Possible New Cure for Ick?

[Poseidon's Vortex]

have you tried a fresh water dip for your flu? hehhe lol

There is a product out there called Airplanes which is like alka selzer, it has some good stuff already in it, including ginger, it will help with flu symtoms.

 

[sesegal99]

Thanks, but I'm not bedridden so I'll do a little experiment on myself with just the ginger.

 

[sesegal99]

Day 2:

No change yet to the Purple Tang in the main tank.

Hippo Tang is looking much better. I'd say that 1/2 the ick area is gone and he is physically looking better. I gave him two small feedings of prime reef flake saoked in ginger yesterday, nothing else.

I'll continue and keep all updated.

I have drank 3 lg glasses of ginger tea and although symptoms have started to go away. I may have to opt for medicine for myself as I have 10 dives sceduled starting next thurs. Can't chance missing them b/c of being unable to equalize pressure in my ears.

 

[Thales]

After 2 or 3 weeks of heavy feeding and no ginger (after ginger making no difference) my tank is has shown no signs of ich for a week.

 

[Glopez1]

what is the ingredients of the home made food mix that you mix with the ginger?
would the quality of the ingredients mixed with the ginger have anything to do with the success?

 

[sesegal99]

I used a simple mixture, prime reef flake food, small amount of water and ginger.

Day 3 update. No signs of ich on either fish, all spots are gone and both are swimming, acting, feeding normally.

I will switch back to normal feedings / food and see if Ich returns. Normal being a mixture of frozen, formula A, prime reef flake etc, no ginger.

Seems to me that ginger has some positive effect. Also after feeding the main tank w/ the ginger mixture, my hammer coral was larger than I have ever seen it and my alveopora even perked up.

Tank parameters are stable and I have done nothing different.

 

[Poseidon's Vortex]

"As far as preparation goes, I have a Jamaican ginger root I got from the produce section of the local supermarket. Of course, I cleaned it very well before preparing it. All I do is grate it with a very fine-bladed cheese grater. I get about Ã"šÃ‚¼ tsp. of ginger powder and mix it up with my own fish food concoction (mixture of raw oyster, raw shrimp, three kinds of algae, krill, and marine flake that has been somewhat liquefied in a blender). I take the Ã"šÃ‚¼ teaspoon of ginger and add it to 1 tablespoon of my fish food mixture and mix it up thoroughly. Then I just dump it in the tank like a normal feeding."

I have tried the ginger rout with some possible success but not complete annihilation..so Im not sure as of yet if this really works...

I noticed the author stated above that he used JAMAiCAN Ginger root. I wonder if there are different kinds of Ginger root, is it possible that only the Jamaican kind is extremely effective?

 

[Poseidon's Vortex]

Well i have tried the Ginger for three days and the Ick is worse as ever if not worse.. I got organic ginger and soaked the food with it for about 1hr before feeding.. nothing...

I had a thought that maybe it was the pesticides on the store bought GINGER that was killing the parasites? Cuz as far as i can tell organic ginger is worthless treatment..

Like I said above im not sure if there are different types of ginger but the one im using is not working at all. I have gone back to ICH attack by Cordons which has worked OK in the past.

Also getting a UV light this next week. 18v Turbo Twist. Will run this until I see no ICH., beyond its breeding stages then I will wean my system from UV. I dont like killing my water.

 

[Chicago]

i too have tried ginger . IMO it does not help with curing ick. in twenty plus years i bleive in only two methonds.

1. copper
2. hypo salinity.

i have tried all the so called reef safe products and found them to be useless. chem marine. stop ick ect. products based on pepper ect.

what i have found is that if the fish is strong and eating well, with no disturbances to the tank such as cleaning moving rock adding corals ect. thing we do to stress out the fish in other words... that the iick goes away. well actually dormant. i think it is always there .

i say this because my tangs once in a while get it and fight it off with good feeding ect.

again just my 2 cents worth

 

[ATJ]

Originally posted by Chicago

...that the iick goes away. well actually dormant. i think it is always there .

