Plumbing help for 225g Reef

[RacerX308e]

I recently purchased a 225g acrylic tank from a downsizing reefer. The plan for the tank is an SPS/clam tank trying to primarily use all my parts and pieces from other tanks for the time being. Long term goal is a fish room in the basement underneath with large sump, grow out tanks and the like, but for now, I need to have everything self contained. (Don't tell my wife about the fish room!)

The tank has never been used so the seller had little idea on how to plumb it so I am trying to get some ideas on what best to do. The tank came with a center overflow with a 2'' bulhead. The overflow measures 8'' across by 5'' deep. The bulkhead is dead bang in the middle so there is no way to add a return up though the overflow like I did on my last 55 cube. The tank has two one inch holes in each top corner presumably for returns.

I have not determined what sump I will use as I have several from other tanks. I also have my 75g AGA that I just broke down that I am considering installing baffles and using if the space under the tank works out. (If I need to use my JBJ chiller, I might not have the space. I also have a battery backup that would be nice to run some powerheads through as some insurance against power failure.) I want an external pump and I have a Reeflo Snapper Hybrid (SNAPPER Flow @ 4' = 1900 gph/DART converted Flow @ 4' = 3000gph) now.

I am looking for any help or thoughts I can get, but here are some questions I have now:

1. What type of flow from the main returns would I want? I have been out of the hobby for a while but I recall folks wanting from 6-10 times turnover through the sump to allow the skimmer to work. At 1900 gph on the Snapper, that would give me 8.5 or so but 13 or so with the Dart mod.)

2. For either the 1900 or 3000 flow, will the one center flow overflow with the 2'' bulkhead handle the flow?

3. I have read the Herbie thread (at least parts of it) and it seems folks like this type of system but it doesn't look like I can do it here. So I am looking at Durso's to control noise (my wife actually likes some water noise.) Is there anything else I should consider?

4. Other flow-- would love to do some Tunze streams down the road but they sure are pricey. Other less expensive thoughs on extra flow and how much more should I shoot for beyond the returns?

5. Leak protection? I have always used the sump capacity to handle the tank if the return pump fails. Is there anything else I should consider? I just put in new hardwoods and my wife would kill me if the tank had a malfunction and ruined the floors. Knock on wood, I have never had a flood, but want to add all safeguards possible against this.

6. I plan on using hard PVC for the plumbing as I have had good luck with it in the past. From experience, I intend to use a lots of ball valve and true unions to allow isolation of the tank from the sump as well as easy pump maintenance.

5. I probably won't be able to do an ATO until the fish room. With a closed canopy, does anyone have any thoughts on evaporation. My 75g was about a gallon a day so does 3 gallons a day sound about what to expect?

Any other thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[zmckenzie]

You shouldn't limit yourself with the holes you have. It wouldn't be hard to drill your tank. I would love to see pictures of the tank to see where the holes are.

 

[joebo1717]

I am looking for any help or thoughts I can get, but here are some questions I have now:

1. What type of flow from the main returns would I want? I have been out of the hobby for a while but I recall folks wanting from 6-10 times turnover through the sump to allow the skimmer to work. At 1900 gph on the Snapper, that would give me 8.5 or so but 13 or so with the Dart mod.)
Best practice is to match your flow to the skimmer, general rule of thumb is 4 to 5x system volume (225 tank less rock/sand, 30ish gal in 75 gal sump right around 250 total volume) so the 1900gph snapper with head loss should match well

2. For either the 1900 or 3000 flow, will the one center flow overflow with the 2'' bulkhead handle the flow?
Does the internal size of the overflow box allow any room to drill another hole? Even if you can fit a 1" or 3/4" bulk head in there it will give you some room for error. 2" should be plenty to handle the snapper and not have to much worry about clogging. Use a true union gate valve schd 80 if possible as they have the best life and turn really easy to control the output of your pump. The other thing you can do is add a Tee off the pump line that runs back into the sump with a valve on it. Adjusting that will keep you from putting back pressure on the pump and control how much flow goes to the display vs sump. These extra tees can be hand to hook up chillers, reactors, ect.

3. I have read the Herbie thread (at least parts of it) and it seems folks like this type of system but it doesn't look like I can do it here. So I am looking at Durso's to control noise (my wife actually likes some water noise.) Is there anything else I should consider?
Durso is your best bet for this
4. Other flow-- would love to do some Tunze streams down the road but they sure are pricey. Other less expensive thoughs on extra flow and how much more should I shoot for beyond the returns?
The returns should not really be calculated in your system flow. The idea of the returns/drain is to run water through your filtration system and years of study have shown that slower is better because it allows more contact time. There are a number of great options for in tank water movement these days and with a tank your size and sps/clam stocking lists you'll need to do your research on what you can afford. Most people with very successful tanks will run between 15x to 60x in tank turnover for SPS tanks. A simple closed loop minus the oceans motions device would give you a very high dollar to gph ratio. Many people use the dart for Closed Loop Systems, consider buying a better matched return pump for your system and put the dart/snapper in service for your closed loop. I'm a fan of powerheads because you can move them around the tank as your needs require but as a starting point the CL will work, you have the dart, plumbing is cheap and a new return pump will be <$200 (mag 18/24). 2x tunze or vortech are going to be $700 to $1000

