Please Help De-worming Fairy Wrasse question

[cichlidsrcool]

Thanks in advance. I am trying my hand at keeping a few Fairy Wrasse a McKoskers and a Yellow Back Fairy Wrasse. They are in a QT tank that's just a cycled tank. The Shop I deal with does a quick dip in Prazipro bath and keeps them in a system with Prazi and Copper Power. Is it a 100% guarantee that they need to be De Wormed ? If so with what ? What would be the proper course of threating? Should I automatically treat with Cupramine or Copper Power? What Therapeutic level? Should I Treat with PrazioPro? . (They are eating well Pellets and Mysis and swimming around fine No scratching). Or should I just let them be Chemical free and watch them close?. Please advise I'm new at this QT stuff.

 

[griss]

I can’t answer but I can tag @leebca and @Dr. Reef

 

[leebca]

You ask several questions. I'll try to answer each.

Is it a 100% guarantee that they need to be De Wormed ?

Although you say the Shop has done some treatment I don't know exactly what they did. I mean, what was and is the concentrations of Praziquantel and Copper they used? Sorry to reply with a question, but not knowing these it is hard to give recommendations. I will say this: Most local marine fish stores (LMFSs) don't run therapeutic levels of copper. I've not heard of any shop running Praziquantel in addition to copper. However, most likely this would not be therapeutic levels of this medicine either.

Most LMFSs just want to hold back any diseases that might show up before they sell the fish. If this is the case, then you need to consider they haven't performed any actual treatment and the fish will need to be kept in QT and treated.

Should I automatically treat with Cupramine or Copper Power?

WATCH OUT. Some wrasses are sensitive to copper. I'm not sure your wrasses can handle therapeutic levels of copper.

What Therapeutic level? Should I Treat with PrazioPro?

You need to choose which copper product you want to use. If you choose to use Cupramine, the therapeutic level is 0.5ppm copper. If you plan on using Copper Power, the therapeutic level is 2.5 ppm. You must purchase and use the Hanna Test Kit to measure copper. This is the most precise and easiest to use test kit. It takes all the subjectivity (guesswork) from testing for copper.

Should I Treat with PrazioPro?

If the Shop has been putting Praziquantel into their system and keeps it there then they have made a BIG MISTAKE. Praziquantel has an issue where it becomes less effective each time it is used. A species of bacteria grows in the tank that eats prazi as a food source. Each time it Is used, the bacteria grows more and gets better at eating it. After three treatments, it is consuming the prazi almost as fast as it is added. So after a couple of weeks of using Praziquantel in the Shop's system, it is worthless -- the Shop is just feeding the bacteria. So, using Praziquantel in your QT should be okay. Here's one plan:
If you choose to use Cupramine, you can dose Praziquantel at the same time.
If you choose to use Copper Power you first threat with this; then after this treatment you treat with Praziquantel. Use This Addition Calculator or Copper Power.

If you trust the Shop performed a proper Praziquantel treatment/dip initially, then no need to treat with PraziPro.

Or should I just let them be Chemical free and watch them close?.

This would be my advice. Watch them. BUT do treat with PraziPro as directed on the package. AND go ahead and buy the copper of your choice AND the Hanna Copper Test Kit You need to have these on hand and part of your 'fish medicine cabinet.'

Please advise I'm new at this QT stuff.

I would have thought there was a QT procedure here on this site. . .somewhere. I can write one up if it's needed, but it is a lot of work and I don't want to duplicate something that is already posted.

Lastly I can recommend reading the Fish Nutrition Post for feeding recommendations.

Ask if you have more questions.

 

[cichlidsrcool]

You ask several questions. I'll try to answer each.

Although you say the Shop has done some treatment I don't know exactly what they did. I mean, what was and is the concentrations of Praziquantel and Copper they used? Sorry to reply with a question, but not knowing these it is hard to give recommendations. I will say this: Most local marine fish stores (LMFSs) don't run therapeutic levels of copper. I've not heard of any shop running Praziquantel in addition to copper. However, most likely this would not be therapeutic levels of this medicine either.

Most LMFSs just want to hold back any diseases that might show up before they sell the fish. If this is the case, then you need to consider they haven't performed any actual treatment and the fish will need to be kept in QT and treated.


WATCH OUT. Some wrasses are sensitive to copper. I'm not sure your wrasses can handle therapeutic levels of copper.

