Prazi pro and ammo lock/stress coat is this ok to use together?

[shawna1972]

Ok so I just lost my scopas tang during copper treatment,am now down to one fish "Hippo tang."
I stopped copper treatment because almost 2 weeks and the areas I thought were velvet are not clearing up.It looks as if he's off blue under the belly and on his face almost cream color, he has clamped pectoral fins and still is flashing as to rub his gills. The area by his gills look to have tiny holes that were black dots, and are brown/red dots now I think black ich.? I figured Id treat the velvet first and then treat for black ich
they have been in Qt since april 21st and they were in a low dose copper before I got him for almost 2 weeks. Even at a low dose wouldn't these guys have been Ich/Velvet free by now?
I am going to stat Prazipro liquid form tomorrow, I have the hippo in a 10 gallon Qt because Im going to sterilize the 30 gallon and then put him back in their but in the meantime" last night" I dosed stress coat ,and today I put some ammo lock in becausee of the small 10 gallon Qt. My question is can I use prazi with these 2 products? will it cause harm? also my salinity is a little low 1021. I have never used prazi before so any help or cautions would be greatly appreciated also does it deplete oxygen after dosing?

Thanks again!

 

[francis1123]

i have used prazi with amquel with no ill effects.
on the note of treatment, i am not a copper fan, and have very little success with using it. it is difficult to keep it at levels that are considered "treatment" levels. low dose copper the LFS use help with stopping disease outbreaks, but they really don't do much for curing the disease a fish has.
i battled velvet a few months back, and have recently taken care of several friends fish using Quickcure. it is formaline and malachite green. it works. you follow the dosing instructions, do a DAILY 25% water change and dose again. in 1 week, pretty much all diseases will be gone. a few sensitive fish came down with secondary bacterial infections that i treated using Kana-Pro. a fish breeder friend of mine recommends using the Kana-Pro and Quickcure together to prevent this secondary infection. i hope this helps you out, best of luck with your fish.

 

[1geo]

Go to FishVet site and follow their chart to see if it will isolate your problem. The site URL is http://www.fishvet.com/sw_parasite_chart.htm Your Tang may have Brooklynella in which case copper or PraziPro will do not good. The only thing that will cure BOTH diseases is Formalin baths. Check out the web site above, it lists the disease and its treatment.

 

[shawna1972]

Thanks, I did go to fish vet no help but thanks heres an update:
I did put hippo in display after treating with prazi and acclimated him back into display with meth blue.
He's swimming,happy eating like a pig,not scratching but those darn dots are still their? can this be the start of Hlle? they are redish brown dots going up his gill line and under his eye.

 

[1geo]

Your fish has parasites. Those brown or reddish dots are parasites under the skin. Copper will not kill them until they leave the fish and get into the water of the aquarium. The only question is what parasite your fish has. If copper did not cure him then he probably has Brooklynella. So if you do nothing he will eventually get worse and die. I would strongly recommend Formalin baths; Formalin kills both Ich and Brook parasites. You give one 45 min bath every other day for 10 days and your fish is cured of both Ich, Marine Velvet and Brook. Formalin is not accumulative. It evaporates after being mixed with water in 2 hours so once mixed you have to use it right away. You then have to keep the main tank the fish came out of fallow (fish-less) for 8 weeks. This is because the Brook parasite multiplies by cell division and the new cell becomes a swimmer. The simmers can persist for up to 4 weeks and if they do not find a host, they die. Ich's eggs are in your substrata and can lay dormant for up to 8 weeks before they hatch into swimmers which must find a host with in 48 hours or they die. So if you treat your fish and then put it back in the same tank it came out of to quickly, your fish will be reinfected with the parasite.

 

[JHemdal]

shawna1972,

Can you post a picture? It would help determine if the spots are from the tang turbellarian parasite, or something else.



1geo,

You wrote, "It evaporates after being mixed with water in 2 hours ". This is not true. Low doses will leave the water at a rate of about 25 ppm per day at tropical aquarium temperatures. The Hach formalin test kit will show this.....

