proposed stocklist

[BangkokMatt]

That list is much better
If you are set on the damsel's I would only add one at first and see how it goes. However, I have no experience with them but the word 'Damsel' just scares me.
Good luck!

 

[Zaita]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12808160#post12808160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flashyleopard

1 pair of banggai cadinals or a pair of firefish, if cardinals too aggressive
1 pair of clown
1 pair of flashers
3 leopards
1 Regal angelfish
3 yellow tailed demoiselles
1 orange spotted goby
5 chromis

Thats looking much better.

Bangaii Cardinals are not aggressive. Mine only show slight aggression when the male has eggs, but even then thats just a little chase of any fish (including my Blue Tang) who gets in their way. Otherwise, 100% peaceful and not picked on either.

Removal of the Mandarin and Butterfly fish is a good choice. Mandarin would more than likely starve with 5 wrasses, and the butterfly would either do the same, or snack on your corals

As someone said, the Regal Angel can snack on corals too.

You have no Tangs on that list? I'd be suggesting a Yellow, Kole or even a Blue Tang would be an awesome addition to your reef. Instead of the Yellow Tail Damsels (get 1, not 3) you could look at a Dwarf Angel (Coral Beauty, Flame Angel). They can nip at corals but tend to be for the most part reef safe.

Apart from that, the list is looking much more practical.

 

[flashyleopard]

Are these Damsels (Chrysiptera) really evil?The literature says they can be kept in small groups and are fairly peaceful?(quoteing Scott W. Michael, from his book on essential to know aquarium fish on page 197:'' It can be kept in small groups in a medium sized tank with plenty of hiding places.''Demoiselle should not be kept with hughly aggressive species, including more punacious damselfishes'')What are some not so aggressive, but vivid and active alternatives to damsels, that would not conflict with the above list?.

I am really reconsidering the Regal angel, b/c after finding a thread about them here, the random threads I had seen, where they are well behaved in reefs seems to be an anomoly.

That puts the butterfly back into play.These seem to have fewer reports of being difficult to acclimate/feed and are overall less likely to decimate zoanthids and such.I really think, with well thought out feeding, this will be fine with the wrasses and all will have plenty of food, since IME with the leopards and fromw hat I've read on the boards about the CBB, even if they decimate the pods population in the display between times when I add fresh from the refugium and my cultures, it won't mean starvation, b/c they do accept prepared food, unlike the mandarin.With the concern being having 5 wrasses, what if I replaced the flashers with a pair of anthias or purple fire fish?

I am considering a pair of bellus angels to replace the two damsels.

it seems the banggais win out over the firefish and yes, I will be sure they are tank bred, as will be the clowns.Truth is, I would let the clowns go fromt he list, but my other half has to have them (damn that finding Nemo movie), it was hell explaining why the hippo tang wasn't going in.

Zaita, I love tangs, but with all of the conflict over tank size, I satyed away from them, plus they are known for really being nasty at times to ANY newly introduced fish.If I did get one, it would be a purple or yellow, maybe a powder blue.Everyone else gets too big or doesn't fit my taste.


Another proposal:
2 perculas or false percs (tank bred)(added as one of the last)
2 banggai cardinals (tank bred pair)(added as one of the last)
2 bellus angels (pair)
1 butterfly marginalis or copperbanded butterfly
5 blackbar or orange striped chromis
3 leopard wrasses(male and 2 females trio)
2 flasher wrasses (pair) (considering anthias as an alternative, but thought these liked cooler water)
1 orange spotted shrimp goby
2 purple firefish(pair)

 

[BangkokMatt]

Your perfect list would not have the butterfly in it, nor the damsels. You have come up with a great suggestion of the pair of bellus angels. Perfect. I really would leave it at that as you are still pushing your bio load. A good list! (but don't add the chromis until later as even without them you will think your tank is busy)
I'm not sure why you want to add the Banggai's and clowns last. The clowns would be the first to go in as the are the more hardy of your selection.
I would leave the anthias for now. They are a more difficult fish to keep (but, for most of them, this has nothing to do with cooler waters).
Final point, don't rush into buying all of your fish. Add them slowly and carefully. If you don't you will cause problems in your tank. Just keeping a few fish is a sight to behold. It doesn't need to be rammed.

