Plumbing Help - Too much flow through sump/microbubbles

[Logzor]

There is way too much flow going through my sump. I run an ehiem 1260 in my 90g reef with a 30g sump. I believe my plumbing is an issue and that it is causing microbubbles. Can I solve this by slowing the flow and re-plumbing? If so, how?

Below details the systems:

My ehiem is hooked up to 3/4" flexible pvc which connects to the bottom of my tank. I am not sure what size of normal pvc pipe it is connected to. It is big enough such that the 3/4" flexible pvc can wrap snugly around it (1/2"?)

A major problem, I believe, is that my water enters the sump underwater. When I first set up the tank (plumbing from a previous owner) the water was splashing in because the pipe was 1-2" above the sump water level. I rigged some 3/4" flexible into the 1" pvc pipe (with aquamend) so the water would enter several inches under the sump water level. The water still gushes out and creates lots of bubbles.

How can I re-plumb this? Should I use some kind of ball valve? What pieces would I need to hook this system up?

How can I fix the issue of the water entering the sump? The pvc is literally sawed off. Can I still connect piping to this?

I have very little experience plumbing. Any details on pipe sizes, etc would be extremely helpful.

 

[THE ROOK]

A 1260 is certainly not too much flow but you can get a ball valve with barb fittings & place between the pump & the tank to slow the flow.

Pics of your sump & plumbing would help us spot an issue.

 

[jhoff]

You can also try a filter sock that will reduce the bubbles entering the sump

 

[Tigé21v]

Filter sock would definitely help, probably cure the problem if placed properly. The tradeoff is needing to clean it constantly, every few days at the most.
Bubble traps help, as does a big clump of chaeto.

 

[das75]

I used to run 2000gph through a 75g sump. Dealt with micro-bubble with a bubble tower, foam pad over the pump inlet and a filter sock. Believe though the 100 micron filter sock helped the most.

 

[james3370]

i plan on taking 2 pieces of glass about 4" wide & about 1" short of my sump height & mount them in the corner raised off the bottom of the tank. fill them w/ rubble rock which should break up the bubbles & the water will flow out the bottom

 

[Logzor]

I will try and get some pictures of the system. When the water enters the sump it really gushes in, enough so that it almost flows over the baffles. It seems like enough water can not get out fast enough. I have strategically placed some foam and that has helped a lot.

In the sump I have the normal setup of baffles, chaeto, etc.

Is it a major issue having the water entering the sump under water?

Where is a good place to get filterbags? I found a site called filterbags.com but it was hard to find what I needed and you have to order in bulk.

 

[DarG]

I flow over 900 GPH (after losses) through a non divided 27 gallon sump (temporary until larger system is up and running) ... 90 gallon display. I have that much flow because of the chiller requirements. A larger 100 micron filter sock (changed out atleast 2 x per week) stops all microbubbles as well as quieting much of the splashing noise. The sock does not contribute to a nitrate issue if it is replaced frequently.

Filter sock may be the simplest solution to implement depending on your sump configuration.

 

[THE ROOK]

My drain has been underwater for nearly a year without any problems.

Filterbags would probably be a good place as you can get about 25 for the cost of 5-7 regular ones. But you may want to just purchase a single filter sock to see if it does what you want.

If you have a baffled sump then you should not need a sock. It should be an option for you. My sump is a simple design that is split into 3 sections. I do not run socks anymore & have no issues with microbubbles.

 

[Logzor]

A filter sock does sound like a good option.

I am confused by the configuration on filterbags.com. I am not sure what materials I need.

Can someone link me to a 100 micron configured filter bag from that site? I am not sure what materials to use. I think I need a size 4.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14996590#post14996590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Logzor
A filter sock does sound like a good option.

I am confused by the configuration on filterbags.com. I am not sure what materials I need.

Can someone link me to a 100 micron configured filter bag from that site? I am not sure what materials to use. I think I need a size 4.

I dont order from there. But the size 4 is the 4" diameter bag. I use the X100's which are 6" diameter by 20" long. Personally, I would use the larger bags if you have the space. Depending on what is going on in the tank, even my X100 bags have overflowed in as little as 2 days. So I personally prefer the larger bags. But many reefers use the 4" bags. I have also tried the monofilament mesh bags. But I prefer the felt bags. I believe that the ones I use are polypropylene felt but polyester felt should be fine as well. Some like the mono mesh better. So you have lots of choices. All I can do is add my 2 cents on my preferences.

 

[jhoff]

I use 4" felt. Wich ever one you deside on make sure you get at least 5 so you will alawys have a clean one on hand.

 

[dj9264]

Have you heard of eductors? They are an easy way of increasing flow in the tank while decreasing the flow though your sump. This is an option using the 1260 which handles a head better than even the 1262.

 

[Logzor]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15005754#post15005754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dj9264
Have you heard of eductors? They are an easy way of increasing flow in the tank while decreasing the flow though your sump. This is an option using the 1260 which handles a head better than even the 1262.

I have not. Could you explain this to me please?

. . .

I was able to find what I think to be a 250 micro filter bag. I placed this over my sump drain. If anything it just made smaller bubbles.