Jay

 

[1geo]

Hi Jay, here we go again. There are a number of references that state, "Formaldehyde persists for only a few hours in aquariums and does not accumulate in the water" One I just looked up is
http://www.reef-fanatics.com/forums...reatment-brooklynellosis-brookynella-308.html
Its an extensive article on treating Brook and has the exact quote above in it. The article was written by Mr. Reefer, the administrator of Reef-Fanatics.com. From the depth of the article it would seem to me that he knows what he is talking about. There are other writers as well who have made the same statement and as I run across them I will post the links. In the same article referenced above Mr. Reef went on to say, "Formalin will be in your water for only 2 hours, will be gone after that, its completely reef safe, believe me." I for one believe him. If you feel his statement is not true you should go to Reef-Fanatics.com and tell him so.

 

[JHemdal]

1geo,

Sorry - I couldn't even get past the first line of the link you posted, where Mr. Reefer wrote: "... recommend formalin baths of between 0.125 and 167 mL/L for 30 to 60 minutes."

There is a horrendous typo there - 167 ml / liter is something on the order of a 15% formalin solution - you use that to preserve fish, not cure them!

Formalin doses are a function of time and concentration. Not all fish tolerate formalin to the same degree, but at tropical temperatures, in a FO tank, the dose / time ratio that I use is along these lines:

25 ppm for 24 hour static bath
35 ppm for 24 hour static bath, with a 25% partial water change
75 ppm for three hours
167 ppm for one hour
200 ppm for 45 minutes

I like the 75ppm dose because you can change 66% of the water after three hours and the residual formalin is only at 25ppm, and that works as a static bath.

As I mention in my Advanced Marine Aquarium Technique book, a handy equation is: target ppm * actual aquarium capacity in gallons / 266 = ml of formalin to add (or gram of product)

Although I've never seen it, supposedly there is formalin that doesn't use methanol as a stabilizer. Would that formalin leave solution in two hours? Could be - but ALL of the aquarium grade formalin is stablized with 10% (or higher) methanol and I assure you, any working dose higher than 25 ppm can still be tested for 24 hours later.


Jay

 

[1geo]

So Jay because of a typo in the first part of the article you totally dismiss what Mr. Reefer wrote; amazing. If I am not mistaken, in the next to the last sentence in your post you infer that you could be wrong. I sure wish you would post this response on Reef-Fanatics.com I would love to read the debate. In the mean while, I will follow Mr. Reefers' advice; I already have with one Percula and thanks to Mr. Reefers its alive and well. And by the way, he is right about the 2 hours. Take an invertebrate and try it; after 2 hours the water is reef safe.

 

[shawna1972]

Ok guys I had 2 fish in Qt for almost 6 weeks No Ich was present on the fish that I seen at least it didnt look like Ich more like lymph on the scopas. he never flashed nothing just kept on loosing weight.
The fish in question was the hippo tang he started scratching his gills,
and his flesh by his eyes stated turning white then pitting.
They both went through cupramine scopas didnt make it out >wish I can have someone due a post mortam I still have him in the fridge
anyhow started prazi as recommended for gill flukes for the hippo.
those black spots turned red/brown my question is couldn't this be scarring? from where the the parasites were?
He is in my display "only fish in their" and is happy! I do not want to take him out of a 125 long and put him back in a 30 gallon high for nothing? And if it was Ich and cupramine killed it wouldnt their be scarring from that also?

 

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15092089#post15092089 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHemdal
shawna1972,

Can you post a picture? It would help determine if the spots are from the tang turbellarian parasite, or something else.



1geo,

You wrote, "It evaporates after being mixed with water in 2 hours ". This is not true. Low doses will leave the water at a rate of about 25 ppm per day at tropical aquarium temperatures. The Hach formalin test kit will show this.....

Jay

 

[shawna1972]

Im going to try to get a pic up later my son has the camera phone that is all I have I cant find my cord for y other phone

 

[1geo]

Do you have a microscope or access to one? It does take much of a microscope to see the parasites on the gills. Search with Google and you will bring up numerous pictures of the parasites in question. And as for the quote you have in your posting about Formalin remaining in water, Jay is wrong. Go to the link in my previous post and read the article on Brook and its treatment. Mr. Reefers is right, after two hours the water is reef safe.