 

[flashyleopard]

BangkokMatt, I think I have come to agree with you about the chromis and really think I'll do without them.The bellus angels will provide lots of movement and occupy all levels of the aquarium.This will help with bioload as well.

The reason I wanted to add the clowns and crdinals last is b/c they can be territorial.I wanted to be sure there was minimal chance for aggression.

I agree about not adding fish all at once.My method is to cycle the tank with fresh live rock and sand, add live pods, let the populations grow and assist them by feeding the tank.Get the Nitrates,Nitrites,and Amonia consistently at 0ppm, then add inverts (CUC,zoanthids, LPS,mushrooms, let the system settle and test out again, add more inverts (shrimp,maxima clams,soft corals,sensitive inverts like starfish or anenomes,sps),let the system settle and test out to 0 ppm for nitrogenous waste, then add 2-3 small fish per month and allow them to settle and the system to adapt (all levels staying at 0ppm), and continue until fully stocked. If at any point I can't bring my aitrites,trates,and ammonia to 0, then I will remove fish, unitl I can mantain the parameters. As high as th bioload may seem, I will never get out of hand with this method of slowly adding fish and testing.I typically test out clear for a month, before attempting any more fish.This does not mean that i will continue to add fish, just b/c my system is running well and the parameters are in check, but it allows for some tweaking to get the affect I want and to swap one species for another, b/c there are some fish that need heavier feeding or excrete more waste than others and that influence bioload also.Sometimes a system can handle more than is expected, sometimes less.I think a system is not just about how good one can make with fancy equiptment, sumps, and refugiums, but there is the element of the system itself and the unkowns that dictate how it will pan out in the end.That is why I plan and tweak so heavily now....I don't even have the tank and stand yet, so it is at least a year off, before I add my first fish, but I enjoy the learning and thinking involved in making decisions about the community now.
Other than trying to feed a complex diet and cultureing pods and other edibles, I like a low maitanence and fairly self maintaining system.I like to do water changes to ''freshen things up'', not to remove harmful materials or bring insafe parameters back into check.To me the system, if truly healthy, will manage well on its own with topping off and Ca supplements, and the monthly water change to bring in fresh trace elements, and maybe the odd additive here and there, but I dislike weekly water changes and constant battles with parameters, plague algaes, or diatoms.I like being as close to a closed system as I can and I think that properly set-up and managed, the community I planned will do well and the extra bioload from the slightly high fish population will help feed the zooanxthellae of my clams and corals, rather than create a problem.With a fuge, sump,remote DSB,live rock, live sand, chaeto, a good skimmer, lots of flow, and the fact that my live rock will be off of the substate, will make for a very adequate and healthy reef.

And the same list, now without the chromis:

Current proposal:
2 perculas or false percs (tank bred)(added as one of the last)
2 banggai cardinals (tank bred pair)(added as one of the last)
2 bellus angels (pair)
1 butterfly marginalis or copperbanded butterfly
3 leopard wrasses(male and 2 females trio)
2 flasher wrasses (pair) (considering anthias as an alternative, but thought these liked cooler water)
1 orange spotted shrimp goby
2 purple firefish(pair)

 

[Macimage]

The list looks so much better. However, as you probably know, the butterflies will be hit or miss with regards to being reef safe.

Joyce

 

[flashyleopard]

Hi Joyce.I love your avatar!Is that you?I used to care for horses and did some very basic riding.Horses are so endearing and intelligent.I miss caring for them, but I have lots of fond memories.
The butterflys, from what I read, have far more success stories in regards to being reef friendly, than the regal angel.I actually like the marginalis better, but it may not be available, when my tank is set-up and ready for fish.They are one in the same as far as care and reef safety.I could spare a few polyps or zoanthids here and there, but a coral glutton will be found a new home pronto.

 

[Zaita]

The cardinals won't be territorial unless your adding more cardinals. They very much tend to leave other fish alone.

Percs of Occ clowns are not very territorial either, especially in a 125g and will be fine to go in as your first fish.

As Joyce said, the Butterfly is more than likely not going to be at all reef safe.

You haven't got any shrimps on this list?

Here is what my 125g has, in order of adding and how long after I started tank they were added. This should give you a good idea of bioload.

