Problems with my reef, oh so many problems..

[leeransetton]

Hi,

I don't know if this is the right forum to post, so apologies in advance.

A little background. I started my reef on 1/12/13, planned to be mostly SPS dominated tank, with this equipment:
Aquarium size: 80 cm (length) / 50 cm (width) / 60 cm (height) = 240L display. Imperial: 31.5"/19.7"/23.6" = 63.4 us gallon.
Orphek Nilus LED fixture (was hung too close to the water surface at first, but I raised it afterwards)
2 Jebao wp-25
Filter sock
BM Curve 7
BM return pump (4300 l/h)
Eden pump (300 l/h) for the chiller and the BioPlastic
XR-M with TLF BioPlastic
Hilea chiller HC-300A
Jager (don't remember how much Watts.. 200 or 300)
Dry rocks
TLF Live sand (fine grain)
2 bags of ceramic media in the sump
TLF C-Balance (with automated dosing pump)
TLF Carbon - 3 hours a day. Very slow flow and the flow goes back into the filter sock so there are no particles floating in the water
I dose these as well:
TLF amino acids - once a day
Brightwell Koralle-VM - once a day (1/4 tsp)
Brightwell KoralColor - twice a week (1/2 tsp)
BioDigest - once every other week (1 vial)
Feeding with Brightwell MicroVore once a week

At first the parameters weren't stable (alk, cal, mag), but it was ok later.
I bought more that a dozen of SPS corals and some clams, all died within days to weeks.
I try to keep my nutrients as low as possible (both are zero).

Then I thought that the LEDs were my problem, so I bought 2 fixtures of 4 T5 by Giesemann (4 actinic blue, 3 azure, 1 coral).
Since then I had a little accident and raised my calcium to 500 ppm. Ever since the accident, the parameters are very stable on: Alk=8.176, Ca=466, Mg=1350, Po4=0, No3=0, S.G.=1.025.
I test Alk, Ca and Po4 with Hanna, Mg and No4 with Salifert and salinity with Milwaukee.

Since then, I bought several SPS corals but they all don't look so good.. I don't see polyps, and they became a bit more brown.

Another Problem of mine is algae. I got my overflow filled with green hairy algae, but it's ok because I harvest once a week. Also, the algae covers all the rocks in the aquarium (Red hairy algae and some cyanobacteria).
I think it has something to do with my fish:
Redhead wrasse
Leopard wrasse
Yellow-Flanked fairy wrasse
some other rather small and red-ish wrasse
Blenny Midas
Blenny bi-color
5 med-big clownfish (I think percula, but maybe ocellaris)
Azure demselfish
Blue reef chromis
Pseudochromis fridmani
Marine beta
2 Fire shrimps
Lysmata shrimp
3 hermit crabs
3 conches
3-4 Turbo snails
Nassarius snail
Maybe they are too much, but I don't know...
Perhaps the problems aren't too big, but having a reef tank (which cost quite a lot) that I'm not satisfied with for more than a year is quite of a mood killer..


Tl;dr:
SPS keep dying
LPS (acan and symph) look good
Lot's and lot's of disgusting algae
Thanks for reading and thanks for your help, guys!

 

[Spar]

I am not familiar with your lighting choice, so hopefully others will chime in.

First big problem is that you are keeping NO3 and PO4 at 0. This seems to plague a lot of new tank owners due to interpreting (or reading other interpretations) that 'low' means 'zero' for those parameters. Unfortunately, zero will kill your coral, or at minimum keep them from growing and will make them brown out (lose color). You should be keeping NO3 between 2-5ppm and PO4 between .03-.05ppm.

Before buying anymore expensive SPS, try out some of the either ones to test if you are getting things working. Digitata, Birdsnest, cheaper Monti's, etc. Stay away from Acro's especially until you know other coral are happy.

 

[Spar]

Also, stop dosing all that other crap. Just dose Alk, Calc, Mg as needed to maintain consistency. And then you can get your other nutrients through water changes (new salt). Don't dose anything that you can't measure accurately.