Please explain how does the parasite become dormant? Which phase of the parasite becomes dormant? How does the dormant parasite survive? What are the stimuli for dormancy? (i.e. what makes the parasite become dormant?) What are the stimuli for coming out of dormancy? How does the parasite (active or dormant) detect these stimuli?

i say this because my tangs once in a while get it and fight it off with good feeding ect.

How can you be sure that the signs you see "once in a while" are actually Cryptocaryon?

 

[Chicago]

let me clarify .. i do not mean dormant in the scientific use of the word. what i mean is that i have tried many times to get the ick out of my tank. by the way in a thread ATJ , a while back you were very helpfull wth my situation.

what i am trying to get across is that i believe in my tank at least the ick is always there. just no thriving enough to do harm. months will go by and no signs of ick at all then i do some rock work or add a coral and have tomove the rock around. no introduction of aother fish... but then days later the tangs have a couple spots of ick. fight it off and then it is gone again for months.

this has repeated itself in my tank years ago and on this two or three year old tank

i understand the life cycle of ick and as far as one know there is no dormancey period. but others have spoken about its life cycle being made longer due to other facts.

by the way.. have had ick attacks enough that i am pretty sure it is ick.

 

[Poseidon's Vortex]

Sounds like your implying that when the sand it disturbed that the ICH tends to get stimulated if I read you correctly.

I only have one problem... my Dragon Wrasse CONSTANTLY stirrs up the sand thrashing around searching for large coral chunks and shells to cover his sleeping spot in the sand. While its fun to watch him twist into the sand and dissapear. its not so fun when he makes my tank look like one of those Xmas snow ball things when your turn them upsidown and get all that fake snow in the liquid? hahaha

Im wondering if my Wrasse is compounding my ICH problem by constantly moving and sifting the sand bed around?

I too am beginning a gradual slow decrease in salinity. I noticed as I increased salinity in the past I could tell immediately the Tang would start to get ICH... so im lowering it now.

I wish there was really something safe that worked some true Herb or something, these guys are tenatious..

 

[ATJ]

...but then days later the tangs have a couple spots of ick. fight it off and then it is gone again for months.

...

by the way.. have had ick attacks enough that i am pretty sure it is ick.

Even an expert with a great deal of experience would not be able to tell whether a couple of white spots on a fish were Cryptocaryon or not just by looking at the fish. Samples of the spots would have to be examined under a microscope.

Just the a few weeks ago, one of my cleaner wrasses went over the overflow in 180G. It took me some hours to retrieve it and it was quite stressed while in the overflow. When I finally got it out it was covered in white spots. These looked exactly the same as the spots I have seen on fish when they have been infected with Cryptocaryon. I knew they were not Cryptocaryon trophonts as they could not possible grow to that size in a matter of hours. All it was was debris that had got caught in the fish's mucus which was likely to be excessive due to the stress. The spots were all gone within a few hours further demonstrating that they couldn't have been Cryptocaryon trophonts.

I suspect a great many cases of people seeing "'Ich' come and go" was simply debris in the mucus of the fish.

 

[melev]

Andrew, that is something I've often wondered. I notice that in many of your posts, you ask "how do you know it is Ich?" Obviously, most of us can not grab our fish, scrape off the dot and put it under a microscope. Some of us can't even catch the fish, period. How can we hobbyists identify the white dots as sand or detritus and not Ich?

 

[ATJ]

Marc,

Basically, there is no way for a hobbyist to determine if white spots are Cryptocaryon or something else (including other parasites) just by looking at the spots.

Looking at the cycle of the spots may help in narrowing down the cause. Cryptocaryon trophonts attach to the fish for 3 to 7 days (at normal reef temperatures - 25-30°C) so if the spots are visible for less than 48 hours, it is almost certainly not Cryptocaryon and quite probably just debris. If the spots are there for more than 7 days (and the water temperature is above 25°C) it is not Cryptocaryon and may be lymphocystis. Note that if the Cryptocaryon infection has been present in the tank for a number of cycles, it is possible for the parasites to get out of sync and there may be spots present for more than 7 days, but the same spots won't be present for more than 7 days.

