prazipro treatment

[psilentchild]

I have a blue hippo and a queen angel in my qt.They have been in there for about 2 weeks.I started prazipro tuesday.Should I also hyposalinty for the the last two weeks along with prazipro?Also would it be a good idea to a add metronidazole to the food or that would be too much?

 

[1geo]

Why are you using Prazipro. Prazipro does not kill the major parasites such as Ich and Brooklynella. If I were going to give one treatment to a QT fish it would be 37% Formalin which kills the Ich and Brook parasites and a number of other gill flukes that Prazipro is used for. With Formalin you give one bath every other day for 10 days, a total of 5 baths. The way I do it is take 1 gal of QT tank water and put it in a small vessel. Then I add 1cc of Formalin. Immediately put the fish in the bath and try and keep them there for 1 hour, 45 minutes is the minimum; only remove them for extreme stress. Then return them to the QT tank and replace the water you took out with fresh RO salted water. Formalin will not accumalate in water it will disapate and in two hours will be gone so you must mix a new batch for each bath. I also add 1cc to the QT tank each day this kills any parasite swimmers in the water but is not strong enough to kill the parasites on the fish; the bath does this.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

I treat all new fish with Prazipro because praziquantel is very safe and quite effective against many common external and internal parasites that are difficult to detect without microscopy. It is true that it is not effective against some common parasites like Cryptocaryon irritans and Brooklynella hostilis, however the diseases caused by those parasites have obvious symptoms and can be treated if symptoms are observed.

Formalin is rather toxic to fish and humans, and in my opinion should only be used when necessary.

Personally, I do not treat for ich when I do not see symptoms, so I would skip the hypo. However, if I were treating ich I would not use hypo anyway. I keep fish in quarantine longer rather than medicating for everything prophylactically.

Metronidazole is effective against some internal parasites that praziquantel is not, but unless you suspect internal parasites that the prazi won't treat I would not add it.

 

[1geo]

I challenge your assertion that, ". . .the diseases caused by those parasites have obvious symptoms and can be treated if symptoms are observed." Your fish can have Brook or Ich and show no symptoms at all. In fact, in some cases, especially with Brook, when "obvious symptoms" occur its to late for treatment. If one fish in my tank has any symptoms of parasites ALL should be treated immediately, symptoms or not. When I first started out I failed to do this and lost 5 Clownfish before I wised up. In any case, I wish Psilentchild all the best and hope all of his fish survive.

 

[Kieth71]

Obvious fish like clownfish should be treated for brooks.I actually use paraguard for this.All other fish i have are treated with prazipro and either cupramine or quinine sulfate.prazipro along with hypo is also another good way to go as you are taking care of flukes,internal parasites and ich with this process.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

It is true that virtually any disease can have cases of silent carriers. However, I quarantine for a minimum of two months, and in my opinion a quick killing parasite like brook will show itself in that time. There is no sure way available to the aquarist to determine if a fish is 100% parasite free, and no way to treat a fish that will guarantee it either.

Is there a potential risk that a pathogen will slip through my quarantine, most definitely. But then you can treat a fish with every medicine available while in quarantine and still have something slip through for a variety of reasons. No treatment is without risk even when perfectly administered and no treatment is 100% effective. Because of this I try to limit the medications that I expose my animals to and watch very carefully for early symptoms of disease, particularly in new animals.

I agree that in most situations all exposed fish require treatment.

 

[jjk_reef00]

I have a queen angel with flukes. I did a fw dip and a bunch fell off. The fish is doing better now and I treated with prazipro on thursday. I've read that you treat for 7 days and then treat a second time. Do you wait a period between treating for the 2nd time?
I was going to just do a large water change, run carbon for 1 day and then immediately medicate the 2nd time. Is that the proper procedure?

 

[1geo]

Here are a number of reasons that I use Formalin on any new arrival in QT even if no symptoms are present.
1. Its quick. In 10 days treatment is completed.
2. Formalin kills the widest range of parasites and flukes then any other chemical I can think of. If anyone has a chemical that has a broader spectrum of effectiveness please post it; it would benefit everyone.
3. Anything that prazipro will kill, Formalin will kill; anything that copper will kill, Formalin will kill and Formalin will kill other parasites that prazipro and copper will not kill.

The down side is Formalin must be fresh, it does not have a long shelf life so I buy it from the larger retailers and plan on replacing it once a year. Keep a fresh bottle on hand its cheap insurance. Next, it does not accumulate in water; it dissipates and in two hours some writers have stated the water is "Reef Safe". I'm not sure I agree with that statement but it illustrates my point which is, it has to be used immediately and cannot be reused. Last but not least, its a dangerous chemical and has to be used with extreme care. Read the label and follow ALL of the safety warnings.

 

[1geo]

One other precaution when using Formalin. Do NOT use 37% Formalin on fish that have open wounds; it will kill them. One writer wrote the following on using Formalin on injured fish, "If the fish are injured or have open wounds then place them in a low salinity quarantine tank (approximately 14ppt salinity) for at least twenty-four hours before proceeding with formalin dips. Add a polymer such as Pro Tech Coat Marine™ or StressGuard™ to the quarantine tank to serve as a temporary mucus layer substitute." The only way I would do what this writer recommends is if it were a last ditch effort to keep a fish alive.

Also, only use 37% Formalin any lesser concentration and you are wasting your time.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

I have a queen angel with flukes. I did a fw dip and a bunch fell off. The fish is doing better now and I treated with prazipro on thursday. I've read that you treat for 7 days and then treat a second time. Do you wait a period between treating for the 2nd time?
I was going to just do a large water change, run carbon for 1 day and then immediately medicate the 2nd time. Is that the proper procedure?

This is basically what I do. Make sure your water change is 50% or greater. The only time I would alter this is if Neobenedenia flukes are suspected.

