PRIMARY LED lit Custom glass tank
- Thread starter zachtos
- Start date
miatawnt2b
New member
Ahhhhh the old AC vs. DC discussion. Where's Tesla when you need him.
-J
-J
BruiseAndy
New member
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99680.htm
http://pchem.scs.uiuc.edu/pchemlab/electric.htm
A/C is more dangerous than DC and A/C is most dangerous at around 60Hz(what everyone in the states typically uses).
http://pchem.scs.uiuc.edu/pchemlab/electric.htm
A/C is more dangerous than DC and A/C is most dangerous at around 60Hz(what everyone in the states typically uses).
melev
Well-known member
I've never read so much about LEDs in one sitting in my life. 
I have to say this thread has been very interesting.
#1) spray foam is perfectly fine in the tank once it cures, and there was even an interesting article about it in Reefkeeping Online about two years ago. There are tanks running right now with the black foam (sidewinder's 375g reef) that look great.
#2) GE Silicone II without mold inhibitors is perfectly fine. They have two versions of "II", so just read the tube to make sure you have the right one. Let it cure 24 hours before adding water.
The LED arrays you made look fantastic. Sorry some of them are shutting down on you, as that was a lot of work. This was a very interesting thread to read, and see what occured over the past 60 days.
Eggcrate is available at Home Depot in the lighting department, but your LFS could probably give you a small piece if you still needed it.
I don't even want to know how you managed to pee in a teaspoon. Twice! Talk about control... :lol:
Keep up the good work. It is definitely fascinating. When I was at MACNA last fall, there was a small 5g tank with a 6 LED fixture. It had tiny LED ballasts. Here's a few pictures. I guess the aluminum heatsink keep the bulbs cool, btw.
Based on Dana Riddle's talk about running moonlight LEDs 24/7 and actually bleaching corals where the light beam hits it precisely, I was thinking you could plug your power supply into a timer. When the timer is on, the LEDs will all run. When the white LEDs cut off, the blues are still on for a couple of hours - great idea, btw. Then the timer turns off and the blue LEDs turn off as well, giving the corals some rest in total darkness.
I hope your project continues to work out as planned. :thumbsup:
I have to say this thread has been very interesting.
#1) spray foam is perfectly fine in the tank once it cures, and there was even an interesting article about it in Reefkeeping Online about two years ago. There are tanks running right now with the black foam (sidewinder's 375g reef) that look great.
#2) GE Silicone II without mold inhibitors is perfectly fine. They have two versions of "II", so just read the tube to make sure you have the right one. Let it cure 24 hours before adding water.
The LED arrays you made look fantastic. Sorry some of them are shutting down on you, as that was a lot of work. This was a very interesting thread to read, and see what occured over the past 60 days.
Eggcrate is available at Home Depot in the lighting department, but your LFS could probably give you a small piece if you still needed it.
I don't even want to know how you managed to pee in a teaspoon. Twice! Talk about control... :lol:
Keep up the good work. It is definitely fascinating. When I was at MACNA last fall, there was a small 5g tank with a 6 LED fixture. It had tiny LED ballasts. Here's a few pictures. I guess the aluminum heatsink keep the bulbs cool, btw.
Based on Dana Riddle's talk about running moonlight LEDs 24/7 and actually bleaching corals where the light beam hits it precisely, I was thinking you could plug your power supply into a timer. When the timer is on, the LEDs will all run. When the white LEDs cut off, the blues are still on for a couple of hours - great idea, btw. Then the timer turns off and the blue LEDs turn off as well, giving the corals some rest in total darkness.
I hope your project continues to work out as planned. :thumbsup:
Nice job, will be interesting to see how LED use progresses in the coming years. I'd love to see the costs come down & start to replace house lighting
I guess I'm just not into putting that much effort into a nano
But you have to start somewhere!!
I guess I'm just not into putting that much effort into a nano
But you have to start somewhere!!
badpacket
Premium Member
Whoops, did some checking an it looks like the Man From Buffalo is wrong. PS, I'm from the Buffalo area myself, and I guess I mis-remembered this from school as well.
