Please.....help me fix my brain

[berniechip]

Hi everybody,

Since I started reading these BB's about a month ago I have learned very much. I have also learned that in the future I will learn first and buy later. There is so much I don't know and I am looking to you guys for help. I trust your experience and hope you won't be too hard on me if I'm doing something wrong. I have been trying to read all I possibly can, but still can't find all the answers to my questions. Well here goes.
My green open brain looks terrible. It started, by slightly coming off the skeleton and it was not opening up. After about a week it started to open up again (it was still somewhat peeeling off the skeleton). It then looked very good for about a week. I thought maybe it was getting better. But now it looks really bad again. The one side is rotting away right where it (used to) connect. I hope it's not too late. I would have asked sooner but I thought it was getting better. I would never do anything wrong intentionally so please.....what am I doing wrong. I also have quite a bit of green algae.
I have a 55gal, 60 lbs. live rock, 2 in. argonite, VHO lights
salinity 1.024
PH 8.2
Alk 3.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite .1
Nitrate 0
Phosphate (depends which test kit I use, Red Sea is 1.0 and seachem is 2.25)
calcium 600 (seems high but same results with 2 test kits)
silicate 0
Is there something else I should be testing?
I just ordered a RO/DI unit but it hasn't arrived yet. I have been using tap water, could this be my biggest problem. I also thing my hydrometer is inaccurate (it is a plastic one). I have a new glass Tropic Marin one arriving today.
Currently my brain is sitting about 1/3 of the way down in the tank. Should I move him, or will this cause him further stress.
I really want to save the poor guy. Or is it too late
Thanks and sorry about being so long
Bernie

 

[FOX]

The tap water would certainly be my biggest suspicion. There are many heavy metals in tap water that are toxic to corals. Copper is the most likely one to cause problems if it's high in your tap water. I'd get that ro/di working quick and do some large water changes to dilute anything in the water that may be caused problems. If the tissue is all ready separating fromt he skeleton, it may be too late for this peice.

FOX

 

[Staceon]

My situation sounds very familer to yours. I too thought everything was right, I than found out about the tap water. It was the source of my problems, it may be ours too. I have heard that you can use distilled water from a grocery store if you dont access to R/O water. Furthermore, what trace elemements are you adding and how often?

 

[berniechip]

Hi,

oops I forgot to mention my copper, I thought I listed everything. Yes I do have detectable copper .15 ppm. I know any amount is bad. I can't seem to remove this stuff. I have a air stone skimmer (Ron's saltwter Heaven made it) and have tried added Phos-zorb and chemi-pure bags to the filter (not at the same time). Yet I still have detectable phosphate and copper. Which is why I ordered the RO/DI unit. Should be here any day now (hopefully today). How big of a water change do you suggest, FOX.
Staceon, the only thing I am adding right now is Seachem calcium, Coralife liquid gold plus, and occasionally Coralife iron supplement (I was told this would help with coralline algae growth).

 

[berniechip]

Well UPS just came and no RO/DI. I did get my hydrometer but it's cracked. It's just not my day.

Staceon I don't know anyone with "healthy reefs". One guy I know has one which isn't doing so good (worse than mine). The LFS doesn't help either. I live in Scranton, PA and most people don't even know what a reef tank is. This is why I turn to the BB's.

And Ignatz BTW (By the way ) There is one spot with a brown substance on it but not all over. Besides for where it is receeding the rest of the tissue on the brain looks normal. It even tries to open and looks a little strange like its going to fall off. Looks like a fat person who dieted too quick and now there is excess skin flapping around (for lack of a better analogy )

I posted this on a different board and they suggested moving it farther away from the light. What do ya think?

Thanks everybody, wish you all lived in Scranton

[This message has been edited by berniechip (edited 01-11-2000).]

 

[ignatz]

berniechip,

I can tell you what I would do, but I will warn you it is for extreme cases of brown jelly infection (aka protozoan infection). I can't tell if that is what you have or not, but what you are describing doesn't rule it out. Please, please, please before trying what I am going to type, post a pciture of the brain so that others can take a look and give their opinion.

That said, there are two courses of action. The first is to dip the coral in a small container with salt water, and a concentrated dose of Lugol's solution. Lugol's solution is a basically a strong iodine solution, and should kill the infection. I have never tried this, but during a discussion of whether to dose iodine or not, someone (on another board) pointed out iodine anti-septic nature and reported havign success with this treatment. The second is what was reccommended to me when my brain was on the way out. I did not try it, because by the time I knew what to do it was too late. This is a very extreme course of action. The basic idea is to cut away all the infected tissue, and use tin snips to remove the skeleton that has been revealed. The idea is the same in both, kill the infection, then let nature take its course. I want to stress again, that these are extreme measues only to be taken when you are sure you have a protozaon attack, and then at your own risk.

 

[Minotaur15]

Bernie,

I think those corallife supplements are quite unnecessary and you are just wasting money buying them. Coralline algae will grow fine if given enough Ca/Alk and light.

Was your tank ever a FO and treated with copper? Copper can attach/leach into your tank walls if it was ever used there. This will cause long term problems cause it will remain toxic causing you continued problems. But, its also very likely you are getting it from the tap. Biggest thing you need to work on immediately is getting that RO/DI in service

HTH some,

Dan

 

[FOX]

Unless you added a copper treatment to treat a sick fish,(which I'm sure you know is not a good idea to add to a display tank) the copper must be coming from the tap water. So every time you add water to replace evaporation or do a water change, you're adding copper. All the poly filter and absorbing media in the world won't do any good if you keep adding it back in. That's more than likely at least part of the cause of your open brains problems. I would do a series of about 35-30% water changes. I'd probably do one every other day for a week and then test the copper level. If you have fish in the tank, make sure you let the water mix for at least 24 hours before adding it to the tank. IMO, the supplement you need to worry about is calcium. The others will be taken care of with regular water changes. They're probably not hurting, but water changes will keep everything where it should be.

