean. it worked great but like you said, it deems the skimmer basically useless. I have three damsels, a yellow tang, and two clown fish. i'll just stay with feeding once a day, i hate not feeding. as for gfo, i just don't like how it leaves brown on your walls, and you don't know when its bad and the fact that it can get ground up and can release phosphate back into the water when its used up, i just prefer the pellets. the pellets seem to work OK but not perfect though, obviously since my phosphates won't go below 0.10.

 

[oshanickreef]

i had my skimmer overflow and then when you turn it back on it is very sensitive and will overflow if too high. i turned it on its lowest skimming setting and it was still bubbling at the top. so i just watched it and changed it before it overflowed a few times and it settled. also, a waterchange woul dprobably help with that.

 

[ganjero]

my LFS says he won't sell that salt anymore because it causes algae problems, and he switched salts and all his algae's gone away, so i may try doing some water changes with his salt. thats the only thing i can think of. anybody have any insight on what could be wrong??

That is a very poor advice. They might have gotten a contaminated batch but I hardly doubt it. IO salt does not give algae problems.

How old is your tank? Did you cook (this is not literally , please read the process of cooking rock) your rock? It could be leaching phosphates.

Why dont you like GFO? IME GFO with a simple reactor is the most effective media to remove phosphates.

 

[xdiep23]

Why dont you like GFO? IME GFO with a simple reactor is the most effective media to remove phosphates.

+1 on GFO with reactor. I had issues with phosphate being at 0.16 with cyno. Picked up a BRS reactor, ran the starting recommended amount and slowly my phosphates have gone down to 0.00 which given the accuracy being off slightly +/- with Hanna checker, I am happy and notice my cyno slowly going away.

 

[petere1989]

+1 on GFO with reactor. I had issues with phosphate being at 0.16 with cyno. Picked up a BRS reactor, ran the starting recommended amount and slowly my phosphates have gone down to 0.00 which given the accuracy being off slightly +/- with Hanna checker, I am happy and notice my cyno slowly going away.

ya but how much do you let it tumble? and what flow rate would you use (my tanks 90 gallons with 30 gallon sump)

The tanks 8 months old. the rocks i got were dry rock from BRS, the 50 lb box. I just rinsed them with RO water and put them in the tank, but 8 months down the road, i doubt thats the problem (could be though?)

 

[ganjero]

ya but how much do you let it tumble? and what flow rate would you use (my tanks 90 gallons with 30 gallon sump)

The tanks 8 months old. the rocks i got were dry rock from BRS, the 50 lb box. I just rinsed them with RO water and put them in the tank, but 8 months down the road, i doubt thats the problem (could be though?)

That could be your problem, dry rock from different sources (BRS and Marco) has given this issue to some reefers. It can leach phosphates for months if it was not pretreated.

This is one of the threads http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2049855

I think your best bet is to get either the BRS reactor or the Two Little Fishes reactor and start using GFO. Flow should be enough so the top layer tumbles around, you can use a small pump (like maxijets or similar ) or just T-Off you return and use a gate valve ( I use a manifold in my system that is fed by the return pump with a bunch of gate valves to reactors or available for anything I should need).

You don't want too much flow to the point that the GFO gets pulverized.

 

[petere1989]

That could be your problem, dry rock from different sources (BRS and Marco) has given this issue to some reefers. It can leach phosphates for months if it was not pretreated.

This is one of the threads http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2049855

I think your best bet is to get either the BRS reactor or the Two Little Fishes reactor and start using GFO. Flow should be enough so the top layer tumbles around, you can use a small pump (like maxijets or similar ) or just T-Off you return and use a gate valve ( I use a manifold in my system that is fed by the return pump with a bunch of gate valves to reactors or available for anything I should need).

You don't want too much flow to the point that the GFO gets pulverized.

8 months though??

 

[zoafarm]

I also used the BRS dry rock... RODI rinse and straight into tank. My tank has been up for 2 yrs and my Phosphates are consistently around .1 and have been for months. I do have a small amount of algae, but nothing major.

If you are wanting to target your Phosphates, the advice on a GFO reactor is good advice...and the one I would recommend. However, you could also do a search on lanthanum chloride.

With that said, my guess is although your phosphates are a little high, this is only a part of the problem. You say you just had a battle with cyano and you also have hair algae. I bet you have more Nitrates then your test is picking up. It is probably being caused by not only the foods you are using, but also the amount you are using. Along with the rock. The fish you have really don't need much food...with the exception of your tang. For your tang, I would put a clip with some dry seaweed. The others I would feed every other day a small amount. and increase your cleaner crew. At least until you get your tank in control.

Here are my fish, feeding schedule, and tank picture with phosphates at .1 for the past several (9 or more) months:

Tank: 72gal bowfront
Salt Used: Reef Crystals (However, LFS advice about IO is not likely right)
Fish: medium Yellow Tang, Melanurus Wrasse, Harbor Goby, Basslet, and a Blue Green Chromis
Sample Feeding Schedule:
Monday - dry green algae ( 2" x 2" piece) and two pinches of Spectrum 1mm sinking pellets
Tuesdays - two pinches of Spectrum 1mm sinking pellets
Wednesday - dry red algae ( 2" x 2" piece)
Thursday - 1 small cube of rotifers and 1/2 cube of mysis shrimp
Friday thur Sunday - two pinches of Spectrum 1mm sinking pellets per day

Good Luck and Happy Reefing!

