Pics of the new in wall tank build and important plumbing ?'s

[HowardCath]

That's really exciting, Angela. I got into all this when we built a house in 2000, but I had no prior aquarium experience. I just liked snorkeling and diving. Mine is in the wall with one side open to the family room and the other to the living room. (It was going to be a fireplace. I have a chimney over my aquarium.) Plumbing is limited to the sump and a utility sink below the tank. Chris at the Critter got it arranged for me. My builder had never done this before so I'm grateful it worked out. I converted from fish only to live rock about 4 years ago, but had only a few corals until about 1 1/2 years ago, so I'm still a newbie.
I hope you'll keep posting pics of the progress.

 

[NeveSSL]

WOW! Very nice, Angela!

Definitely keep this thread going. It will be a classic one day.

Brandon

 

[Siffy]

Angela,
I know others have said it, and it'll work fine. I've seen the one c_stowers was talking about that he plumbed a few years back. It's really not much different than having it directly under the tank. The horizontal runs add negligible head due to friction to the entire run if the pipe is sized correctly, and the extra drop and rise virtually cancel each other out. I've got a couple tables Wayne was asking for, and you can see why using 2" is a much better choice over 1.5" in this case. I assume you'll be in the 600-1200gph (10-20gpm) range for your return, and I think you're having that split between 2 drains to handle it.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/featurejp.htm
Tables 1 and 5 are of the most interest. There are equations there for you as well Wayne.

I'm not quite sure what Brian was trying to say about larger cross-sectional area, but 6ft of water standing in 2 pipes of different diameters is the same pressure at the same height along the pipe. The overall force or weight will be higher, but the PSI or head pressure will be identical.

And table 5 interestingly shows the 2 45s rather than 1 90 is a myth. Up sizing a pipe (within reason) will always gain you a larger increase in flow due to a decrease in friction. But in almost all cases using an extra fitting (which adds sharp areas to the wall) reduces flow by increasing friction, even switching from 1 90 to 2 45s. The loss or gain in any case isn't worth the extra work and risk of a leak.

 

[Siffy]

Oops, I meant to add, no you won't need a pressure rated pump because of the extra 20ft of horizontal plumbing on the return. But oversizing the pipe one size from what you would normally use wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[crumbletop]

Looks good, Angela!

Keep in mind you won't want to do a wave maker with the drains on both ends. I mention that just in case you are trying for a setup similar to Julie's.

 

[ocd_mariner]

Actually, a wave maker would work if the flow through the overflows wasn't too fast.

 

[c_stowers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12034544#post12034544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Siffy
And table 5 interestingly shows the 2 45s rather than 1 90 is a myth. Up sizing a pipe (within reason) will always gain you a larger increase in flow due to a decrease in friction. But in almost all cases using an extra fitting (which adds sharp areas to the wall) reduces flow by increasing friction, even switching from 1 90 to 2 45s. The loss or gain in any case isn't worth the extra work and risk of a leak.

These tables are a bad reference and the conclusions drawn by Siffy are incorrect. The tables were generated for one velocity of flow. If you look at the equations presented below (which are also ONLY a crude approximation) you will see that frictional lossed are a function of velocity squared meaning that depending on your pipe flow, one 90 or two 45's could be beneficial. Common piping fluid dynamics is a huge area for approximation and you should be REALLY careful about what tables/ formulas you use. If you want the real answer you have to go back to the navier stokes and the cauchy momentum equations. Please don't be calling anything "myths" before doing so.

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12035848#post12035848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ocd_mariner
Actually, a wave maker would work if the flow through the overflows wasn't too fast.

The problem is the up and down motion of the water on the large tank. It can be a couple of inches on the ends. I think that's why Julie got her overflow in the middle. It isn't really "bad", it just makes for more noise in the overflows.

 

[Angela Short]

Yea, I posted over on Tunze forum and was told by their rep a wave box would flood one overflow and starve the other one but could be done as long as the flow was slow enouph through the sump as to not let the overflow opposite the wave suck all the water out before the wave returned to overflow it again. Seems like to much to worry with to me so I guess its gonna be a set of streams on a controller or something like that. I just wish I could get the true wave thing going that a wave box gives you though.

BUT for now I am gonna be stuck with my rickety ol whatever to hobble along with since the house is naturally going over budget! By BY big fat tank allowance! Cory's like, You can just use your same equipment you have now can't you? I guess a little longer without a nice skimmer or a set of Tunzes will not kill me. I kinda hated to add that cost into a 30 year mortgage anyways.

I will put more pics up when we set the tank but its not even ordered yet so it will be a while.

Thanks for all the help and info guys!!

 

[waynesworld]

You could still have a center over flow in the middle and build a pillar around it to hide it and then use the all of the tank for viewing and could still use a wave maker. I tried a wave maker on a end over flow and they are not worth the problems you are better with the streams then and a multi controller. Of course my opinion as I tried that is why I have a 240 FO and a 180 Reef with wave makers.

 

[Angela Short]

yea, I think the issues with the wave box are just not gonna be worth it so it will be streams when the time comes.

I am gonna stick with the end overflows since I wanted to have the viewing area able to see through to the other room. I am sure the kids will freak the fish out peeking through at each other and laughing!! I am planning a real open rock work with tonga branch also and wishfully SPS dominant but I will seriously have to step up my tank husbandry if I want to not kill everything.

 

[NeveSSL]

FWIW, there is a Tunze controller module available for the AquaControllers that I'm pretty sure is cheaper than the actual Tunze controllers and is quite programmable I think.

Brandon