Problems

Steve, we are lacking a nice guide for fish diseases ! or maybe I cant find one ... but as knowledgeable as you are, it might be a good Idea to prepare a guide, lets say with pics of different diseases and how to deal with them ...

the sticky on disease forums are nice, but they lack the visual part ...
 
Try to avoid as many problems as I can afford. When a problem arrises, which at some point it always does for me, I try to dissect and find the root cause as opposed to treating the symptoms. Case in point: a cyano outbreak. I can remove it all day, but the truth is, I may have become overzealous with feeding or I need to stop putting off replacing the RO/DI filters.
 
Im definitely someone who tries to avoid problems and keep the simplest energy efficient system possible. For starters I went FO so no headaches dealing with corals, I also lightly stocked my tank so less water quality issues.

I have no sump just two canister filters that sit with one on each end of the tank and are never opened (no media). I run an external skimmer that sits next to the tank and easy to clean.

When I built the fish room I raised the floor 2' above ground so that I have easy access to the top of the tank. I just wanted a low maintenance tank with a few healthy fish (nothing expensive either).

I only spend a few hrs a week on maintenance and as long as I QT any additional fish everything should be fine. I have a generator but would love to install an auto start one in the next yr or so.

I like to go out of town alot and although my neighbor nows how to start the generator I am uncomfortable with the thought of him actually having to deal with a power outage. Just being able to travel and not worry about the tank is my ultimate goal.
 
Steve, we are lacking a nice guide for fish diseases ! or maybe I cant find one ... but as knowledgeable as you are, it might be a good Idea to prepare a guide, lets say with pics of different diseases and how to deal with them ...

the sticky on disease forums are nice, but they lack the visual part ...

An excellent idea. If I had unrestricted images for parasites, etc, I might consider it. As it is, my blog has a lot of information on this subject.
 
I think that the key is trying to isolate scenarios we might encounter and can possible control. And then figure out possible solutions we can keep on the shelf.
 
An excellent idea. If I had unrestricted images for parasites, etc, I might consider it. As it is, my blog has a lot of information on this subject.

yes, have read your blog some years back ... its great.

I'll see how much imagines I can gather with permission and once its in a good size, I will get back to you :)
 
yes, have read your blog some years back ... its great.

I'll see how much imagines I can gather with permission and once its in a good size, I will get back to you :)

At which point we can collaborate. You write, I will offer suggestions, and we can create a sticky. But any images MUST have permissions associated with them.
 
I think there's a problem, though, with nomenclature. I consider a QT to be strictly for quarantining and when you medicate, you're doing a hospital tank. I keep the two separated and rarely QT unless I have some reason to. The reason I don't QT is that I think that most if not all fish have a bunch of diseases already in them. QT is stressful to a fish and results in some of the diseases being able to get out and attack the fish due to depressed immune systems. Rather than QT, for most fish I'll do an isolation tank instead, where it's connected to my system and has a lot of rock for it to hide in and graze on and no lighting. This allows the fish to relax and adjust while its immune system recovers. When I do QT, I always have sponge filters sitting in my sump to use on the QT so that I have some bacteria in there. Running a QT without any sort of biological filter is a toxic mess waiting to happen, at least in my opinion.

When doing a QT, really, it's an observation system so that you can see what problems you need to treat. Treating prophylacticly (sp?) is not the best because you're not sure what you're treating for. Again, though, to be fully effective, you'd need to QT EVERYTHING, rock, sand, plants, inverts, etc.. Even then, though, who's to say that when you introduce the organism, whatever it may be, it won't still be carrying some sort of pathogen?

Hard question to answer here, but really it turns into a matter of opinion. One person said there's some that never learn - true - but some may never need to learn because of experiences that indicate you shouldn't qt.

Regardless, it's always a good idea to be prepared in case you need to do something. One philosophy doesn't always fit one person's tank every single time.
 
I think there's a problem, though, with nomenclature. I consider a QT to be strictly for quarantining and when you medicate, you're doing a hospital tank. I keep the two separated and rarely QT unless I have some reason to. The reason I don't QT is that I think that most if not all fish have a bunch of diseases already in them. QT is stressful to a fish and results in some of the diseases being able to get out and attack the fish due to depressed immune systems. Rather than QT, for most fish I'll do an isolation tank instead, where it's connected to my system and has a lot of rock for it to hide in and graze on and no lighting. This allows the fish to relax and adjust while its immune system recovers. When I do QT, I always have sponge filters sitting in my sump to use on the QT so that I have some bacteria in there. Running a QT without any sort of biological filter is a toxic mess waiting to happen, at least in my opinion.

When doing a QT, really, it's an observation system so that you can see what problems you need to treat. Treating prophylacticly (sp?) is not the best because you're not sure what you're treating for. Again, though, to be fully effective, you'd need to QT EVERYTHING, rock, sand, plants, inverts, etc.. Even then, though, who's to say that when you introduce the organism, whatever it may be, it won't still be carrying some sort of pathogen?

Hard question to answer here, but really it turns into a matter of opinion. One person said there's some that never learn - true - but some may never need to learn because of experiences that indicate you shouldn't qt.