 

[xdiep23]

ya but how much do you let it tumble? and what flow rate would you use (my tanks 90 gallons with 30 gallon sump)

The tanks 8 months old. the rocks i got were dry rock from BRS, the 50 lb box. I just rinsed them with RO water and put them in the tank, but 8 months down the road, i doubt thats the problem (could be though?)

My flow is adjusted enough to have GFO media slightly tumble on the surface. You don't want it to blow it all over the place as GFO is soft and will turn into dust like other member stated. Not too sure about your rocks leeching phosphates still but that could be. It could also be you might be overfeeding. I can say that even though my phosphates are testing at 0.00, there is still small amounts of algae on rocks and cyno on my sand. I think its due to whatever amounts in the water column are being used up from algae and cyno that is present in my tank thus its not being detected by test kits. Hook up that GFO reactor and let it run its course. It will go down over time. This hobby from what I have learned is all about patience.

 

[julie180]

If your getting residue from GFO, you need to rinse it better. Use RO water. Tap water will deplete it.

Also, on the 0 nitrates, are you using an API test kit? If so, I bet if you shake the heck out the the reagent, you will get a different number. There is something in there that settles out of solution, sorry, I don't know the specifics, just know it can very easily give false 0.

 

[petere1989]

I also used the BRS dry rock... RODI rinse and straight into tank. My tank has been up for 2 yrs and my Phosphates are consistently around .1 and have been for months. I do have a small amount of algae, but nothing major.

If you are wanting to target your Phosphates, the advice on a GFO reactor is good advice...and the one I would recommend. However, you could also do a search on lanthanum chloride.

With that said, my guess is although your phosphates are a little high, this is only a part of the problem. You say you just had a battle with cyano and you also have hair algae. I bet you have more Nitrates then your test is picking up. It is probably being caused by not only the foods you are using, but also the amount you are using. Along with the rock. The fish you have really don't need much food...with the exception of your tang. For your tang, I would put a clip with some dry seaweed. The others I would feed every other day a small amount. and increase your cleaner crew. At least until you get your tank in control.

Here are my fish, feeding schedule, and tank picture with phosphates at .1 for the past several (9 or more) months:

Tank: 72gal bowfront
Salt Used: Reef Crystals (However, LFS advice about IO is not likely right)
Fish: medium Yellow Tang, Melanurus Wrasse, Harbor Goby, Basslet, and a Blue Green Chromis
Sample Feeding Schedule:
Monday - dry green algae ( 2" x 2" piece) and two pinches of Spectrum 1mm sinking pellets
Tuesdays - two pinches of Spectrum 1mm sinking pellets
Wednesday - dry red algae ( 2" x 2" piece)
Thursday - 1 small cube of rotifers and 1/2 cube of mysis shrimp
Friday thur Sunday - two pinches of Spectrum 1mm sinking pellets per day

Good Luck and Happy Reefing!

nice looking tank! my nitrates have always registered 0 and I even took the water in to get it tested and it registered 0, on the same day. (both were api test kit though, but two kits reading faulty, maybe, but unlikely) I've been and will continue to do water changes a few times a week since i'm switching salts, that will help with the nitrates if they are high, won't it? I'll look into gfo, i just am a little hesitant to use it.

 

[petere1989]

I have found the problem! its so easy i feel dumb. I've had my RO/DI unit since November, so 9 months, i realized i only have changed the di resin. the carbon and the other filter (its a 4 stage) i've never changed. I tested phosphates in the water coming out before i changed my resin today, since it needed it. the phosphates were 0.09 and the tds meter was reading 000. so i was trusting the tds meter without testing the water. I am not sure why it was reading 000 with 0.09 phosphate level but it was. I then changed just the di resin and got a 0.03 phosphate reading. SOOO i've ordered a 4 stage ro/di filter kit from BRS along with a second di resin chamber to ensure that the water will be phosphate free. as for switching salt, I did a phosphate test on the new salt that i am using, and i got 0.09, which is the same as what the water was without salt in it. so i've done 18 gallons of water with 0.09 phosphate level. no wonder theres hair algae growing!

so ill run by what i was planning on doing:

since the phosphate level is down from what it was, 0.09 down to 0.03, i'll do a 6 gallon water change on friday (because I was going to change out my phosphate media and my carbon) put in the new media, then when my new filters and new di chamber comes, i'll do more water changes and then replace the phosphate media with new for a second time, that way if the first batch gets used up from the high phosphate levels now, i'll be replacing it with 100% pure, clean water...that i'll be testing more often now!! wow i feel dumb. oh well, newbie mistakes i guess.

but how does my plan sound? anybody have any advice for me other then what i've said??

 

[zoafarm]

Sounds like you isolated the phosphate issue. But I would definitely would not believe a 0 nitrate reading. I honestly don't think it would be desirable for me. I wish you the best of luck, and hope your tank thrives.

Happy Reefing