The time the between when the spots are visible is also useful. If the fish show the spots for 3 to 7 days, then show no signs for anywhere from 3 to 14 days and have the spots again for 3 to 7 days, you can be fairly certain it is Cryptocaryon.

 

[melev]

Years ago, I bought a small yellow tang, and acclimated it to my 55g reef. The Atlantic Blue Tang quickly and aggressively kept it in the corner, and never let it out. Within 24 hours, it was covered with white spots. Even by target feeding that area, the tang ignored the food as it was too stressed to eat. That night, it was covered even more. I knew I'd have to set up a quarantine tank in the morning to transfer the fish if it was to survive. The next morning, its dead carcass was on the sand, half eaten by whelks & bristleworms.

Now, based on that single (and only) experience I've had with what I thought was Ich, how can we observe a fish for 7 or more days? It was my impression that Ich can cover a fish relatively quickly and be the cause of death. Or are you referring to a lighter case of Ich, if there is such a thing?

 

[Poseidon's Vortex]

gota be a way to kill this stuff without turning my tank into a fw tank or some dead copper mine... or even smelling like a taco

 

[Poseidon's Vortex]

ATJ Does cryptocaryon = Ichthyophthirius multifiliis?

I read this quote online tonight..

"Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is the freshwater parasite that causes an infection that is often referred to as ick."

The key to this quote above is the word FRESHWATER...

If this parasite is a FRESHWATER parasite, and the statement above is correct.. how on earth does it survive in SW? And secondly if these are the same parasites how does Hypo-Salinity KILL it, if its a FW parasite? Is the crypto some mutation of the ICHthyo?

If it is a FRESH water parasite, then I would think its entirely possible and Likely that our RO/Fresh water ITSELF is continually adding some fresh spores into our tank every time we Top off with FW?? I have noticed that people have mentioned after water changes they have seen outbreaks..

And if it is found and originates in FW, would UV sterilization to our FRESHWATER help annhilate it BEFORE it hits our tanks?

Please set me straight about this situation

 

[ATJ]

Marc,

I wasn't suggesting that people observe the fish for 7 days before taking action. Immediate action should be taken - which is why quarantining fish is a good idea as treatment can commence immediately without the need to move the fish. My comments were more directed to the observations of a few spots on fish and assuming that it must be Cryptocaryon.

Based on the information you have provided, it is not possible to determine the cause of death of the yellow tang, nor is it even possible to say that it had Cryptocaryon.

The signs you describe are consistent with Cryptocaryon, and if it was Cryptocaryon it is probably the fish came with it and the trophonts became visible as they grew. It normally doesn't kill that quickly, although can, and I guess given the treatment the yellow tang was receiving from the blue tang, death is not as surprising. It is also possible that it had Amyloodinium either alone or with the Cryptocaryon. Amyloodinium can kill very quickly.

 

[ATJ]

ATJ Does cryptocaryon = Ichthyophthirius multifiliis?

No. They are two different parasites. While their signs are superficially similar as are their life cycles, it has been determined that they are only distantly related.

As you have read, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is a freshwater parasite. The name "Ich" comes from the abbreviation of its genus. Cryptocaryon irritans is a marine parasite and is seen as the marine equivalent of "Ich" and so often goes by the name Marine "Ich".

A number of studies have shown that different stages of Cryptocaryon have different tolerances to low salinity. Colorni (1985) found that trophonts (the feeding stage that attaches to fish) can tolerate freshwater (which is why freshwater dips are not always effective), tomonts (the reproductive stage that is not on the fish) can tolerate a salinity of 15‰ and higher and that tomonts (the infective stage AKA theront) can only tolerate 25‰ and higher. Other studies have shown that theronts can survive 16‰ water.

It would not be possible to introduce Cryptocaryon with freshwater (unless an infected fish has only just been dipped in that water). It would be impossible to add Cryptocaryon with RO water as none of the stages could pass through the RO membrane.