From Merck:
"The type of current affects the severity of the injury. In general, direct current (DC), which has zero frequency but may be intermittent or pulsating, is less dangerous than alternating current (AC), which is generally used in the USA. The effects of AC on the body depend largely on the frequency. Low-frequency currents of 50 to 60 Hz (cycles/sec), which are commonly used, are usually more dangerous than high-frequency currents and are 3 to 5 times more dangerous than DC of the same voltage and amperage. DC tends to cause a convulsive contraction, often forcing the victim away from the current's source. AC at 60 Hz (household current) produces muscle tetany, often freezing the hand to the current's source; prolonged exposure may result, with severe burns if the voltage is high.
Generally, the higher the voltage and amperage, the greater the damage from either type of current. High-voltage (> 500 to 1000 V) currents tend to cause deep burns, and low-voltage to cause freezing to the circuit. The threshold of perception for current entering the hand is about 5 to 10 milliamperes (mA) for DC and about 1 to 10 mA for AC at 60 Hz. The maximum amperage that can cause the flexors of the arm to contract but that allows a person to release his hand from the current's source is termed the let-go current. For DC, the let-go current is about 75 mA for a 70-kg man; for AC, it is about 15 mA, varying with muscle mass. A low-voltage (110 to 220 V), 60-Hz AC current traveling through the chest for a fraction of a second may induce ventricular fibrillation at amperage as low as 60 to 100 mA; about 300 to 500 mA of DC is required. If the current has a direct pathway to the heart (eg, via a cardiac catheter or pacemaker electrodes), a much lower amperage (< 1 mA, AC or DC) can produce fibrillation."
Either way, I'd prefer low-voltage DC over 110v AC in the tank area any day. Just keep them metal rings off your fingers when in the tank, and .... err never mind.
From Merck:
"The type of current affects the severity of the injury. In general, direct current (DC), which has zero frequency but may be intermittent or pulsating, is less dangerous than alternating current (AC), which is generally used in the USA. The effects of AC on the body depend largely on the frequency. Low-frequency currents of 50 to 60 Hz (cycles/sec), which are commonly used, are usually more dangerous than high-frequency currents and are 3 to 5 times more dangerous than DC of the same voltage and amperage. DC tends to cause a convulsive contraction, often forcing the victim away from the current's source. AC at 60 Hz (household current) produces muscle tetany, often freezing the hand to the current's source; prolonged exposure may result, with severe burns if the voltage is high.
Generally, the higher the voltage and amperage, the greater the damage from either type of current. High-voltage (> 500 to 1000 V) currents tend to cause deep burns, and low-voltage to cause freezing to the circuit. The threshold of perception for current entering the hand is about 5 to 10 milliamperes (mA) for DC and about 1 to 10 mA for AC at 60 Hz. The maximum amperage that can cause the flexors of the arm to contract but that allows a person to release his hand from the current's source is termed the let-go current. For DC, the let-go current is about 75 mA for a 70-kg man; for AC, it is about 15 mA, varying with muscle mass. A low-voltage (110 to 220 V), 60-Hz AC current traveling through the chest for a fraction of a second may induce ventricular fibrillation at amperage as low as 60 to 100 mA; about 300 to 500 mA of DC is required. If the current has a direct pathway to the heart (eg, via a cardiac catheter or pacemaker electrodes), a much lower amperage (< 1 mA, AC or DC) can produce fibrillation."
Either way, I'd prefer low-voltage DC over 110v AC in the tank area any day. Just keep them metal rings off your fingers when in the tank, and .... err never mind.
sttroyiii
Premium Member
Ive been an electrician for 7 years, never really full time though. I have been shocked by 110-125v AC many times, 277v AC one time, and I think it was 12v DC one time. The DC was when we were demo'ing telephone equipment and it wasnt turned off since part of the building was staying operational. To me, DC felt like a magnet holding me to the wires. It felt like it sucked my hand to it and I had to pull back on my arm to get away from it, as opposed to pulling your hand back. AC voltages around 115v (60hz) give you a fun buzz, but you can definitely feel the sine wave. I never want to be shocked by 277v again. It was my first week as an electrician, and we were in a bank. My mentor walked out of the electrical room, and left me alone for a minute. I had my arm out leaning against a panel and with my other arm I reached into a timeclock to fix a piece of tape coming off the end of a wire. I didnt realize what I was doing, I thought I was helping. Thinking back, I cant believe some dummy used tape instead of a wire nut. Anyways, the electricity went from one hand through my body to the other hand where I was grounded on the panel. It actually threw me off of it, and my arms were slapping my body all crazy. It subsided after 10 seconds or so, it felt like an eternity. It scared the hell out of me, and I was all white. The electrician knew I had done something when he came back in. Anyways, thats my story. Higher AC voltage throws you. People who have gotten electrocuted by fallen power wires are often thrown a few feet away, the distance depending on the voltage. Another thing, getting electrocuted off of a neutral can be more dangerous IMO. If you have a few amps on the circuit, and your arms complete the neutral, you get hung up really bad. It hangs you up worse than if you were grounded and touched a hot wire. Im not sure why that part is, but I had a friend who had to kick his own ladder out from underneath him because he couldnt get out of a 277v neutral. Yes, sometimes electricians have to work on hot wires, turning off a circuit isnt always an option in some situations.