1 Hippo Tang (Added @ 6 Weeks)
2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (12 weeks)
1 Mated Pair of Coral Banded Shrimp (12 Weeks)
4 Chromis (12 weeks)
2 Scopas Tangs (6 mnths)
1 Wheeler Shrimp Goby (6 mnths)
2 Bangaii (8 mnths)
1 Pair of B&W Occ Clownfish (9 mnths)
1 Yellow Tail Damsel (9 mnths)
1 Copperband Butterfly (10 mnths)

Note, my tank has NO SPS. I don't like coloured sticks, and my CBB would most likely eat them. No Zoanthids, as Hippo Tang ate them.

 

[flashyleopard]

I did not mention shrimp or other specific inverts, b/c, while they count as bioload, I think they are more assets and I don't add them as part of my stocking list as I do with fish. Rest assured, just as I must include a well planned list of fish, my list of invertebrates is also though out. I think blood shrimp will make a nice addition, lots of hermits, a sand sifting star, fish safe brittle stars,maxima clams, snails (haven't looked at them closley enough to know exactly which ones, but no margaritas), abalones, maybe a fighting conch or two, most likely a bubble tip anenome, and perhaps a cucumber or longspine urchin.If a PBT would be a better bet, than that can replace the butterfly, but it would go in last due to potential aggression and I worry about it bothering other fish and being and being prone to contagious ailments.I am not worried about the CBB eating corals, b/c while I know it is a possibility, I think the majority are well behaved, similar to dwarf angels.I think proper feeding and a varied diet will help as well.If it should become a coral devouring vacuum, then I will happily rehome to a capable fellow aquarist.All fish are gamble in some regards, every single fish has the potential to harm corals, cause territory issues, harm other invertebrates, dislodge rock work, die from stress or sensitivity, fight with other fish, disrupt the sand bed, pollute the water, and the list goes on.A fishless reef is not a reef to me and in this case, I'll take my chances on the CBB.

I do not disagree with you and I would greatly appreciate a link to a discussion in regards to people's experiences with them in a reef.Of particular interest, is which corals they do go for, when they do pick on corals and what was being fed and how often in each case of coral predation.


I noticed you have quite a high bioload as well, if not more than me, b/c many of your fish are larger and require more food to be added to the aquarium, where in my list, I try to limit the number of fish that need constant feedings of forozen food and try to stick with fish that can eat live foods, graze from the rock work, and all eat similar frozen foods, rather than having one fish eat this and one eat that...if they all eat the same, chances are it will get consumed and be less likely to pollute the water.Some people would advise against so many tangs in a 125gallon....some would argue against one.I am not critcizeing you, but it just shows that you made decisions based on your experience and the information you have taken in from other sources and while it doesn't agree with everyone's sense of ideal, it works for you or was reasonable idea in your opinion.That doesn't make your wrong, nor does me wanting to gamble on the CBB, what would be wrong, is if neither of asked questions or read up on the requirements of the fish first.In my opinion and informed decision is the only one I want to make and I feel well informed about the potential pit falls with a CBB in a reef.

 

[Zaita]

Not alot of forum discussions around CBB and the ones that do exist are usually titled "Why did my CBB die?". They have a dismal survival rate in captivity, probably only in line behind a Moorish Idol and Mandarin.

I know many experienced reef keepers (5yrs+) who have had no success keeping CBB in mature tanks. While mine has been with me for 3months, I am under no illusion that it may not make 12 months for reasons unknown to me.

You will also find that the "keeping a fish well-fed so they won't eat corals" is kinda an urban myth. I have yet to actually see this work in reality. I tried it when my Hippo Tang started to eat my zoanthids (regardless she has always been VERY well fed) and it made no difference at all. I inquired to a friend of mine (with 10+yrs reefing) and he said his Hippo will also munch corals as it pleases, as will other fish (incl his Regal angel) and no amount of feeding will stop them from doing this.

Your invert list, especially shrimps should influence your fish list. Some fish that would make an awesome addition to a reef (Lionfish, Hawkfish) will eat the shrimp.

Cucumbers, If I am not mistaken, will release a toxin into the water when they die? Someone will have to verify this, but they are not advised. This is something I am not sure on.

I think a tang would be a better choice than a butterfly. It leaves you with more options for corals later on. A PBT is a stunning fish, but I really love Hippo tangs and Scopas Tangs Aggression from a tang is usually towards other tangs, or fish with similar body shapes.

