powerhead pulling from an under gravel filter?

[RickGemme]

when i set up my tank i was recommended to put a under gravel filter in with a power head pulling water from there to circulate some of the junk that builds up on the bottom. Question i have for everyone is do i need that or can i get rid of the piping and just run the powerhead free like i have my 2nd one set up? Im going to mess around with making a foam reef this week and i need to build it around the pipe if it should stay. thanks in advance

rick

 

[gpep419]

i would get rid of the under gravel filter all together i dont think they are worth a d@rn in a reef.

 

[Obi-dad]

The undergravel filter is old technology that doesn't work very well for reef tanks. Best bet is not to use it at all, just use the powerhead for circulation.

Instead of using the undergravel filter, use live rock for biological filtration, and a protein skimmer. Many of us use sand also, but do research on sand beds versus bare-bottom before you make a decision on the sand.

 

[aznlmpulse]

I have to agree. Who recommended the UGF for a saltwater set up? It's going to be a pain in the butt to remove...you'll cause another sand storm no doubt...but better now than later.

 

[RickGemme]

i have some live rock already, not as much as is recommended but damn im on a budget lol going to be getting more soon; dont have live sand, just a basic white gravel flooring about 2 inches deep and 2 powerheads plus the filter exhaust to move water. I saw a nice tank setup made with greatstuff foam and PVC, the rain today gave me a day off from work and figured a good day to play around with it.... just wanted to ask all the questions first

 

[Obi-dad]

The gravel you are using won't work very well in the long run. It will trap detritus. Since this is a new tank, your best option is to take out the gravel and undergravel filter. I used those many years ago (before the live rock system), and they work for a period of time, then cause great problems. Do a search, you will find many others who agree.

 

[RickGemme]

so remove the basing and use live sand or some other option i am missing?

 

[Obi-dad]

Yes, it would be best to remove the gravel, very few people use them now for reef tanks. There is a great debate about using a deep sand bed versus a bare bottom (usually plastic, but can be foam). I personally like the looks of sand but I only have 1-2 inches. There are those that rail against sand, and while I think bare bottom is easier to do, I just prefer the look of a sand bottom (takes a little more work though).

 

[RickGemme]

my tank is acutally a year and a half old and have had no problems to speak of with the setup so far... the gravel does get a buildup in it, but i use a suction hose for my water changes and it gets most of it out

 

[Mare100]

When we first set up our 55gal, we were recommended to use the Undergravel Filter/crushed coral setup also. Yeah.....things were great for awhile....now we have an ongoing battle with Nitrates!

We decided to do a slow "overhaul". We disconnected the powerheads (you gotta pull the filter now because all kinds of crap will get trapped down there). We then pulled the filter out 1 side at a time. It caused a bit of a sandstorm, but luckily the fish in this tank are pretty darned hardy. After running extra filters to clear things up.....we slowly started scooping out the crushed coral and replacing it with sand. We also added a bunch of LR.

The process took a little time, but the tank is doing much better now. Everybody made it safely (1 Clown, 1 Lunar Wrasse, 1 Snowflake Eel, 1 Flame Hawk and some snails). The LOVE their rock and we are even adding some mushrooms and polyps now.

Still battling the Nitrates.....but they are no where NEAR as high as they were. We're down to about 50. Trying to battle that with more frequent water changes.

Good luck!!!

M

 

[Paul B]

i would get rid of the under gravel filter all together i dont think they are worth a d@rn in a reef.

The undergravel filter is old technology that doesn't work very well for reef tanks. Best bet is not to use it at all, just use the powerhead for circulation.

I have to agree. Who recommended the UGF for a saltwater set up? It's going to be a pain in the butt to remove...you'll cause another sand storm no doubt...but better now than later.

Wow and to think I have been running my reef for 37 years incorrectly.
You guys are running it wrong. You need to run it very slow and in reverse. The longest running, problem free tanks use RUGF's

Any of you guys without a UG filter have a ref running that long?
Have a great day.
Paul:lol:

 

[Moonstream]

Well, they mean that there are better ways filter tanks. Also, most people are, as above, battling with nitrates after a little while. Maybe you had a diffrent result, but thats not what happens to most

 

[RickGemme]

last week i went through the process of removing all CC and UGF, replaced with 40 lbs of sand... the tank looks 100% better with the sand base and all livestock made it through safely..... actually have had 3 little red feather dusters pop up since the change

 

[bues0022]

If you go the route of making a foam reef, I'm not sure Great Stuff is what you want to build it with. If my memory serves me correctly, it's an open-cell foam that will absorb water, and eventually break down and get gross. Maybe someone else can chime in on this too. I know what you're trying to accomplish, but make sure the specific spray foam you get will withstand the underwater marine environment without absorbing or leaching anything you don't want.

 

[aznlmpulse]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10160457#post10160457 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Wow and to think I have been running my reef for 37 years incorrectly.
You guys are running it wrong. You need to run it very slow and in reverse. The longest running, problem free tanks use RUGF's

Any of you guys without a UG filter have a ref running that long?
Have a great day.
Paul:lol:

Running an UGF in reverse is a whole different animal with different effects.

I think when beginners are told by their LFS's that UGF are good to have for reef tanks, they usually mean running it the way it was meant to be used in a FW setup....no?

 

[Paul B]

Moonstream, there are arguably better means to run a reef besides a UGF, of course I don't think so but thats just me. But to say things like UG's are worthless and they don't work very well in a reef tank is incorrect as my reef proves. The oldest reefs use this technology but you have to use the thing correctly for a reef. It is true that a regular run UG filter will give you problems but if you adapt it for salt water by just running it very slow and in reverse you will solve your problems and not have a nitrate factory. These rumors persist about UG filters by people with very little experience in reefing. If you have one, two or three years in the hobby, you really can't have much personal hands on experience with a UG filter. The things will last forever with almost no maintenance, there is almost no chance of a tank crash, the gravel can be stirred or cleaned if you like with no consequences and if run like I said, you will also have no nitrates.
I personally do not like DSBs for my own personal reasons but I would not say that they are useless as I know many (most) people use them and they work very well. UG filters are not used much because of these rumors by people who use them like we did in the fiftees with fresh water fish. It is true that if a UG filter is used like the directions that come with it say you will have a mud storm if you move it, after my first 25 year cleaning it really was not that bad and even before I cleaned it, I had no nitrates.
Guys I mean no disrespect you probably have nice looking reefs, just research a little before you discount something you may not have much experience with.
Have a great day.
Paul