Purple Tang HLLE Help

offshored

offshored

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Had a 2 1/2 - 3" purple tang in a 20 gallon long QT setup while waiting for our 240 to be ready.

He had been fine for about 3 weeks and noticed two days ago that he started to get HLLE.

Had dots along his lateral line and his face was discolored on both sides.

The tank had about 10 lbs of live rock in it and was in a very dim area with no natural sunlight. I was feeding him nori 2-3 times a week and a marine mix frozen food between that.

Yesterday I moved him to a 40 gallon tank with around 50-60 lbs of live rock, more flow and lots of sunlight.

I'm going to start giving him nori everyday and also add the marine mix some days in addition. Also will be adding Zoe, Marine C and garlic to his food.

He seems happier in this new setup. Do you think it's enough?

Any other suggestions are really welcomed :)
 
Poor Food, Stress, and electricity in the water are typical causes. Sounds like you have the food covered, with a larger tank and liverock the stress should go down.
 
Thanks Alton :)

Also read that sunlight is very important. He was pretty much living in a cave in the last setup...
 
Also what degree should he recover? The lateral line marks are very faint. The face is greyed out in the front. I wouldn't say too bad, need to look close to see the face is lighter.
 
I don't think there is anything that HASN'T been blamed to cause HLLE. The latest is carbon residue. HLLE isn't (usually, cma) dangerous to the fish or others. it almost always disappears with Pristine water, good diet & vitamins (vital, IMO&IME) and time. The time can be longer than you'd like. I love PTs and have 3, two got a nasty case of HLLE a few years ago and it completely disappeared in 43 days. (I keep a lot of notes) Don't worry about the HLLE until the QT regimen is complete; they was a guy on this forum who was so concerned about HLLE that he introduce his fish (can't remember species) into his DT after a couple of weeks in the QT. The worst that could happen, did.
BTW, I think many tangs really show exaggerated symptoms of HLLE at times and they recover quickly. PTs, and other Zebrasoma genus tangs, seem to very often have some lateral line stuff going on when new and still acclimating.
 
I don't think there is anything that HASN'T been blamed to cause HLLE. The latest is carbon residue. HLLE isn't (usually, cma) dangerous to the fish or others. it almost always disappears with Pristine water, good diet & vitamins (vital, IMO&IME) and time. The time can be longer than you'd like. I love PTs and have 3, two got a nasty case of HLLE a few years ago and it completely disappeared in 43 days. (I keep a lot of notes) Don't worry about the HLLE until the QT regimen is complete; they was a guy on this forum who was so concerned about HLLE that he introduce his fish (can't remember species) into his DT after a couple of weeks in the QT. The worst that could happen, did.
BTW, I think many tangs really show exaggerated symptoms of HLLE at times and they recover quickly. PTs, and other Zebrasoma genus tangs, seem to very often have some lateral line stuff going on when new and still acclimating.
 
Thanks :)

I just have the problem of overreacting any time anything happens to a fish.

Either way I think he'll be a lot happier if I fatten him up a bit, has more flow, and he has more room and rock to explore.
 
Here are two pics.

One two days ago in the 20 gallon.

The picture with the rock is in the 40 gallon this afternoon.

Think he'll be ok with vitamins, more food, more room, etc...?
 

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Also this is the only tank running carbon in the filters.

Last time I put new filters in, they seemed very dusty. I rinsed them off in RODI but there was still dust.

Last night I ripped the carbon out of the filters. Looks like I got around 95% of it out.

Hope that helps as well :)
 
offshored said:
Also this is the only tank running carbon in the filters.

Last time I put new filters in, they seemed very dusty. I rinsed them off in RODI but there was still dust.

Last night I ripped the carbon out of the filters. Looks like I got around 95% of it out.

Hope that helps as well :)
Click to expand...

From the little info available; I think it takes quite a while for carbon to cause (and a big) "IF" it causes it. Accounts are purely anecdotal. Just for info: It sounds like you're using HOB filter pads sandwiched with carbon. If so, this carbon is worthless and you may as well remove it all. If you want carbon, use a good GAC. There is no reason to use carbon in a QT, except to remove meds.
 