 

[jminick2]

brown SPS means excess nutrients and so does algae. So needless to say you may be testing 0 phosphates but that's because its getting used up right away. You are way over stocked too.. I skimmed through quickly so I might of missed it but do you not run GFO?

 

[jminick2]

I am not familiar with your lighting choice, so hopefully others will chime in.

First big problem is that you are keeping NO3 and PO4 at 0. This seems to plague a lot of new tank owners due to interpreting (or reading other interpretations) that 'low' means 'zero' for those parameters. Unfortunately, zero will kill your coral, or at minimum keep them from growing and will make them brown out (lose color). You should be keeping NO3 between 2-5ppm and PO4 between .03-.05ppm.

Before buying anymore expensive SPS, try out some of the either ones to test if you are getting things working. Digitata, Birdsnest, cheaper Monti's, etc. Stay away from Acro's especially until you know other coral are happy.

You really think he has 0 phos and 0 nitrates with 15 fish in a 60g and "lots and lots" of algae ?

 

[DieselJunkie]

15(quick count) fish? - I would imagine this contributes to a LOT of the algae (through the massive amount of dietus in the small space along with the amount of food to sustain them)

Lots of random stuff you are pouring in your tank.

SPS is pretty simple, give them good flow, I personally like around 40-50 times turnover in the water, from 4-5 sources over 2 pumps and a return going nuts.

Also - pictures would help

 

[TheDeepSandBed]

My first thought is that if you have algae problems your nutrients arent as low as you may think (or are low because the algae are eating them all.

What are your feeding habits? Maybe try less food.

Also what are your lighting schedules and coral distance from the lights?

 

[leeransetton]

I am not familiar with your lighting choice, so hopefully others will chime in.

First big problem is that you are keeping NO3 and PO4 at 0. This seems to plague a lot of new tank owners due to interpreting (or reading other interpretations) that 'low' means 'zero' for those parameters. Unfortunately, zero will kill your coral, or at minimum keep them from growing and will make them brown out (lose color). You should be keeping NO3 between 2-5ppm and PO4 between .03-.05ppm.

Before buying anymore expensive SPS, try out some of the either ones to test if you are getting things working. Digitata, Birdsnest, cheaper Monti's, etc. Stay away from Acro's especially until you know other coral are happy.

As other people said, it's not really zero, because of the algae..
I had digitata - dead. Got a new frag, let's see how it lasts. Monti - the red plate, became light in color, but not dead yet. I will stay away from acros as you suggested..

Also, stop dosing all that other crap. Just dose Alk, Calc, Mg as needed to maintain consistency. And then you can get your other nutrients through water changes (new salt). Don't dose anything that you can't measure accurately.

Got it

brown SPS means excess nutrients and so does algae. So needless to say you may be testing 0 phosphates but that's because its getting used up right away. You are way over stocked too.. I skimmed through quickly so I might of missed it but do you not run GFO?

I don't run GFO, but I have one. should I run it? I use BioPlastic.

15(quick count) fish? - I would imagine this contributes to a LOT of the algae (through the massive amount of dietus in the small space along with the amount of food to sustain them)

Lots of random stuff you are pouring in your tank.

SPS is pretty simple, give them good flow, I personally like around 40-50 times turnover in the water, from 4-5 sources over 2 pumps and a return going nuts.

Also - pictures would help

18, actually, but most of them are not that big (unlike tnags and triggers).
Random stuff - will stop that.
I use 2 Jebao wp-25 (according to the manufacturer, it's 8000 l/h, but i really think they are not that strong.. maybe got old) so 2 of those alone give 16000 l/h, which is 66.66 times my DT. My mili's polyps look good and in a good movement, however, other parts of my DT get weaker flows.

My first thought is that if you have algae problems your nutrients arent as low as you may think (or are low because the algae are eating them all.

What are your feeding habits? Maybe try less food.

Also what are your lighting schedules and coral distance from the lights?

Feeding 2-3 times a day. Twice Aquarium Munster Dr. Nassleer Biofish Food forte (expired 09/2014. is that a problem?). Sometimes I feed O.S.I Spirulina flakes. I feed a very small amount every time..