You need to choose which copper product you want to use. If you choose to use Cupramine, the therapeutic level is 0.05 copper. If you plan on using Copper Power, the therapeutic level is 2.5 ppm. You must purchase and use the Hanna Low Level Copper Test Kit to measure copper. This is the most precise and easiest to use test kit. It takes all the subjectivity (guesswork) from testing for copper.

If the Shop has been putting Praziquantel into their system and keeps it there then they have made a BIG MISTAKE. Praziquantel has an issue where it becomes less effective each time it is used. A species of bacteria grows in the tank that eats prazi as a food source. Each time it Is used, the bacteria grows more and gets better at eating it. After three treatments, it is consuming the prazi almost as fast as it is added. So after a couple of weeks of using Praziquantel in the Shop's system, it is worthless -- the Shop is just feeding the bacteria. So, using Praziquantel in your QT should be okay. Here's one plan:
If you choose to use Cupramine, you can dose Praziquantel at the same time.
If you choose to use Copper Power you first threat with this; then after this treatment you treat with Praziquantel. Use This Addition Calculator or Copper Power.

If you trust the Shop performed a proper Praziquantel treatment/dip initially, then no need to treat with PraziPro.

This would be my advice. Watch them. BUT do treat with PraziPro as directed on the package. AND go ahead and buy the copper of your choice AND the Hanna Copper Test Kit. You need to have these on hand and part of your 'fish medicine cabinet.'

I would have thought there was a QT procedure here on this site. . .somewhere. I can write one up if it's needed, but it is a lot of work and I don't want to duplicate something that is already posted.

Lastly I can recommend reading the Fish Nutrition Post for feeding recommendations.

Ask if you have more questions.

Thank you.
As of right now I have treated nothing just observing. They are eating very well. been feeding New Life Spectrum pellets and Mysis and Brine. As you mentioned having not really seen what the LFS is doing. I don't trust that things are done correctly. So as a bare Minimum you would dose the PraziPro 1st and hold off on the CopperPower or Cupramine and do it 2nd ? What about internal parasites (worms)? In your opinion what is gentler CopperPower(Chelated copper) or Cupramine(Ionic)?

 

[leebca]

So as a bare Minimum you would dose the PraziPro 1st and hold off on the CopperPower or Cupramine and do it 2nd ?

Yes. Just be aware that wrasses are/can be copper sensitive.

What about internal parasites (worms)?

There are many internal parasites that exist. As hobbyists, we have medications that only address a small group of them. If you want to be prepared for this possibility, add Metroplex to your fish medicine cabinet. The Praziquantel treatment should also help eliminate some internal worms/flukes.

In your opinion what is gentler CopperPower(Chelated copper) or Cupramine(Ionic)?

First. . .The proper Hanna Copper Test Kit is their High Range Copper Test Kit. I recommend the chelated copper products (Copper Power or Coppersafe). Of these two, I prefer Coppersafe. The therapeutic level for Coppersafe is 2.0ppm of copper. Also note that the copper concentration can start at 1.0ppm. After that, increase the copper concentration slowly on all marine fishes. It should take at least 2 days to reach therapeutic levels of copper.

 

[leebca]

dose the PraziPro

When dosing with Praziquantel it needs to be noted that this medicine interferes with the oxygen in the water. So when dosing with Praziquantel, one (little air pump & tubing) air stone/diffuser must be running for every 15 gallons of QT water. It is very important to keep the water's surface moving and the running airstone will do this.

 

[cichlidsrcool]

Yes. Just be aware that wrasses are/can be copper sensitive.

There are many internal parasites that exist. As hobbyists, we have medications that only address a small group of them. If you want to be prepared for this possibility, add Metroplex to your fish medicine cabinet. The Praziquantel treatment should also help eliminate some internal worms/flukes.

First. . .The proper Hanna Copper Test Kit is their High Range Copper Test Kit. I recommend the chelated copper products (Copper Power or Coppersafe). Of these two, I prefer Coppersafe. The therapeutic level for Coppersafe is 2.0ppm of copper. Also note that the copper concentration can start at 1.0ppm. After that, increase the copper concentration slowly on all marine fishes. It should take at least 2 days to reach therapeutic levels of copper.

Thank you. No matter what I will proceed with caution When I start the

When dosing with Praziquantel it needs to be noted that this medicine interferes with the oxygen in the water. So when dosing with Praziquantel, one (little air pump & tubing) air stone/diffuser must be running for every 15 gallons of QT water. It is very important to keep the water's surface moving and the running airstone will do this.