I placed some thick foam around my return pump. I really do not see that many microbubbles making it that far.

Could a major issue be that the water is coming through a 1" pipe and suddenly hits a 3/4" tube?

I have no plumbing experience. What is the best way to attach a pvc pipe to an existing piece of 1" pvc? The end was sawed off so it is not very clean. I would like to remove the 3/4" tubing and replace it with a 1" pvc pipe that goes straight down. The tubing curves slighting which nearly enough to push water OVER my baffles.

Another consideration is my return. Is there any way for a return to cause microbubbles? My pump is the ehiem 1260. It has been in there maybe 3 months so I doubt there is much calcification around the prop.

 

[DarG]

250 micron isnt fine enough. 100 micron is a better choice.

For the 1" PVC you can get a 1" slip x slip coupler which slips over the cut end of the pipe and allows you to add another length of 1" PVC to extend the pipe. If you are going to allow the drain to empty underwater, you could end up backing up the overflow. You may need to vent the drain pipe in that case ... google "reverse durso" .

Reverse durso can quiet the water as it dumps into the sump but not get rid of the microbubbles that are accumulating from air mixing with the water from the overflow and down to the sump.
Reverse Durso that empties into a seperate container that is placed inside the sump (with holes drilled around the bottom of the container to allow the water draining into the container to then flow into the sump) has had some reports of helping to reduce microbubbles. I can see this possibly working if the water exiting the reverse durso piping is directed to flow upwards first allowing atleast some of the microbubbles to dissipate before the water exits into the sump through the holes at the bottom of the container. This is just in theory, I havent tried it.

Reducing flow into the sump can help decrease or possibly eliminate microbubbles.

Building a bubble trap may help reduce or could eliminate microbubbles.

And, the filter sock can eliminate the microbubbles (100 micron takes care of all of my microbubbles).

Im sure I probably missed a couple.

Chances are the return pump is only pumping bubbles back into the tank that it is picking up from the sump. If there is an air leak in the return plumbing somewhere, it could cause a venturi effect which could draw air into the return plumbing. Aside from that, it probably isnt the return pump or the return plumbing.

Again, of all these ... the sock is possibly the easiest to implement into an existing sump. Has pros and cons. 100 micron should do the trick. Pros ... keeps sump clean by grabbing sediment and detritus. Takes care of the microbubbles. Can be cleaned and reused. Last a long time so expense isnt very high.
Cons ... need to be changed frequently ... 2 - 3 x per week (IMO) so nitrates cant become an issue. Need to be cleaned which adds to maint. But not a major issue if you have a bunch of the filter socks as you can throw them in the washing machine with bleach ( NO DETERGENT) after you accumulate a bunch of dirty socks. Some just spray off with hose and nozzle but I think the bleach is better way to go (especially in washing machine). Disinfects everything and opens clogged "pores".

I rotate over 2 dozen filter socks and wash in machine when my dirty sock bin is full ... maybe every 5 - 6 weeks. Long wash cycle with bleach and then 2 rinse cycles. No problems in 2 years or so.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[Logzor]

Thanks for the info. That is exactly what I need to know.

Do I need any kind of adhesive for putting the PVC together?

Will a reverse durso quiet down my drain? The main reason why I have the tubing under water is because it is extremely loud if it is above the water line.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15010034#post15010034 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Logzor
Thanks for the info. That is exactly what I need to know.

Do I need any kind of adhesive for putting the PVC together?

Will a reverse durso quiet down my drain? The main reason why I have the tubing under water is because it is extremely loud if it is above the water line.

You shouldnt need any pvc cement since any leaks will just drip into the sump. I would Only use the cement if making a connection that could leak outside of the tank or sump.

Reverse durso will quiet the water entering the sump (splashing etc), I dont believe it will quiet gurgling or flushing noises contributed to the overflow. You can implement a regular durso standpipe at the overflow drain. Or some other method ... "Herbie" etc.

 

[Logzor]

I currently have a durso standpipe in my overflow. It is nearly silent.

I could not find a good picture of the reverse durso. I found some drawing in paint but nothing that shows the actual PVC fitting needed.

Do I simply attach a T fitting to my drain with a cap and hole on the top and the pipe that goes down into the water? Should I go from a 1" to a 2" with the reverse durso?

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15010248#post15010248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Logzor
I currently have a durso standpipe in my overflow. It is nearly silent.

I could not find a good picture of the reverse durso. I found some drawing in paint but nothing that shows the actual PVC fitting needed.

Do I simply attach a T fitting to my drain with a cap and hole on the top and the pipe that goes down into the water? Should I go from a 1" to a 2" with the reverse durso?

That about sums it up. 2 inch pipe is recommended. Using a Y instead of T is also recommended but a T will work. remember, it wont stop the bubbles, just quiet the water going into the sump.

 

[Logzor]

Sounds good, ill try and pick that stuff up tonight. How do I go from a 1" pipe to a 2" pipe?
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that I should not need a filterbag to stop bubbles if I have baffles in my sump.

I have a simple over under over between the skimmer chamber (where the water enters) and the fuge. In some cases are there simply too many