Lighting schedule:
1/2 hour: 1 actinic and 1 white
7 hours: 4 actinic and 4 white
1/2 hour: 1 actinic and 1 white

 

[Tigerdragon]

Too high of nutient import and not enough nutrient export. Not enough cuc. Waay too many fish for a 63 gal tank. And yes just because test readings say 0 on po4 and nitrates the algae is the tell tale sign that your nutrient level is high. How often and how big of water changes are you doing? I would either put gfo on or start carbon dosing.

 

[snorvich]

Too high of nutient import and not enough nutrient export. Not enough cuc. Waay too many fish for a 63 gal tank. And yes just because test readings say 0 on po4 and nitrates the algae is the tell tale sign that your nutrient level is high. How often and how big of water changes are you doing? I would either put gfo on or start carbon dosing.

As with others above, this.

 

[addictedreefer]

+1. Far too many fish.

 

[Reefwithareefer]

I had a similar issue. I am fairly new to the hobby (1 yr) and could not figure out things either.
My "parameters" were all good yet I had lots of brownish colored, dusty like algae covering my glass. In one day, this algae limited seeing into my tank by about 40%. My corals always seemed to be up and down health wise as well, some dying or poor color.

Everyone said it must be nutrients. I understood why they said that but did not really understand how it could be. I only fed my fish once a day, and only enough that it was gone in a minute, with very little hitting the sand.

I had lots of water flow from the DT to sump and back, ample powerheads, pushing tons of water around in the tank.

I had a 180 , with 12 fish, 25 snails and crabs etc and a few shrimp.

My sand bed was approx 3 inches deep and covered in this dust as well. No not a jelly disease...

I figured it must be my sand bed holding nutrients, causing the algae and dying corals etc., so I took out about two inches of it and not much change at all. I did not realize how dirty sand could get so quickly. I never knew I should clean it regularily, so now I do. The tank also sat close to a window and had tons of indirect sunlight for approx 8 hours, so I started to close the curtains, with very little change. I then moved the power-heads so they blew detritus off the sand bed, little or no change.....changed metal halide bulbs and had them on for less time and at different times, hardly a change..

Added all sorts of media filters, like 100 and 200 micron pads, carbon pads, lime mesh etc etc, still very little change

I was running bio pellets and changed to GFO, I was also running small amounts of carbon , so I ran more, took out the sand in my sump, put critters in my sump etc etc. Still no change really.

There was overall change by doing all these things, but it only helped by about 35% of the algae, while the corals were on and off, health wise. ..

It got to be very frustrating... I just happened to find a 300 gal tank for a song and decided I would upgrade, thinking that would help solve the issues

Ripped everything out, got new sand, cleaned all reactors, dosers, new sump socks, filter media was all replaced, 60% water changed, switch to IO reef and on and on..

For the first two weeks or so the water was perfectly clear, no algae, the corals etc were looking great and then it all happened again...Nutrients and the dusty brown algae forming on the glass and sand bed, dirty water ..UGH

The only thing I had not done up to that point was change the live rock...I have approx 200 lbs in the DT and 100 in the sump.

That is when it kind of dawned on me...When I took all the rock out the original tank while swapping tanks, it made the water fairly dirty, and the same when I stored it in barrels while swapping.

I had the barrel in the basement still and I went down and looked in it and there was this "sludge" at the bottom of the barrel. It was probably about a 3/16" deep. Not a ton, but quite a bit considering I never shook or cleaned the rock thru the whole process of swapping tanks. I never wanted to kill good bacteria, organisms or the critters that may have been hiding in crevices.

I assumed that the sludge was detritus and other bad stuff that grew the algae. By not cleaning the rocks, I now figure that I had just put a bunch of crap back into the tank.

Before I started to take all the rock out of all tanks, I decided to just start with the sump. Took all the rock out of sump and put in barrel. I then shook the crap out of each rock and used a strong powerhead to blow water onto each rock (which removed stuff that was stuck to rock and in crevices) while removing them from the barrel. All rocks were placed back into sump, one by one. I left the filthy water in the barrel to settle over night.

I looked into the barrel the next morning and I could not believe the amount of crap there was at the bottom of the barrel. All this in my rocks and which I could only assume was bad.