 

[flashyleopard]

PBT, CBB, Leopard wrasses, madarins, lots of commonly available fish have poor survival rates.I believe a lot has to do with the handling of them from being caught to being placed in the home aquarium.I did have tangs on my list, a purple and a powder blue and I was told the tangs were to large for said tank.I mostly sowr off them, b/c the eat ornamenal algae without fail and I sometimes enjoy some plant growth in my aquarium.

I agree with invert choices influencing fish choices or visa versa, but to me, aside from the CUC, the ornamental inverts are secondary to the fish and will be planned around the fish.The cucumbers can release toxins, but a smaller on, suhc as the tiger tail or yellow cucs are used a lot and shouldn't pose a problem in a 125, if they should die, except maybe an ammonia spike, if not caught in time.

With the tangs vs the CBB, it sounds like 6 of one and half a dozen with the other. The tangs may eat coral also, have the tendency to develop ick, can be very sensitive, need lots of room, might prove aggressive to new additions (my friend's yellow tang was evil towards anything new introduced to the tank), and will require the addition of targeted, vegetarian food, and they wille at any and all ornamental algae that isn't calcerous.The CBB may eat corals, and is very sensitive, but if it dies, it is less likely to do so covered in the white plague and thus infecting the other tank mates.

 

[Chibils]

Re: proposed stocklist

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12805498#post12805498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flashyleopard
1 African flameback angel
1 pair of ocellaris clowns (maybe true percula instead)
3 azure or gold tailed demoiselle
3 firefish (maybe purple,but most likely the standard)
1 marginalis butterfly (or maybe a copperbanded)
3 leopard wrasse (1 male and 2 females)
1 pair of McCosker's flasher wrasse
1 green mandarin
1 strawberry or magenta gramma
1 splendid dottyback (Allen's or sunrise as an alternative)
1 bicolor blenny (midas or tailspot as alternative)
1 orange spotted shrimp goby (long ray as alternative)
7 black bar or orange line chromis (green as a last resort)
1 Red Sea regal angel
1 Rainford's goby
1 Twin spot goby

This is how I would do your list. Substitutions are in bold print. Removals are in italics.

• 1 African flameback angel [relatively reef-safe for a Centropyge]
• 1 pair of ocellaris clowns (maybe true percula instead) [A. ocellaris are more docile than A. percula for the most part]
• 3 azure or gold tailed demoiselle [aggressive; will not play nice with others]
• 1 firefish (maybe purple, but most likely the standard) [will not play nice with each other; easily intimidated by wrasses and other aggressive fish]
• 1 marginalis butterfly (or maybe a copperbanded) [make sure they're eating first! not always reef safe]
• 3 leopard wrasse (1 male and 2 females) [make sure they're eating, and ask the lfs/online vendor to bag with 2-3" of sand]
• 1 pair of McCosker's flasher wrasse [great fish]
• 1 green mandarin [way too much competition for pods between butterfly, wrasses, and rainfordi]
• 1 strawberry or magenta gramma [not too up on this fish. same as strawberry basslet/dottyback? if so, remove.]
• 1 splendid dottyback (Allen's or sunrise as an alternative) [natural enemy of wrasses on the reef]
• 1 bicolor blenny (midas or tailspot as alternative) [lots of personality]
• 1 orange spotted shrimp goby (long ray as alternative) [may get lost, but good choice imo]
• 4 anthias [much more likely to get along and more colorful than chromis; afaik, no one has really had luck with anything other than green Chromis viridis; anthias absolutely require qt and deworming; need 2-3 daily feedings]
• 1 Red Sea regal angel [try to get one that's eating]
• 1 Rainford's goby [awesome little fish]
• 1 Twin spot goby [don't know much about them; you may be able to re-add it]

I don't know if the new list is overstocked or understocked (probably over), but I took out all the possible conflicts I saw.

 

[Zaita]

It's not really a 6 of 1 vs half-dozen.

- Tangs and Wrasse may die from being caught, handling. But A mandarin or CBB will most likely die from Starvation. It's easy to feed a wrasse but can be impossible to feed a CBB if it doesn't want to take prepared food.

- Butterflies also need ALOT of swimming room. My CBB is more active than my Tangs and will spend hours racing around the entire tank.

- Angels will demolish your ornamental algae, let alone worrying about a tang. The shrimps will also eat some as well.