I tried to attach video but it won't let me. See attached pic.

Excuse the messy QT Tank. I am running a H.O.B filter. So I keep the tank water level several inches low so that the return keeps the water surface agitated and moving very well. You think that's enough surface agitation?

 

[cichlidsrcool]

Thank you. No matter what I will proceed with caution When I start the

I tried to attach video but it won't let me. See attached pic. View attachment 32381736 Excuse the messy QT Tank. I am running a H.O.B filter. So I keep the tank water level several inches low so that the return keeps the water surface agitated and moving very well. You think that's enough surface agitation?

When dosing with Praziquantel it needs to be noted that this medicine interferes with the oxygen in the water. So when dosing with Praziquantel, one (little air pump & tubing) air stone/diffuser must be running for every 15 gallons of QT water. It is very important to keep the water's surface moving and the running airstone will do this.

Thank you. No matter what I will proceed with caution When I start the PraziPro

 

[leebca]

I tried to attach video but it won't let me.

You can take a longish video of 1+ min and then upload it on YouTube. Then post a link to that video here in the forum.

You think that's enough surface agitation?

Yes. I would put the aerator stone closer to the bottom of the tank.

When you add PraziPro (Praziquantel) the fish might slow down their eating or even stop eating. This is more or less to be expected. A healthy fish can live a couple of weeks without eating.

Keep checking for Ammonia and Nitrites during treatment. Be prepared to quickly remove Praziquantel from the water -- have aged saltwater standing by for a large (75%) water change and carbon.

 

[cichlidsrcool]

Thanks for all your help. I did start 1st round of PraziPro yesterday and have enough aged water to do a 33% water change using water from my Display Tank. I take water from the Display and use to replace water in QT and put New SW in display Tank. I will make more water to be able to do a larger water change if needed. They are both eating Pellets and Mysis so at least they are eating. Thats 1/2 the battle

 

[leebca]

using water from my Display Tank.

I have a concern about doing this. Are you sure there are no parasites or problems in the DT?

 

[cichlidsrcool]

I have a concern about doing this. Are you sure there are no parasites or problems in the DT?

Display seems free of anything. Fish are all ok and have been in display for what appears disease free for over 6 months. How else would you know? Please advise. Thank you

 

[cichlidsrcool]

Is it best to just change water in QT with new aged SW?

 

[leebca]

How else would you know? Please advise. Thank you

Some flukes/worms may take months to finally overcome their fish host. Everything would seem fine until the fish stops eating and wastes away. So bringing water from the DT to add to the QT may carry parasites. In addition, the DT water is 'used water' in the sense it may contain depleted ingredients/trace elements. Then the 'used water' may also contain high nitrates or other products that freshly made saltwater wouldn't. Using DT water for the QT is really not recommended.

Is it best to just change water in QT with new aged SW?

Absolutely.

 

[cichlidsrcool]

I understand. Just thought that maybe that most parameters would be gentler than all Fresh SW. The fish seem to be doing fine so far. they are eating well. Couple more days and I will change out water. Thanks again for all your help

 

[leebca]

The fish seem to be doing fine so far.

Good to hear. Keep us informed on your progress. Good luck!

 

[cichlidsrcool]

I will... Thanks.. Last question . Your persona experience/opinion. Should I automatically treat copper? I have both Cupramine and CopperPower. Whats your opinion on that again? Thanks again

 

[leebca]

Should I automatically treat copper?

It's called "Chemoprophylaxis." Treating when there is no indication of disease. This is opposed to just observe, wait and see. The problems with the 'just-observe-and-wait-and-see approach' are at least three-fold.
1. It requires a close eye on the fish (Many hobbyists don't have the time to do this effectively and diligently)
2. It requires a good judge of there being something wrong with the fish (Most new hobbyists can't do this very well)
3. Too many fish are coming through 'the system' with diseases (Can't 'fight the system')

It is prudent, IMHO to treat all newly acquired fish with copper IF they are not sensitive to a copper treatment. I am doing a write-up for a copper treatment and should be finished with it today or tomorrow. It will explain more.

I have both Cupramine and CopperPower. Whats your opinion on that again?

Copper Power. I prefer hobbyists use a chelated copper product.

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You're welcome.

 

[leebca]

My recommended Copper Treatment Procedure can be found by clicking on the link.