 

[steelersfan]

This is basically what I do. Make sure your water change is 50% or greater. The only time I would alter this is if Neobenedenia flukes are suspected.

I just had a quick question regarding the second treatment of Prazipro. Do you use the same dosage of Prazipro for the second treatment or do you cut it in 1/2?

Thanks

 

[Gwynhidwy]

I do a 75% water change and then dose the new water I am adding with a dose for the full volume of water in the tank (taking rock and sand displacement into account). I would be uncomfortable doing this if prazi weren't so well tolerated because I have not been able to find any information on the stability of prazipro in tank water.

 

[steelersfan]

I do a 75% water change and then dose the new water I am adding with a dose for the full volume of water in the tank (taking rock and sand displacement into account). I would be uncomfortable doing this if prazi weren't so well tolerated because I have not been able to find any information on the stability of prazipro in tank water.

As always, thank you for the information

 

[Gwynhidwy]

As always, thank you for the information

You are most welcome.

 

[jjk_reef00]

Can you explain the procedure for Neobenedenia flukes? And how they are different.
I fw dipped my angel on Tue or Wed of last week. Added prazipro on Thursday and he has been improving. Today he started breathing heavy and shaking his head a little more. Also isn't eating a whole lot. I'm getting worried again!

 

[Gwynhidwy]

Can you explain the procedure for Neobenedenia flukes? And how they are different.
I fw dipped my angel on Tue or Wed of last week. Added prazipro on Thursday and he has been improving. Today he started breathing heavy and shaking his head a little more. Also isn't eating a whole lot. I'm getting worried again!

The problem with Neobenedenia flukes is their eggs. The eggs are not killed by the prazi and because they can take a while to 'hatch', you need to keep the tank medicated for longer than normal. Once the eggs mature and the flukes are released, the prazi takes care of them. There are a few different protocols, but I would do two 14 day rounds with a large water change in between. That gives you 28 days of treatment, which as far as I know should be sufficient.

I'm not sure this is what is wrong with your fish though, as if the prazi is at the correct dosage in the water the flukes shouldn't be reinfecting the fish heavily and any that do should be killed relatively quickly. Have you done water changes to the tank? If so, did you redose the water you added to the tank? Are you running any chemical filter media? Are you using a protein skimmer? UV? Did you shake the bottle of the prazi VERY well before use?

 

[jjk_reef00]

Water change last week Monday. I did a fw dip last Tuesday and a bunch of flukes fell off. Over 100 of them. Wed. he still had a bad looking eye. Thursday I dosed prazipro removed all my carbon, turned all other reactors off, skimmer, and uv off. The fish was doing much better. Then yesterday he only picked at food and it seemed he was shaking his head a little again (not violently). He was still very active, and actually more active than I had seen him in the past week. He flared up at my tang and chased him out of his corner of the tank which is a good sign. However he was breathing heavy for quite a while last night.

I watched this fish for 3-4 weeks at the LSF before I brought him home and he looked fine. 2, or 3 weeks later this happened.

My main concern is that he will stop eating. I don't know if I should put him into a qt tank? My current qt tank is a 55 gallon tank and this queen is 11" and will be very cramped in there. I'm trying to get a used 125 as we speak.

Any ideas about what else he could have? I know he had flukes because I saw them. The other fish all seem to be fine and are eating everything.

I plan to do a large water change this Thursday. That will be 1 week.
I really appreciate all of your help with this!

 

[Gwynhidwy]

You are most welcome, I am always happy to try to help.

Is he still breathing heavy? If it comes and goes, it is likely from excitement, nervousness or exercise. Fish that are breathing heavily from parasite infestation or disease usually breathe heavy pretty continually once they start.

What are you feeding? How often? Does the fish have access to algae based foods/nori? If so, does he eat it?

 

[jjk_reef00]

I will check him when I get home to see if he is still breathing heavy.
I feed dainichi pellets in the morning, a mix between the red bag (marine fx) and green bag(reef veggie fx). Usually he will eat a good amount of that. Today he only ate 2-4 pellets. (the small pellets, not baby)
I usually feed a sheet of nori soaked in vita-chem. Since he has gotten sick he doesn't eat a whole lot of nori. He just looks at it and tries to decide if he should eat it or not. I gave him a little this morning and he ate a little piece.

Same thing with shrimp I give him. (He use to eat it right away). Now he looks at it and often doesn't eat it.
I also feed Mysis, or prime reef, or formula-one (the red stuff) at night. Last night I tried the red formula one and he didn't even look at it. Today I will be feeding frozen mysis because he was eagerly eating that 2 days ago.

Sometime I give him frezedried krill but I haven't been doing that because he always liked the shrimp more.

I usually feed 3-4 times a day. I have an auto feeder for pellets once a day but I took it off since I've been medicating.

All my water params are fine ph is a little low at 7.8 but my sps are doing fine.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

If he's still breathing heavy, I would be concerned, but without further symptoms I wouldn't know what is wrong. You could try doing another dip and/or feeding some medicated pellets with metronidazole as it treats some types of internal parasites that prazi doesn't. You could also try soaking your foods in Selcon or garlic. If he was eating the mysis well, I'd definitely give that another go. I've had the best luck getting fish that are reluctant to eat to accept frozen scallop and clam that I thaw, blend well in a food processor with some Selcon, and then refreeze. I have also had good luck getting picky angels to eat Hikari's frozen Mega-marine Angel formula. It has these funny pieces that look like pink Cheetos, but all of my angels have thought they were great. You might also want to start a new thread for this and see if anyone else has some ideas.

Personally I wouldn't move him to quarantine unless you start to see other symptoms, the other fish are harassing him, or someone else has ideas as to what you could treat him with. Sorry, I know that's not much help.