I like your work on the LEDs. I think they are the future of lighting. Either those or the new fiber optic lights that bring in natural sunlight. It will be a while before those get affordable. Keep up the good work!
I like your work on the LEDs. I think they are the future of lighting. Either those or the new fiber optic lights that bring in natural sunlight. It will be a while before those get affordable. Keep up the good work!
tigerarmy40
New member
I dont know if yoiu guys have talked about this but have you thought about coming up with a design and then getting a patant? Im sure that if this succesful that someoone will be coming out with a setup very similar!!
csammis
Mental Institution
I've looked through the thread, but didn't find an answer to this...
Your banks are wired in series, so I wasn't surprised at all when I saw you had single bulb burnouts that decimated the array. Why did you go with series rather than parallel, which would keep one bulb from taking out the entire row?
Your banks are wired in series, so I wasn't surprised at all when I saw you had single bulb burnouts that decimated the array. Why did you go with series rather than parallel, which would keep one bulb from taking out the entire row?
zachtos
Active member
Ditto what fppf said: I wired in series to make the project more cost and time effective. It does have the disadvantage of taking down an entire string when one blows, but I did save money and time on power sources and resistors and soldering.
I would like to get a patent on this if that is even really legal... I don't know much about that stuff despite being an engineer. I really work for a utility company doing electric design, quite different then your traditional EE at a major company making circuits. I do it more as a hobby.
I'm in the process of getting a spectrograph to be even more precise (still no luck on tracking down a PAR mtr) but this graph should give us a good overview of the photosynthetic properties of this light source.
Thankyou for your comments. I will continually post montly photos and answer questions.
*still have new corraline growth daily, my powerhead and foam wall are starting to become covered. I only have growth on the top 6" of the tank and rockwork at this point, and alot of copepods/bugs.
I would like to get a patent on this if that is even really legal... I don't know much about that stuff despite being an engineer. I really work for a utility company doing electric design, quite different then your traditional EE at a major company making circuits. I do it more as a hobby.
I'm in the process of getting a spectrograph to be even more precise (still no luck on tracking down a PAR mtr) but this graph should give us a good overview of the photosynthetic properties of this light source.
Thankyou for your comments. I will continually post montly photos and answer questions.
*still have new corraline growth daily, my powerhead and foam wall are starting to become covered. I only have growth on the top 6" of the tank and rockwork at this point, and alot of copepods/bugs.
scubaduderon
Member
An Idea for you
An Idea for you
Why don't you mount the LED's in an eggcrate panel. Snug them in or hit em with a little glue. Heat would be greatly reduced by increased circulation. No more holes to drill....
I'm interested. I was in the process of designing a new hood for my tank but now you've got me going on a tangent. I bleieve a setup like this can work.
Great Work!
Ron
An Idea for you
Why don't you mount the LED's in an eggcrate panel. Snug them in or hit em with a little glue. Heat would be greatly reduced by increased circulation. No more holes to drill....
I'm interested. I was in the process of designing a new hood for my tank but now you've got me going on a tangent. I bleieve a setup like this can work.
Great Work!
Ron
scubaduderon
Member
Have you seen these?
Have you seen these?
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc36brwh1.html
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc36brwh.html
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc18ledl.html
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc18uvuv.html
I havene't read the entire thread so forgive me if I have duplicated your or any other posts.
Thanks,
Ron
Have you seen these?
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc36brwh1.html
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc36brwh.html
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc18ledl.html
http://store.advancedmart.com/11acsc18uvuv.html
I havene't read the entire thread so forgive me if I have duplicated your or any other posts.
Thanks,
Ron
zachtos
Active member
This tank has not been at any shows.
