Potential Tank Rebuild at 1 year

[scelona]

Hey guys,
I am thinking about rebuilding my tank that is close to one year old. The tank looks okay but I have gotten very little growth from my corals and nothing looks super happy.

The reason I am considering a tank rebuild is that I suspect that my rock is the source of many of my issues. I had major issues with alk/cal stability in the beginning and the reef chemistry forum thought it was most likely due to my rock (manmade, synthetic live rock). I was dosing heavily considering the minimal corals I had stocked which would rapidly precipitate out of the water and has caused the sand bed to turn into concrete and looks terrible. Also, I have been experiencing a decently nasty bloom of what I think is diatoms. I constantly scrub at it but it still manages to cover some of my corals and dirty the tank and sand bed. This has been occurring since before I added fish so I doubt that it is a result of over feeding or poor maintenance.

Some info on the tank:
Salinity: 1.025
Temp: 78.2
Magnesium: 1360
Alk: 8.5
Cal: 420

Running gfo/carbon combo with oversized skimmer, religious weekly water changes, constant parameter checking, reef breeders photon.

I have put so much time into this hobby and am willing to do whatever it takes to have a beautiful tank like I see so often on this site. Let me know if you think restarting the tank with something like BRS reef saver rock or whatever else you guys recommend is a good idea or pointless.

 

[reenact12321]

Let's backup. I recently went through the same frustration and just sense of wanting to start over. I also have a 40 Breeder. From talking to people here, it's important to have patience and make small changes.

The parameters you posted are good, though I would be interested to see your nitrate and phosphate params if you're having diatom explosion.

Also, how long are you running your lights? Are blue and white channels separate (LED)?

You may be just giving the diatoms too much light. I had that and I was rewarded with green hair and cyano explosion. The only place I see diatom stuff is in my sump, because that has a light running 24/7.

With LEDs, 9-10 hours blue and 4-5 hours white (full spectrum) is ideal, if you have MH or T5, you'll have to bounce it off someone else.

Are you running a filter sock? That would help you remove the matter as you scrub and it goes down the drain. Removing bio matter is important otherwise it just fertalizes the next round.

My phosphates are finally reasonable, but I"m going to start running a reactor to keep them low to kill off my remaining algae.

If consistency is key, starting over is the exact opposite of that.

 

[scelona]

Let's backup. I recently went through the same frustration and just sense of wanting to start over. I also have a 40 Breeder. From talking to people here, it's important to have patience and make small changes.

The parameters you posted are good, though I would be interested to see your nitrate and phosphate params if you're having diatom explosion.

Also, how long are you running your lights? Are blue and white channels separate (LED)?

You may be just giving the diatoms too much light. I had that and I was rewarded with green hair and cyano explosion. The only place I see diatom stuff is in my sump, because that has a light running 24/7.

With LEDs, 9-10 hours blue and 4-5 hours white (full spectrum) is ideal, if you have MH or T5, you'll have to bounce it off someone else.

Are you running a filter sock? That would help you remove the matter as you scrub and it goes down the drain. Removing bio matter is important otherwise it just fertalizes the next round.

My phosphates are finally reasonable, but I"m going to start running a reactor to keep them low to kill off my remaining algae.

If consistency is key, starting over is the exact opposite of that.

My nitrate and phosphate always test at 0 using red sea test kits which I understand is due to the diatoms using these before they are testable in the water. But like I said, this issue started before adding fish and I have never missed a week of water changes.

I am using LEDS (reef breeders photon) and am using their recommended lighting schedule with the blues maxed at 50% and on for about 10 hours and the white maxing out at 35% and on about 8 hours.

I understand the skepticism of starting over but my sand bed needs to be ripped out as it is a rock at this point. And if I am going through that process then I figure I might as well throw my few corals in my quarantine and use different rock.

 

[reenact12321]

I had plating from calcium when I first started, mostly because I had no coral and the calcium percipitated. What you can do is get some live sand from the store, take out some of your scaley stuff, and then replace it a little at a time. I actually have a plan to do this when my alk balance stops plaguing me.

As for your rock, man-made vs live isn't really a big difference once it's in a system for awhile, it's about bacteria colonies to process your ammonia and nitrites, since you're not having ammonia problems, your man-made rocks are just as good as live rocks at this point.

 

[scelona]

Okay thanks, well you gave me something else to think about for sure.

 

[reenact12321]

I went to your build thread and it looks like you have a solid foundation. with the sand is it all solid solid, or just nasty rocky chunks?

 

[scelona]

I went to your build thread and it looks like you have a solid foundation. with the sand is it all solid solid, or just nasty rocky chunks?

Thanks, it was looking good at the start but I am not happy at this point. It doesn't look anywhere near as bad as some tanks but still not good. Theres parts that are really solid (lower flow areas) while the rest has a bunch of rocky chunks.