5. Leak protection? I have always used the sump capacity to handle the tank if the return pump fails. Is there anything else I should consider? I just put in new hardwoods and my wife would kill me if the tank had a malfunction and ruined the floors. Knock on wood, I have never had a flood, but want to add all safeguards possible against this.
I've seen tanks with pond liner in the cabinet to catch leeks and hold water in the event of overflows

6. I plan on using hard PVC for the plumbing as I have had good luck with it in the past. From experience, I intend to use a lots of ball valve and true unions to allow isolation of the tank from the sump as well as easy pump maintenance.
Good choice, many people will add the flex pvc to areas that would require 90's or 45's to cut down on head loss. In your case maybe a run to get out from under your stand and going vertical to the return lines near the top/back of the tank.

5. I probably won't be able to do an ATO until the fish room. With a closed canopy, does anyone have any thoughts on evaporation. My 75g was about a gallon a day so does 3 gallons a day sound about what to expect?
I use a 75 gal for my my sump as well and it's plenty big. Consider adding a chamber in the sump tank that can be closed off to reduce evaporation and use that as an area to hold top off water. There are a few neat in sump top offs i've seen on the board that work the same way those water bowls for cats/dogs work with the water bottle attached. Cool thing is while building the sump you can add this in and it will save you a few dollars on the pump/float switch type of ato

Any other thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[RacerX308e]

Thanks both for the replies. I will read yours closely Jobo. I snapped a few pics to better show what I have to work with.

 

[Indymann99]

I am looking for any help or thoughts I can get, but here are some questions I have now:

1. What type of flow from the main returns would I want? I have been out of the hobby for a while but I recall folks wanting from 6-10 times turnover through the sump to allow the skimmer to work. At 1900 gph on the Snapper, that would give me 8.5 or so but 13 or so with the Dart mod.)

I subscribe to the slower flow (4-6x) through the sump methodology, but thats just me. I have a Mag 9.5 for my return pump. Add powerheads in the tank for DT circulation.

2. For either the 1900 or 3000 flow, will the one center flow overflow with the 2'' bulkhead handle the flow?

3. I have read the Herbie thread (at least parts of it) and it seems folks like this type of system but it doesn't look like I can do it here. So I am looking at Durso's to control noise (my wife actually likes some water noise.) Is there anything else I should consider?

I run a Herbie, but Durso drain designs are well proven, if you dont mind the noise.

4. Other flow-- would love to do some Tunze streams down the road but they sure are pricey. Other less expensive thoughs on extra flow and how much more should I shoot for beyond the returns?

I have Korolia powerheads and they seem to work well (they are a bit big in the tank). 2x K4 and 1x K3

5. Leak protection? I have always used the sump capacity to handle the tank if the return pump fails. Is there anything else I should consider? I just put in new hardwoods and my wife would kill me if the tank had a malfunction and ruined the floors. Knock on wood, I have never had a flood, but want to add all safeguards possible against this.

Sump capacity is critical to keeping water where it should be. combined with anti-siphon holes on the returns (or returns placed at the surface - I do this for added surface agitation).

6. I plan on using hard PVC for the plumbing as I have had good luck with it in the past. From experience, I intend to use a lots of ball valve and true unions to allow isolation of the tank from the sump as well as easy pump maintenance.

5. I probably won't be able to do an ATO until the fish room. With a closed canopy, does anyone have any thoughts on evaporation. My 75g was about a gallon a day so does 3 gallons a day sound about what to expect?

My 120g with 45g sump evaps about 1-2g per day. I would see if you can get a ATO in the stand. I have to fill mine every 3-4 days but that is MUCH better than every day and I can go on travel for 5 days with only a small rise in SG.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help.

Comments in the quote above.

If you are new to Indy lookup Premium Aquatics on the south side. They have walk in hrs on Sat. Good LR

http://s300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10/Indymann99/?action=view&current=SNC00194.mp4

 

[RacerX308e]

Thank you for the pics IndyMann. I will study them. And very nice tank btw.

And I do know the folks at Premium pretty well and I harass Jeremy often! He helped me a lot with my last build and saved a bunch of money over the LFS. They also found me this tank.

 

[joebo1717]

For awhile I used the black tube you see as the excess water flow from the pump into the sump, it now feeds a refugium. You can also see how much extra space I have in this sump. The area where the live rock currently is could be used as the pump return chamber and the next 12" of sump could have been built to hold top off water. This sump was once under my stand and I would have loved it that way then, now that it's in the basement and I have room it does not make that much of a difference.

 

[RacerX308e]

Bump for any more thoughts.

Also, the return holes are 1.5 inches and not 1.

A bit nervous about a closed loop and looking at Koralia EVO1400's for additional flow.

 

[RacerX308e]

With the Big Al's sale, I purchased 4 Koralia EVO1400's for in tank flow. Can't beat $20 each! Still working out the details of the sump and plumbing and will post details in the build thread when I get some things worked out.