Eggcrate is too large, and glue is a bad idea for maintenance purposes. I used a pre-drilled sheet of polyplastic from usplastics.com, I had to do a quick once over on the 4.7mm holes to widen them to 5mm. The LEDs fit snugly w/o glue. The re-drilling only took 30min to do around 400 holes, the stuff cuts like butter and doesnt melt.
Haven't seen those AC bulbs before but I doubt that they last as long running on AC compared to DC. The price of those is too high and the bulbs too few. One of my earlier posts showed a bulb from besthongkong.com which is the same price and far superior.
Do you think $500 would be too much to ask for if people started asking me to build these? ($200 parts, $300 for 20hrs labor to construct an array that would light a standard 2.5G aquarium or a 12x6" footprint fans/psupply/moonlight included)
Eggcrate is too large, and glue is a bad idea for maintenance purposes. I used a pre-drilled sheet of polyplastic from usplastics.com, I had to do a quick once over on the 4.7mm holes to widen them to 5mm. The LEDs fit snugly w/o glue. The re-drilling only took 30min to do around 400 holes, the stuff cuts like butter and doesnt melt.
Haven't seen those AC bulbs before but I doubt that they last as long running on AC compared to DC. The price of those is too high and the bulbs too few. One of my earlier posts showed a bulb from besthongkong.com which is the same price and far superior.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6512271#post6512271 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zachtos
2" bulb made of ultrabrite LEDs 40,000mcd x 48 for under $20 ea, just plug em into a 12Vdc powersupply!
available in MULTIPLE colors
now you dont even need to solder... they also sell pre wired Blue LEDs individually that you could use to accent these.
of course I found out about these after I ordered my single LEDs. I'll let you know in a week how they turn out.
Do you think $500 would be too much to ask for if people started asking me to build these? ($200 parts, $300 for 20hrs labor to construct an array that would light a standard 2.5G aquarium or a 12x6" footprint fans/psupply/moonlight included)
jnarowe
New member
Charge whatever you want. Very few people can take that kind of time or have the ability to solder with any accuracy. The value comes from the long life and energy savings. I looked into building an array for my tank, but in order to get enough light, the cost was in the stratosphere. Just not worth it yet unfortunately. The problem you will encounter of course, is cost vs. benefit on such a small tank. You will have to come up with some sort of energy savings chart to market the arrays.
Once you have your design down and can develop a finished looking array, you can contract to have them made and go into business. There is a good future in what you are working on and it just takes some nads to follow it through. I hope you will work on arrays of a much larger dimension. That is where the real energy savings can make it a profitable venture for you.
Once you have your design down and can develop a finished looking array, you can contract to have them made and go into business. There is a good future in what you are working on and it just takes some nads to follow it through. I hope you will work on arrays of a much larger dimension. That is where the real energy savings can make it a profitable venture for you.
zachtos
Active member
Energy savings is one benefit, but the major benefits i thought were:
1. no yearly bulb replacements
2. small heat generation
3. superior to PC and comparable to 250W MH
no way you can cram over 150W in a 2.5G w/o major issues from heat and evaporation. you would have to suspend it 1-2' over the tank, thusly dropping the light to a LUX less then the LEDs which are contained in a neat hood 1-2" over the water.
I think this is an easy mod for ppl that have those 6G eclipses/JBJ nanocubes or smaller.
I'm looking into getting a clam again, a maxima maybe. Nice High Light clam and keeping it in there for a year or so then moving into a bigger tank. I just dont know if that will really PROVE that you can keep a clam under the 12,000LUX LEDs or not, considering that they need phytoplankton more then light under 3"... I will also start a culture of phyto again (iso/nano chloropsis)
1. no yearly bulb replacements
2. small heat generation
3. superior to PC and comparable to 250W MH
no way you can cram over 150W in a 2.5G w/o major issues from heat and evaporation. you would have to suspend it 1-2' over the tank, thusly dropping the light to a LUX less then the LEDs which are contained in a neat hood 1-2" over the water.
I think this is an easy mod for ppl that have those 6G eclipses/JBJ nanocubes or smaller.
I'm looking into getting a clam again, a maxima maybe. Nice High Light clam and keeping it in there for a year or so then moving into a bigger tank. I just dont know if that will really PROVE that you can keep a clam under the 12,000LUX LEDs or not, considering that they need phytoplankton more then light under 3"... I will also start a culture of phyto again (iso/nano chloropsis)