 

[reenact12321]

yeah, I would go get a bag of the live sand, and start breaking that stuff up and siphon it out. Be aware no matter how careful you are putting in new live sand, it's going to cloud your tank for a few hours, just keep the pump cranking and change your sock a few times if you have to, it will settle down after a little while, but the fish will look out at you like "what have you done?!" lol It doesn't look like you have any jumpers, but I'd keep the lid on after adding it as they may try to "escape" the cloudiness

 

[CStrickland]

I remember your threads in the chem forum trying to figure out the issue with the rocks. Iirc it was a real stumper, sorry to hear it didn't resolve. I can understand the impulse to just start over. You've tried everything and for whatever reason it just didn't work out, why keep going in circles. Even if it's not the rock, you've had that nagging worry for months and it's interfering with your enjoyment of the hobby. I'd go for it.

Since you've got a functional biofilter established, if I were you I'd probably buy new dry rock and swap it out gradually. You can get base rock from reefcleaners for $2 a pound shipped free. Then just replace a few pounds of the synthetic stuff every couple weeks until it's all gone. That'll give your bacteria a chance to colonize the new stuff over time, and dry rock won't bring any dead stuff to cause a cycle.

The thing with the sand becoming concrete is an alk thing. I'm not sure exactly how it works but it's due to the crazy alk fluctuations from the dosing your having to do. I'd prolly leave it until you get the new rock in and then slowly replace with dry sand. I would not add live sand to a running tank, it's full of dead bacteria that can cause an ammonia spike while adding no benefit. And if you use dry sand you can rinse it to minimize dust.

It's really up to you whether you replace the rocks or keep fighting because it should work. It's not working, obvi. Maybe none of the issues have anything to do with the rock, and you'll replace them all for nothing. But at least you'll know for sure, and since you can swap them out for dry rock for $100 that's pretty cheap piece of mind.

 

[scelona]

I remember your threads in the chem forum trying to figure out the issue with the rocks. Iirc it was a real stumper, sorry to hear it didn't resolve. I can understand the impulse to just start over. You've tried everything and for whatever reason it just didn't work out, why keep going in circles. Even if it's not the rock, you've had that nagging worry for months and it's interfering with your enjoyment of the hobby. I'd go for it.

Since you've got a functional biofilter established, if I were you I'd probably buy new dry rock and swap it out gradually. You can get base rock from reefcleaners for $2 a pound shipped free. Then just replace a few pounds of the synthetic stuff every couple weeks until it's all gone. That'll give your bacteria a chance to colonize the new stuff over time, and dry rock won't bring any dead stuff to cause a cycle.

The thing with the sand becoming concrete is an alk thing. I'm not sure exactly how it works but it's due to the crazy alk fluctuations from the dosing your having to do. I'd prolly leave it until you get the new rock in and then slowly replace with dry sand. I would not add live sand to a running tank, it's full of dead bacteria that can cause an ammonia spike while adding no benefit. And if you use dry sand you can rinse it to minimize dust.

It's really up to you whether you replace the rocks or keep fighting because it should work. It's not working, obvi. Maybe none of the issues have anything to do with the rock, and you'll replace them all for nothing. But at least you'll know for sure, and since you can swap them out for dry rock for $100 that's pretty cheap piece of mind.

What you are saying is definitely reflective of my current mind set. I am well aware that all of these issues may be unrelated to the rock since I constantly read about beginners and experts fighting against algae and trying to maintain stability. But like you have said, the rock seems like a likely culprit and it would be nice to eliminate this variable. Is there a reason you think I should change things out gradually if I pull the trigger on this? I was leaning towards moving my two clowns and few corals to my quarantine tank and ripping out rock and sand and starting from square one. I would probably keep a small piece of rock to try and seed the new rock. Thoughts?

 

[CStrickland]

I was just thinking that it would be less disruptive. No need to start all the way from scratch if you can keep some of the critters that you have populated the rocks with. Besides just the filtration bacteria there's probs beneficial filter feeders like tiny sponges, and micro CUC like bristleworms. That kind of stuff that comes in on frags and makes a mature tank healthy and stable. If you go slower they will have a chance to move into the new rock, and you can keep your fish in the tank too. Catching fish is not fun. It might make aquascaping harder though.

 

[scelona]

I was just thinking that it would be less disruptive. No need to start all the way from scratch if you can keep some of the critters that you have populated the rocks with. Besides just the filtration bacteria there's probs beneficial filter feeders like tiny sponges, and micro CUC like bristleworms. That kind of stuff that comes in on frags and makes a mature tank healthy and stable. If you go slower they will have a chance to move into the new rock, and you can keep your fish in the tank too. Catching fish is not fun. It might make aquascaping harder though.

Hm interesting... I am not worried about catching my clowns as they usually hang out near my hand whenever it is in the tank. I would definitely loose some of the CUC with a full restart but I think this route would make it a lot easier to reaquascape and replace the sand. I am in no rush at all so if this means my display is lifeless for another two months then that is fine, I just want my tank to look beautiful!