Regardless, it's always a good idea to be prepared in case you need to do something. One philosophy doesn't always fit one person's tank every single time.

I personally happen to agree but most people do not. My reasoning is that most people treat (during QT) assuming cryptocaryon irritans when in fact that is the least evil of possible problems.
 
anyone think this should be a sticky?

My reasoning for creating this thread is to avoid situations that with preparation can be avoided or at least mitigated. Some preventative actions are not expensive and can really save your bacon. But if you have a large embedded base of fish and corals, measure the cost of insuring them with power outage strategies, parasite prevention strategies, and more.
 
Regarding your original question: I'm pretty conservative and take few risks with the livestock. Not just in terms of quarantine but also fish selection, introduction etc... Where I can definitely improve is in the area of redundancy. Instead of just relying on my vortech battery back up I will get a small generator this summer. :thumbsup:

RE: disease management.
IME trying to convince others about the value of quarantine is very hard. There are some well intentioned people who try proven cures, but fail due to user error.

Not sure that ignorance is the root cause of this??? Impatience, convenience, taking shortcuts all seem to contribute. Then the amount of misinformation shared between hobbyists seems to compound this problem even more. Its not as though good information isn't available, just that it seems to be neatly sidestepped for a cure thats convenient for the hobbyist and not necessarily effective for the fish. JMO. So I'm not sure what the answer is there....:confused:
 
My reasoning for creating this thread is to avoid situations that with preparation can be avoided or at least mitigated. Some preventative actions are not expensive and can really save your bacon. But if you have a large embedded base of fish and corals, measure the cost of insuring them with power outage strategies, parasite prevention strategies, and more.

This is really the place Im at in this hobby. Not so much I gotta have that coral but how to protect the livestock I already have. We had a power outage the other night that kinda got me thinking about what would have happened if I wasn't home. Ive spend so much time with these fish now they're like a dog to me. Many of them have been with me a long time. I have a generator incase of power outages but my next project is creating some kinda battery backup for my powerheads that will work in the event Im not home.
 
As far as Quarantine goes, I cant tell you how many stubborn people (some of which have been in the hobby forever) will still argue that its better for their fish to go directly in the display. Their is so many people out there that think they can cure anything with food. Im to the point where I just click to a different page cause it does no good anymore. What people dont understand is its so easy if you take your time and do it right. Not stressful at all when done correctly. and unrant.......
 
I fall into a mix of A and B.

B: For the fish as they go QT and treated prophylactically with Prazi and Cupramine. I have other meds on hand, but haven't used them.

A: For the corals and cleanup crew. These go through a brief observation period in separate QT (looking for visible pests). I'd probably go for a longer period for the corals but don't have the lights for that (don't have the auto-top off either). And no I don't advocate anyone else do this as it's a risk.

As to the question why more don't QT, I'll second the impatience and convince factors as I still fight these impulses. Though I might be better if I was dealing with a larger tank.
 
To properly QT you need an appropriately sized QT system. Reducing stress includes giving the fish room to swim. For those that religiously QT, what sort of QT system do you put a large tang into? If it's a 3" fish, shouldn't you be QTing in at least a 3' tank?

Saying that people that don't QT are stubborn is not the answer as QT is not the ultimate answer. Look at public aquariums - they typically have a 90 day QT period on every single thing, living or dead, that goes into their system. If QT is broken by adding another organism, they start the 90 day QT over again. Ever seen any fish suffering from pathogens in a public aquarium? I have.

Here's the problem with the whole thing - if you do QT properly, the fish won't have any stress and will instead be comfortable and regaining lost energy and reserves from its journey from collection to your home. That said, how many QT systems are so perfect that the fish has zero stress? Not many. If the fish has some stressors in the system (who says that a fish is comfortable in PVC pipes in bare tanks?) then it remains susceptible to pathogens and infections. When it shows these, you medicate, more often than not based on guess work. In this case you hopefully eliminate the obvious and then you theoretically are putting a pathogen free fish into your system when it is finished with treatment. On the other hand, if the fish shows no signs of stress and seems healthy, do you then put it into the tank assuming that it is disease free?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that QT is wrong at all. What I'm saying is that it's not always right. If you get a sensitive fish, are you going to stress it out by QTing? I have a pair of regals - 100% success rate with them. How many people can say that? Mine went into isolation rather than QT and they both eat whatever I offer them. Most people fail at the QT stage with them because they are too stressed to eat and cannot then recover from their journey. They typically don't show a lot of disease, they just waste away. Do I have pathogens in my system? Absolutely! Do my fish ever succumb? Knock on wood, no!

Again, it's hard to say that there is only one right way as that right way, in my opinion, is seldom done the "right way". Even those that QT, truly the point should be observing to see whether you need to treat, but how many leave their fish in QT for the entire life cycle of all normal pathogens in marine aquaria? If you do, then to be absolutely safe, you should be 6 weeks in QT (even though aquariums do 90 days).
 
A: For the corals and cleanup crew. These go through a brief observation period in separate QT (looking for visible pests). I'd probably go for a longer period for the corals but don't have the lights for that (don't have the auto-top off either). And no I don't advocate anyone else do this as it's a risk.

Do you dip all new corals? (Revive, CoralRX or equivalent)?
 

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