I then did all rocks in the DT, by just using a powerhead to stir up the crap in the rocks, so they did not have to be removed from the tank. My water became filthy quite quickly, so I only did a small area each day. Each day I had to replace my 200 micron filter media as well.
In the end, after a few weeks, I could see a huge difference. The algae is just about all gone and not returning...

It took me doing all those things and cleaning my rocks to get rid of the nutrients, that created the algae and "dirty water. Now the lights can get thru the clean water, helping the corals etc grow.
Since doing all this and the light being better, I can now tell when each coral likes where it is placed and move them around till they tell me they like it there or not, just by the color and overall look of them

Sorry for being long winded, just thought it might help your endeavour.

 

[leeransetton]

Too high of nutient import and not enough nutrient export. Not enough cuc. Waay too many fish for a 63 gal tank. And yes just because test readings say 0 on po4 and nitrates the algae is the tell tale sign that your nutrient level is high. How often and how big of water changes are you doing? I would either put gfo on or start carbon dosing.

What is cuc?
Water change - 10% every month.
I use BioPlastic, should I add gfo as well?

I had a similar issue. I am fairly new to the hobby (1 yr) and could not figure out things either.
My "parameters" were all good yet I had lots of brownish colored, dusty like algae covering my glass. In one day, this algae limited seeing into my tank by about 40%. My corals always seemed to be up and down health wise as well, some dying or poor color.

Everyone said it must be nutrients. I understood why they said that but did not really understand how it could be. I only fed my fish once a day, and only enough that it was gone in a minute, with very little hitting the sand.

I had lots of water flow from the DT to sump and back, ample powerheads, pushing tons of water around in the tank.

I had a 180 , with 12 fish, 25 snails and crabs etc and a few shrimp.

My sand bed was approx 3 inches deep and covered in this dust as well. No not a jelly disease...

I figured it must be my sand bed holding nutrients, causing the algae and dying corals etc., so I took out about two inches of it and not much change at all. I did not realize how dirty sand could get so quickly. I never knew I should clean it regularily, so now I do. The tank also sat close to a window and had tons of indirect sunlight for approx 8 hours, so I started to close the curtains, with very little change. I then moved the power-heads so they blew detritus off the sand bed, little or no change.....changed metal halide bulbs and had them on for less time and at different times, hardly a change..

Added all sorts of media filters, like 100 and 200 micron pads, carbon pads, lime mesh etc etc, still very little change

I was running bio pellets and changed to GFO, I was also running small amounts of carbon , so I ran more, took out the sand in my sump, put critters in my sump etc etc. Still no change really.

There was overall change by doing all these things, but it only helped by about 35% of the algae, while the corals were on and off, health wise. ..

It got to be very frustrating... I just happened to find a 300 gal tank for a song and decided I would upgrade, thinking that would help solve the issues

Ripped everything out, got new sand, cleaned all reactors, dosers, new sump socks, filter media was all replaced, 60% water changed, switch to IO reef and on and on..

For the first two weeks or so the water was perfectly clear, no algae, the corals etc were looking great and then it all happened again...Nutrients and the dusty brown algae forming on the glass and sand bed, dirty water ..UGH

The only thing I had not done up to that point was change the live rock...I have approx 200 lbs in the DT and 100 in the sump.

That is when it kind of dawned on me...When I took all the rock out the original tank while swapping tanks, it made the water fairly dirty, and the same when I stored it in barrels while swapping.

I had the barrel in the basement still and I went down and looked in it and there was this "sludge" at the bottom of the barrel. It was probably about a 3/16" deep. Not a ton, but quite a bit considering I never shook or cleaned the rock thru the whole process of swapping tanks. I never wanted to kill good bacteria, organisms or the critters that may have been hiding in crevices.

I assumed that the sludge was detritus and other bad stuff that grew the algae. By not cleaning the rocks, I now figure that I had just put a bunch of crap back into the tank.