- All fish can develop Ich. You should be QT'ing your fish properly. Once Ich is in your system then any fish under stress is likely to get it. My CBB has had it, my BT has had it.

- I wouldn't class a Tang as sensitive, Butterfly much much more so.

- Butterflies can also be aggressive to new additions, much the same as a Tang. However, a Tang is better suited to stick up for itself.

- Targeted Vegetarian Food? Thats a terrible reason, you will find you have to get live food to target feed your Butterfly if it decides it's not prepared to take prepared food, or just stops eating it one day out of the blue (as they VERY commonly do).

The white-plague? Errr you have been seriously mis-informed during some of your research.

White-Spot has a life-cycle of approx 6 weeks. Of which only about 2 weeks need a host fish, and any fish will do. Once you have it introduced into your tank then any fish is capable of carrying it. The best prevention is to not have your fish stressed out.

Also, do a search for "Lymphocytis a virus". This is an almost exclusive Butterfly (most specifically CBB) and some Angel virus.

There is no known cure for Lymphocytis. Cutting or removing the cysts is a risky procedure leaving an open wound exposed to a wide host of bacterias or worst still leaving behind some of the cyst to allow them to grow again.

I am sorry, but you really do need to spend a fair bit more amount of time researching the proposed additions to your tank.

While I think a CBB would be a lovely addition to your tank, none of the reasons for it over a tang are valid. CBBs have a VERY dismal captivity survival rate because people treat them like a normal fish, throw it in, add some flakes and it'll be right.. just like a clownfish. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Each night, I have to ensure that my CBB is able to get some food, and is eating still. This requires feeding my tank with a frozen enriched food every day (3 cubes ensures he gets enough with the other fish) after I have fed a spirulina flake food for the other fish. This doesn't help with the algae because of the phosphates and nitrates added. As for feeding my tangs, they can graze at algae off the rocks for days (if not weeks) with no problems. I also spend time each day watching my CBB graze at live zooplankton from the rockwork (200lbs) and ensure that he isn't going to decimate the overall population.

 

[Zaita]

Re: Re: proposed stocklist

Re: Re: proposed stocklist

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12813559#post12813559 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chibils
(Allen's or sunrise as an alternative)

Allen's damsel is an awesome addition. I absolutely love our one and am fascinated by it's ability to change it's colour from a dark grey to a very very bright fluro blue. Awesome personality and peaceful too, a nice fish all round imo.

 

[flashyleopard]

''CBBs have a VERY dismal captivity survival rate because people treat them like a normal fish, throw it in, add some flakes and it'll be right.. just like a clownfish. Nothing could be further from the truth.''


And the above staement, does not include me at all.I am well aware of the specialized feeding needs of the butterfly and I am no more likely to have failure than anyone else.

As far as the tangs:
target feeding the butterfly meaty food or live foods is in sink with the other fish in the reef, as they all eat the same.

The tangs require the additional of vegetation soley for their benifit alone, given that the flameback angel may eat some.

My experience with centrotype angel is that they ignore most macro algae and only eat that which is offerede as food or that grows as a film on the rocks and glass.....certainly a far cry from the 70% or better portion of tangs diet being veggies.

Virtually all fish can be said to carry ick, but some tangs are more likely to become infected for nurmerous reasons. The use of the term ''white plague'' was a dramatization, not a blaring example of my lack of research.All of my fish will be quarentined and selected from reputable and as ofet as possible, local places.I outlined my intended pace for introduction and I allow lots of time for system stability and quarentine.

I have planned for ample swimming room with the way I plan to lay out my live roack.My point with the remark about tangs needing room, is many are ill advised in anything less than a 75 gallon and most are rated for a 135 gallon or larger.I have never heard of the CBB police in regards to housing them in standard aquarium set-ups.I do not have any reason to doubt they are more active than your tangs, in your set-up.As a general rule though, it accepted that tangs are more needy of a larger set-up and in your case, your tangs may be causing subtle stress to the CBB, causing it to swim laps around the tank.

I have also mentioned my intentions of having live food cultures up an running and being a year out, before adding any fish.In no way have I given the impression, that I will be out tomorrow, dumping my new CBB in a goldfish bowl and feeding it goldfish flakes.Also, I mentioned 2lbs of liverock per gallon, that would be 250lbs of rock for the CBB to seek the regularly augmented supply of pods and small shrimp it needs to be happy and healthy.