MrTuskfish said:
From the little info available; I think it takes quite a while for carbon to cause (and a big) "IF" it causes it. Accounts are purely anecdotal. Just for info: It sounds like you're using HOB filter pads sandwiched with carbon. If so, this carbon is worthless and you may as well remove it all. If you want carbon, use a good GAC. There is no reason to use carbon in a QT, except to remove meds.
Click to expand...

Yeah the filter I'm using on the QT tank is a HOB with two filters with carbon in the insides.

Not really my first choice for a filter lol :)

I'm going to start the 55 as a holding tank for new fish and use a big Eheim with live rock rubble in it instead.

The purple doesn't look like he's getting worse BTW, maybe even a little better.

Having done the following seems to have made him happier:
- Bigger Tank
- Tons more natural light
- More Nori (food in general)
- More Flow
- More Live Rock
- Removed Carbon
- Upped Vitamins

Hopefully in 3-4 weeks he'll be a lot better and be ready to be introduced to the 240 with the Yellow Tang at the same time. Would hate if he wasn't 100% to be introduced to the Yellow.
 
This is a classic case of HLLE caused by carbon. The timing is spot on, and the carbon used in filter cartridges is the same that has been implcated.

Here are links to the abstracts of the two papers:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08997659.2011.608608

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15222055.2011.635781

Of course, the sbstracts don't tell the whole story, and you have to be careful applying their information without reading the full article.

Here is a non-peer reviewed paper that implicates dissolved organic carbon:
http://www.columbuszoo.org/drumcroaker/pdf/2012.pdf#page=28


Bill
 
Thanks Bill

That's the only tank I've ever used carbon in. I had a baby yellow bellied blue tang in that tank before... but the filter in there was pretty old. Ran through 2 other QT periods without tangs. I was doing weekly 25% water changes, and mainly wanted the HOB for the bio wheels, also had lots of LR in the tank so I thought of the filters as being bonus filtration. (NOTE: More a holding tank, only treated with Prazi).

I got new filters when the purple was put in there.

Either way, seems that time and a better environment and more food should fix the problem :)

Hopefully can move all my existing livestock and the purple to the new 240 in around a month. Seems like the established live rock I bought and have been curing for weeks and weeks and weeks is ok. About 60 lbs of that rock is in with the purple now and he seems fine with it. Has had 0 nitrites and amonia for weeks now as well. Guessing the cycle time should only be 2-3 weeks and I'll put in the CUC and some shrimp at that time. Move the fish a week or two later :)
 
offshored said:
Also this is the only tank running carbon in the filters.
Last time I put new filters in, they seemed very dusty. I rinsed them off in RODI but there was still dust.

Last night I ripped the carbon out of the filters. Looks like I got around 95% of it out.

Hope that helps as well :)
Click to expand...


Bingo!
Get rid of that carbon....immediately if not sooner....like you have done.
Now give that purple a little TLC and it will recovery most likely.
 
Seems like nothing has really changed, which I guess is good.

Do you think I should put him in the DT in 4-6 weeks? I really wanted to get the purple and yellow into the 240 at the same time.

Does the HLLE need to be completely healed, or should he be OK in the DT if he's eating like a pig and the HLLE seems to have stopped?

Also... maybe one more smoking gun. This purple was the only fish I've ever purchased that was treated with copper. It was treated before I bought it BTW.
 
let him get 100% before bring him into your DT tank or you will end up at the bottom .. it does take some time for them to heal up totally from HLLE .. just feed him alot of crushed garlic and nori and it will come around ..
 
bluewater921 said:
let him get 100% before bring him into your DT tank or you will end up at the bottom .. it does take some time for them to heal up totally from HLLE .. just feed him alot of crushed garlic and nori and it will come around ..
Click to expand...

Should I hold off adding the yellow then? I mean can't HLLE take 3-4 months to heal?
 
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