Before I started to take all the rock out of all tanks, I decided to just start with the sump. Took all the rock out of sump and put in barrel. I then shook the crap out of each rock and used a strong powerhead to blow water onto each rock (which removed stuff that was stuck to rock and in crevices) while removing them from the barrel. All rocks were placed back into sump, one by one. I left the filthy water in the barrel to settle over night.

I looked into the barrel the next morning and I could not believe the amount of crap there was at the bottom of the barrel. All this in my rocks and which I could only assume was bad.

I then did all rocks in the DT, by just using a powerhead to stir up the crap in the rocks, so they did not have to be removed from the tank. My water became filthy quite quickly, so I only did a small area each day. Each day I had to replace my 200 micron filter media as well.
In the end, after a few weeks, I could see a huge difference. The algae is just about all gone and not returning...

It took me doing all those things and cleaning my rocks to get rid of the nutrients, that created the algae and "dirty water. Now the lights can get thru the clean water, helping the corals etc grow.
Since doing all this and the light being better, I can now tell when each coral likes where it is placed and move them around till they tell me they like it there or not, just by the color and overall look of them

Sorry for being long winded, just thought it might help your endeavour.

Thanks for taking the time to write this story!
I will clean my sump and rock this weekend. Thanks a lot!


Does removing 3 clownfish and 1 Fridmani be ok? That will leave me with 14 fish (some of them are quite small)

 

[addictedreefer]

Still overstocked. Water changes are also inadequate given the bio-load. Even with 14 fish, you would need to do something like 30% weekly to keep things reasonably clean.

 

[Jim.mer]

I've been in this hobby for over 10 years and keep reading these stories. This hobby is hard not easy, To have a great SPS tank takes experience. Of course his nutrients are high and his Phos and Nitrate can't be 0. First thing. STOP killing Coral, Stop dosing what you don't under stand. Dose Calcium, Alk and Mag. And if you want to dose something. Get some Coral Snow. If all we had to do is buy some Coral and put it in the tank, then where is the Challenge. I'm a LPS Guru, Not SPS maybe some but easy stuff. Please think about it. Sorry if I seem a bit off But really come on.

 

[leeransetton]

Still overstocked. Water changes are also inadequate given the bio-load. Even with 14 fish, you would need to do something like 30% weekly to keep things reasonably clean.

how many fish can I keep?

I've been in this hobby for over 10 years and keep reading these stories. This hobby is hard not easy, To have a great SPS tank takes experience. Of course his nutrients are high and his Phos and Nitrate can't be 0. First thing. STOP killing Coral, Stop dosing what you don't under stand. Dose Calcium, Alk and Mag. And if you want to dose something. Get some Coral Snow. If all we had to do is buy some Coral and put it in the tank, then where is the Challenge. I'm a LPS Guru, Not SPS maybe some but easy stuff. Please think about it. Sorry if I seem a bit off But really come on.

It's not like I'm killing the on purpose...
I will stop dosing the Brightwell Koralle-VM and Brightwell KoralColor, got it

 

[rtecanoe]

if your using a filter sock, make sure you change it out with a clean one every 2 or 3 days, otherwise its worse than not having one. It just holds the crap in the tank instead of removing it, causing high phosphates

cuc = clean up crew

 

[nemodan]

I am curious about the fish number in this thread.

I am trying to growth SPS mainly and have 10 fish (3 medium size -Yellow Tang, male anthia and wrasse- all the others are smaller). The tank has a real water volume of 75 G (after sand/rock).

Is that too many fish ?

Thanks

 

[addictedreefer]

how many fish can I keep?



It's not like I'm killing the on purpose...
I will stop dosing the Brightwell Koralle-VM and Brightwell KoralColor, got it

Depends on the size, but given your existing stock, to give you a sense, something like the leopard wrasse, fairy wrasse, two clowns, the fridimani and maybe a small goby.

 

[jminick2]

I am curious about the fish number in this thread.

I am trying to growth SPS mainly and have 10 fish (3 medium size -Yellow Tang, male anthia and wrasse- all the others are smaller). The tank has a real water volume of 75 G (after sand/rock).

Is that too many fish ?

Thanks

Most will say that's too many, especially with three tangs. The tang police will be after you hardcore for having 3 of them in a 75.