In regards to the CBB coming down with Lymphocytis, sure, it could happen, and admittedly, I have yet to hear of this illness until now and so I thank you.I stand by my different strokes for different folks philosophy and I hope you can accept that you have provided me the information you feel was important for me to know, and it is up to me to apply it.I will not be bullied into feeling ignorant or less capable, b/c we disagree on some points.I am on here to learn and bouncing my ideas off of the people here is a way to do that.I have taken everyone's concerns and advice in stride and have not been argumentatove or resistive to help.I really feel you have begun to brow beat me for no reason over the CBB and I am sorry, if I anger you. There really is no cause for you to be angry at all.You need to think of yourself in my shoes.I am sure when you read everywhere that tangs should be in this size and that sized aquarium, you made up your own mind, and took the information with a grain of salt as is obvious by your stocking choices with the tangs in your 125 gallon.I don't bring that up to back you into a corner and say you did anything wrong.....the point is, I have the right to make my own decision, based on the information available to me and how I interpret that information to relate to my situation.If I was snubbing your advice and arguing against the facts that the CBB is sensitive and requires monitoring or its feeding, then I could see your reasoning for being so heated, but I have only expressed my own ideas and never once disagreed with anything you said, other than my OPINION that a CBB is more desireable to me than a tang.Only I can decide what I desire and it will differ from what others would choose, that's why we all have our own tank to stock.:mixed:

 

[Moonstream]

Zaita, it sounds like you are talking about a blue devil damsel. and let me asure you, they are called blue DEVIL damsels for a reason. they do not play nice with others.

 

[Zaita]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12813854#post12813854 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flashyleopard
''CBBs have a VERY dismal captivity survival rate because people treat them like a normal fish, throw it in, add some flakes and it'll be right.. just like a clownfish. Nothing could be further from the truth.''


And the above staement, does not include me at all.I am well aware of the specialized feeding needs of the butterfly and I am no more likely to have failure than anyone else.

Unfortunately, the above statement does include you, it includes myself too, and everyone else who keeps or has kept a CBB/Mandarin or other specialized fish.

My primary food source for my tank is Spirulina Flake. The only 2 fish that do not eat this are my Male Bangaii (female does) and my CBB. All other fish happily accept this. And as it doesn't foul the water as bad as frozen and is very nutritious it's an ideal base food for my fish. Frozen is only fed because of the fussy fish. I also use Nori on a clip for the Tangs, but the damsel will also eat this, as will other fish (incl Angel)

Your going to be feeding frozen meat as a primary food source for your tank?

I have never heard of the CBB police in regards to housing them in standard aquarium set-ups

Do a poll, to see who has a CBB and how long they have had it. Then do a poll and see who has HAD a CBB and how long before it died. The sad truth is that they die, and even with the best intentions and best environment they can still just stop eating for no reason and die.

Virtually all fish can be said to carry ick, but some tangs are more likely to become infected for nurmerous reasons.

Some tangs are prone to becoming stressed easily. Stressing a fish is a fast way to lower their immune system and let them show signs of an Ich infection. Same with a Butterfly.

I am sure when you read everywhere that tangs should be in this size and that sized aquarium, you made up your own mind, and took the information with a grain of salt as is obvious by your sticking choices with the tangs in your 125 gallon

I didn't so much make up my own mind. I researched each fish extensibly, including required space, habitat, feeding and the room each would require. After which I would consult a long-time reefing friend of mine and discuss with him my acquisition of said-fish. I usually learnt more in 5 minutes talking to an experienced reefer than reading for 5hours on forums and websites. Only if he was comfortable with my decision would I actually acquire the fish.

My CBB purchase was a very hesitant one. I spoke with 2 reefers who have been doing this for 10yrs+ (both with 400g tanks) and a few reefers in the 5yr experience level. I also spent many many hours researching techniques to train the CBB onto prepared food, and how it'd go with my other tank inhabitants. Only once my CBB hits 12mnths in my tank will I be satisfied that I have provided it with a suitable environment to live.

I was fortunate in that the 10yr+ reefers had both previously (unfortunately they had died) kept CBBs. So I was able to inquire as to specifics of feeding and care.