FOX

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[berniechip]

Dan, what's HTH some mean?

I have never added copper, so it must be coming from the water. I have heard that if there is copper lines you could pick it up from there. I keep looking out my window for the UPS guy. As soon as my RO/DI gets here, I'll set it up and prepare for a water change. I have been doing frequent water changes (about 2 a week, around 20%) thinking it would help, but maybe since my water isn't that great, I might be doing more harm than good.
In the mean time is there any hope for my brain. Should I try moving him? Can he recover? The poor thing, I feel so helpless.

 

[FOX]

HTH=Hope This Helps.

Without seeing your open brain, it's kind of difficult to say wether it can survive this or not.

FOX

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[Staceon]

Bernie,

Do you have any friends with healthy reef tanks? Maybe you could have some of thier water? I really think you need to get the brain out of that water. Get him into a tank by himself. Maybe use the water that is used to replace the 20% that you have been using. Put a small heater in there, with lighting, and get the two tanks similar in these regards. I know that hopeless feeling, but it may already be too late. Look at the bright side, you may have saved yourself a lot of time and money by figuring this out now, good luck amigo.

 

[ignatz]

berniechip,

HTH = Hope this helps, and I do BTW ...

The first thing I would do is get a PolyFilter. The stuff is EPA approved to remove things like copper from water, or so they say. I would use this to get the copper out of my tank. A Brita water filter will also remove 99.99% of copper from the water. I would run my makeup water through a Brita or a PolyFilter The RO/DI is the ultimate solution, but the PolyFilter will work in the mean time.

The Open Brain problem is a bit tougher. I lost one and it went the same way. I found out later what the proper method of treatment is. I have a couple of questions: Is the brain covered with a brown jelly like substance close to the places where it is coming off the skeleton? How many mouths does the brain have, and is one uneffected?

LMK

~ignatz

 

[horge]

The situation as described doesn't seem to quite match up with copper poisoning as I've had to deal with in the past (Man, that was over a decade ago!). But then no two tanks are the same...

Copper aside, the high Ca++ worries me, and has implications that reach down to the nutritional and possibly autoimmune level.

A pic would be real helpful. I'll wait. But for the time being, ensuring a copper-free environment it is, for the time being.

Good luck, Berniechip.

 

[FishWish]

Berniechip, You/ve been given great advise and you may be a little confused as to which way to turn first,I would recap IMO the things you can do here. Of course its difficult to say whether or not your Brain is suffering from RTN or not with out a pic, but whatever its got, it ain't good.

Definatly invoke an R.O sys. ASAP
Immediatly add several Polyfilters into the mainstream to absorb Cu.
Stop dosing Ca. supplements, Ca is way high.
Buy store bought water and do a 50% change ASAP.
Stop wasting your $$ on junk hydrometers and buy a good refractometer, in the long run its a much better investment and will pay for itself.
The Lugols dip sounds like a good idea to me, I also dip with Tetra D, I've had good luck with this in the past.
Stop stressing out over all of this and give yourself credit for trying to do the right thing and ask for help.
Try not to let all of this info. overwhelm you , we've all been there, and we've all lost pieces..cheer up..look at all of the new friends you've made...TTYL..David

 

[Reef Junkie]

Horge,
That high Calcium sticks out like a sore thumb! What's up with that? Hopefully it's a fluke from the test kits or maybe you have elevated levels of another chemical. Did you say whether or not you're adding Strontium?
Iggy,
You're right about the dip. I just went through this with a buddy and we saved a beautiful Pagoda coral. It was receding and coming off the skeleton. First, we took the coral out of the water and broke off the dead parts just beyond the healthy tissue. Next in one gallon of Aquarium water, dipped the coral with Lugol's Iodine. Directions for this are... One gallon of Aquarium water, 6 to 10 drops of Lugols Iodine for 7 to 10 minutes. It has to be Lugol's, otherwise you're wasting your time. I've found Tectra-D to work also and it's not as hazardous. It's not usually recommended for Lugol's, but definitely, when you discard the dip water after the dip. Treat it with a capfull or a little more of Bleach. This ensures no super resistent bacteria enter our water ways and is just plain responsible. Anyhow, the coral that we broke up and dipped has grown over the bare skeleton and is growing nicely. If you have any other questions about treatment, I'll do my best to help.
BTW,HTH and TTYL.
Bill

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[IronLung]

i had a similar experiance a while ago....i was losing hope and almost gave the brain away...i stuck with it and the most important thing i did was to keep the area of deterioration free from algae especially hair algae...since u r using tap water i'm sure u r having this dilemna...so when your ro comes do as everyone says and get that puppy working...keep the brain in a flow that is moderate....whenever i saw any type of buildup near the receding tissue i would take a turkey baster or feeding syringe and blow the area clean..just make sure the area of recession has a chance to heal and not be contantly bothered by algea...

let us know how things progress

GL,
mike

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[berniechip]

Hi,

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. Its been a few days and the brain doesn't look any worse. It has been opening up more than it had been. Since it is looking somewhat better I'm going to hold off on doing anything drastic. My RO will be here tomarrow, there was a holdup at UPS, called Friday. As soon as I get it I'm going to make up some water and do a big water change. I haven't been adding any calcium. I will be doing all my tests tonight. I also have been keeping any algae that appears (and yes I do have green algae) off of the exposed areas. I'll keep you posted on how he's doing.
Thanks again
Bernie