Pop Eye - New Coral Beauty Angel

I would definitely argue that healthy fish are much more disease resistant than stressed fish. So, sounds like the angel was either very stressed with a very low immune response or he was infected to some degree well before he was purchased. Rarely do you see a fish that has been in the tank for years scratch his eye and get an infection. This happens frequently with newly imported fish. Stress+pathogens+eye damage ( i.e. a way for the pathogens to enter the body) = popeye. I can guarantee you that the amount of free floating pathogens in wholesalers and LFS tanks is far greater than that in the customersââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ reef. The bottom line is quarantine is the only way to avoid such problems with disease. Go ask Bob Fenner at Wetweb and he will tell you the same be proactive not reactive.
 
Benni,

The bottom line is quarantine is the only way to avoid such problems with disease. Go ask Bob Fenner at Wetweb and he will tell you the same be proactive not reactive.

Not in my tank. I have first hand knowledge. No quarantine for me as there was no way in the world I was going to ge that clown out of my tank without tearing it down. I used melifx on him about 5 months ago and it cured rather quickly. I mean his eye looked nasty nasty. and now its normal. I thought for sure that eye was a goner. None of my corals were affected.
 
Sure, I have to admit that I have seen fish pull through (especially clowns which are essentially damselfish) from sickness even without treatment. However my point was that in order to prevent disease problems 100% of the time, quarantine is needed. Granted you lucked out with your fish, however I can tell you first hand that for every reef that is treated with medication successfully there is one that suffers. I will say it again; an ounce of prevention always beats a pound of cure.
 
Well I freash water dip every fish before I place it in my reef tank, as I kow most, if not all LFs run copper. That being said, i still have had some ich problems from stress etc. I don't think anythiing is going to be 100% in this hobby.
 
the only thing in this hobby that is 100% 4 sure..... " If it can go wrong, it will. if can die, it will & if it can break, it will"
 
The only problem with running copper in a store is that customers do not want to look at bare bottum tanks. Aragonite absorbs copper rapidly and makes it difficult to maintain copper concentration.

BTW: I am a fool for writing 100%, but I still stand behind quarantining livestock. IMO it is a more mature veiw of husbandry. Sure it takes more time, but sn't the survival of your organisms more important?
 
Agreed Benni, proper Husbandry is the key to being successful in this hobby. Unfortunatley, it takes the back seat to other things sometimes. Its the real Husband thing that takes a major piece of my time:D
 
The fish seems to be doing better today... although I haven't been able to spend too much time watching him...having a bit of a medical emergency of sorts w/ my mom and spent most of the day at the hospital ...so I might not be online this week much...but will post at some point how the angel is doing.
 
czieler,

I'm addressing your first/original post only:
Popeye is sometimes mis-diagnosed. Is the whole eye really popped out from its socket, or is it just swollen in parts or areas around the eye?

Some known causes for the eye swelling include injury (scratched, netting injury, hitting aquarium decor, fight with another fish, etc.) which leads to swelling and may go on to a minor bacterial infection.

Popeye though has three main causes - bacterial, fungal, gas: Usually the Popeye is an outward symptom of an internal, ocular infection either bacterial or fungal in nature. It can be brought on by trauma, bad water quality, and/or a decline of the fish's immune system (e.g., poor nutrition over time) -- the same underlying causes of other symptoms like cloudy eye(s) and even swelling of the eye. Only this infection has affected the ocular area, and goes beyond just a scratched eye or eye surface condition.

The gas condition is rare but does occur. It is essentially when the atmospheric pressure is below the gas pressure in the water. If the aquarium setup doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t guarantee a fast gas exchange, then there is too much gas in the water compared to the atmosphere around the tank and gas bubbles can form inside fish tissue. The most common event is when you have a pump or device operating (accidently) like a venturi, drawing a lot of air into and mixing with the aquarium water, and that gas is not escaping the water fast enough. Another (albeit rare) phenomena is when a weather front quickly moves in to your area and the barometric pressure drops quickly, and for a short time there is more gas pressure in your aquarium water than in the atmosphere around it and the gas again starts coming out in your fishââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s tissues. These are both unusual and rare conditions in a small home aquarium systems, but. . .it can happen. What keeps the gas exchange moving along at the optimal rate? It is making sure your tank water surface is moving around so that surface tension doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t hold back gas exchange. So if you check your equipment and verify you have good water surface movement and a good gas exchange going on, you can forget this one.

Since the ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“true Popeyeââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ can kill, the fish should be moved to a QT and given antibiotics that will go inside the fish. One such is Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. If this doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t work, switch the meds to an anti-fungal cure (e.g., Nifurpirinol).

If the eye is swollen, scratched or suffered an injury, I would perform a large water change and monitor the fish closely. If the fish is getting proper nutrition:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785228
AND the water quality and environment is super, the fish should heal on its own. If there are any signs of it not healing or if it gets worse, move it to a hospital tank and begin treatment with an antibiotic (the same as mentioned above).

Since the Popeye is usually an internal bacterial problem, this doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t spread to your other fish, unless the water quality, environment or nutrition is off.

From your description so far (just your first post) it would seem like an injury. I haven't read other posts, however.

Some threads:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=792631
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=561991
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7136521#post7136521
 
Wow that was very informative. Thanks Lee. Lee, what are your thoughts on the fore mentioned Melafix? (I guess I have a problem with anything that says fix or cure in the title. It makes me think they are selling snake oil.)
 
I've run some experiments with Melafix and Pimafix. Under many bacterial infection conditions, the manufacturer recommends using both. So I did that in my experiments.

Overall, I've treated sick fish with these two meds in about 700 gallons of water. One thing I know for sure about it is that it smells. If you go into someone's home that is using it, you know they're using it. :D

What I've found so far is that it seems to prevent healthy fish from getting sick, but I've not found it ever to cure a sick fish.

I have friends into freshwater who swear by it. I have observed sick freshwater fish treated with the both of them and I have indeed witnessed freshwater fish return to good health. This doesn't seem to happen with the saltwater fishes.

These two chemicals, derived from natural sources, seem to be able to reduce the numbers of bacteria in the water column. But for saltwater fishes, they don't seem to help those fish rid such infections from their surface, and has no effect on internal bacterial infections. So if the fish's external bacterial infection spreads to an internal infection, the fish will likely succumb to the infection despite the use of these medications. If the fish's external bacterial infection is something the fish will win out over (that is able to resist further infection AND heal itself) these medications seem to be okay. If the fish is healthy but other fish have bacterial infections, I see the use of these meds to help the healthy, uninfected fishes from getting ill. But as mentioned above, I have not witnessed the scenario of an ill fish getting healthy from the use of just these meds. Other actions by the aquarist must take place.

Hope the above helps. :)
 
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