In no way have I given the impression, that I will be out tomorrow, dumping my new CBB in a goldfish bowl and feeding it goldfish flakes

While this idea may seem amusing to you, and even myself. This is the sorta situation alot of fish like CBBs and Mandarins end up in. You only have to spend 6-12mnths on these forums and count the number of posts that start with

"I bought X (very difficult) fish and the LFS told me it eats flakes, but now at home it won't eat anything" followed 7days later with "The fish died".

I am by no means getting angry etc with you. I am trying to ensure that the information you are learning (and will be using) is going to be fair and accurate. Not for my sake, or yours, but for the fish. Nobody can fault me for offering advice (albeit It may come across as harsh) that may prevent another fish fry dieing through someone not knowing how to care/prepare for it properly. I myself have received some harsh advice when setting up, and I am thankful for it, and happily will accept it if that means I may prevent even 1 fish from dieing in my tank.

I apologize if I come across as angry, but it really should be the fish's health first.

 

[Zaita]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12813879#post12813879 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Moonstream
Zaita, it sounds like you are talking about a blue devil damsel. and let me asure you, they are called blue DEVIL damsels for a reason. they do not play nice with others.

Nope. Definitely the Allens Damsel.
My Yellow-Tail Damsel can also change his color at will too. He can go from a Charcoal to a light blue.

Edit: Blue Tang and Scopas tangs also can change colour

 

[flashyleopard]

I do understand your intentions, but your argument seems to be against keeping the CBB in gerneral and less about ME keeping in the set-up I have described and that is okay.
I acclimated, rehabilitated, and bred a very difficult species of chameleon for three years.In that time, I was the only person documented in the world to have bred them to the second generation.That would seem like to some, but for me, it was still failure, b/c for every one that was healthy, there were three, that despite exhuberant vet cost and huge enclosures, all the given knowledge available, were always sick or died.Only 1O% make it past 30 days in captivity.Please check out www.melleridiscovery.com to see them and learn about them.
My point is, there are some species that just aren't suited to life in captivity and in spite of everything, will die. The flip side is that, no one can hope to over come those odds, without trying and that means dead fish along the way.Now if informed and educated people are buying CBBs and trying very hard to care for them properly and they die, that is the price of learning...as ugly as it is.I get the same way about reptiles when I hear of the ways people keep them, the things they feed them, and what the local pet store tells them.While this fish might best be left in the ocean, it is available and will continue to be, so what says I have any less of a right or chance to try my luck at one?I have given a sound argument for how I intend to meet its dietary and space needs.I have outlined the ways I hope to maintain healthy parameters and I really think we are less at odds than you think.i don't disagree with you about the difficulty involved in keeping one, but I still want one.As it was with the leopards, I have to try them to know I can't and you know what, I could and did with the leopards and the melleri chameleons.I too, consult an experienced reefer friend, who has had aquariums since I was in the 6th grade, makeing that.....14 years...yikes !!! He advised me to get the CBB, before I even expressed an intertest in them.He was in awe of my former set-up 7 years ago,b/c it was unique and full of red bubble seaweeds and halimedas...it was great and it didn't fit any modern code for safe stocking levels or good equiptment, but I had a good idea what i was doing and it worked out.

And yes, I do intend to feed mostly frozen foods in combination with the live foods I will be offering as the base for most of the fish.Please read back and note my intended means of monitoring and controlling water quality...I think you will find, I have a good handle on the whole concept.

No hard feelings and I am not trying to be maddening or argumentative.

 

[Zaita]

Na man it's fine I am glad you understand the advice I am trying to give. Lets hope someone else will read this and perhaps research some more about the fish they are going to keep.

I must say, I have always found the Chameleon to be a very interesting creature. Unfortunately, NZL is very very strict on Biosecurity so we don't get the luxury of having access to any animal we'd like to keep (even alot of marine fish are not allowed. No Lionfish at all! can't even get hermit crabs of peppermint shrimps).

As for your live foods. I'd suggest buying a couple of bottles of Tigriopus (Tigerpods is their retail name) as a good benthric species, and getting some live rock from another reef that will most likely have some pelagic species that will propriate in your tank. Mysis shrimp is also a good addition. Again wonderful stuff we cannot import, but have to source locally ourselves.

Snds like your not setting up for a while, so plenty more time to research. Lets hope your other half is ready for the obsession and cost lol